19 réponses à ce sujet

[Ithurael]

So....we all know this is a "fun topic" but do you think Bioware would have been better off having Shepard and co gathering Crucible assets vs Military assets?

 

I mean, I am sure most people were expecting - when they looked at the war asset console - to see the Destiny Ascension (providing they saved it), Krogans, Geth ships, Quarian Ships, etc charging against the reapers etc...

 

But that never happened.

 

So, my query that I pose is should Bio have just implemented Crucible assets on the console? I mean the whole point of the game was to use the Crucible to stop the reapers. Thus, if we just have the player focusing on building up their crucible (which determines how what choices are available and how they play out) do you think this would have caused a lesser sh*t storm? Do you think it would have worked better than what we got?

 

IDK...I'm just rambling...

[shodiswe]

I do think they could have implemented it better. They could have made it more interesting in the endgame. In the end the War assets mostly came down to a very generic number that tells you which variation you got. But it was very minor.

They could have added some interesting choices that would have played out on the battlefield in the endgameplay. The battle on earth, while the maps were kind off ok, the content with mostly hordemode enemies and little else killed the fun of it.

The war assets could have come into play or at least have been heard from a little bit more, and added to the difficulty where having no assets would have made it pretty much impossible.. Something you wouldn't have been meant to pass in case you did.

[ImaginaryMatter]

Pretty much, yes. It's a weird to have a game repeatedly tell you about the assurance of failure for any conventional strategy, yet largely center the game around gathering such resources for such an attack. I think the game would have been better if it was centered around trying to gathering assets to build the Crucible in a race against time -- instead of gathering assets and have some of them labeled 'Crucible' with a side of meaningless techno babble. The central missions would have been built around constructing the Crucible versus collecting whatever military force for whatever military reason.

[Alamar2078]

I wouldn't mind having "engineering", "military", and "special ops" types of buckets for EMS.  While I think that could result in improved gameplay in the last levels it would have added complexity -- if implemented well it would have been a very nice addition -- if implemented poorly I don't want to talk about how bad the results could have been.

 

Military assets could be obvious like Krogan foot soldiers, "naval" assets, Elcor tanks, and similar sorts of conventional assets.  Being able to "call in reinforcements" during the levels [kind of like Dragon Age: Origins] would have been cool.

 

Engineering assets could be applied to how well the Crucible was constructed physically, what type(s) of options would be available to you, what sorts of negative side effects may go along with each type of activation, etc.

 

Special Ops could give you Biotic reinforcements, being able to sabotage enemy troop transports, bombarding enemy fortifications, perhaps [control-style] turning enemies on each other, setting off alarms elsewhere to divert enemies, etc.

[Valmar]

I mean, I am sure most people were expecting - when they looked at the war asset console - to see the Destiny Ascension (providing they saved it), Krogans, Geth ships, Quarian Ships, etc charging against the reapers etc...

 

But that never happened.

 

While I do agree with the rest of your post this bit confused me a bit. Maybe I'm not understanding you correctly but yes, that did happen. Those things are war assets. Unless I'm misunderstanding something.

[Cobwebmaster]

I thought the general idea was to (a) build the Crucible and ( accumulate military resources to enable it to be implemented with extreme prejudice. Given a "more the merrier" objective, the greater the assets harvested the better the likely outcome with the least collateral damage. I can see a case albeit a minor one, for having a greater analysis of the type of resource acquired but without a strategic or tactical plan to implement them it sorta don't work. The problem in connection with the final battle is that the game moved towards a "sh*t or bust" frontal assault against capital ships and ground forces using inferior numbers? Without getting into too many tactical discussions there were not a lot of other options available, considering the defence network but given that the object of the exercise was harvesting throwing all our organic eggs into one basket (the citadel) wasn't good contingency planning for one and the Earth campaign could have stood with a little more thought and work. I thought London had a good subway system and of course the Thames. I take it reaper ground forces weren't good swimmers, and it would be difficult to run under water for husks. Who gets to drown? 

[Alamar2078]

@Valmar:  I assume the OP wanted to see the assets play a more active role in the Retake Earth levels of the game, cut scenes, etc.  I assume he'd have liked to have seen us call in Krogan reinforcements for example to help fight off the "horde mode" enemies in the last levels of the game.  Maybe see us tactically arrange some of our naval resources / etc.

 

As it was all the resources were was just a passive "number" that enabled variations in the endings available to us.

 

I'm not sure if I'm making sense to you but I recall this being one of the early complaints about how EMS was handled.

[Valmar]

@Valmar:  I assume the OP wanted to see the assets play a more active role in the Retake Earth levels of the game, cut scenes, etc.  I assume he'd have liked to have seen us call in Krogan reinforcements for example to help fight off the "horde mode" enemies in the last levels of the game.  Maybe see us tactically arrange some of our naval resources / etc.

 

As it was all the resources were was just a passive "number" that enabled variations in the endings available to us.

 

I'm not sure if I'm making sense to you but I recall this being one of the early complaints about how EMS was handled.

 

I get what you're saying and I agree completely. Though he said we don't see those war assets even though we do see them. Pretty awesome scene, imo, watching all those ships relay jump in during the last push. Again though I could be misunderstanding his argument here.

[Alamar2078]

I believe a more "active" [player controlled or influenced?] role would have been preferred by the OP.  Honestly though I imagine only the OP knows for 100% sure what they are referring to.

[Ithurael]

I get what you're saying and I agree completely. Though he said we don't see those war assets even though we do see them. Pretty awesome scene, imo, watching all those ships relay jump in during the last push. Again though I could be misunderstanding his argument here.

 

 

Sorry sorry...just got back from the gym and had a programming glitch that took me a few hours to fix.

 

Ok..

 

Yes. What I was hoping for when I meant Active was that they would have a larger role in P:E. Like we would get gameplay changes based on either our EMS (The map changes, more/less monster density, new areas/few areas, etc). While we did get that opening cutscene, we don't really get anything beyond that.

 

Save the Rachni == what game play changes in P:E?

Have 6000 EMS vs 1000 EMS == What game play changes?

 

From what I heard, bio wanted to have like 4 priority earth maps or at least 4 ways to get to the beam depending on EMS.

 

Sorry if I was not clear.

[shodiswe]

Sorry sorry...just got back from the gym and had a programming glitch that took me a few hours to fix.
 
Ok..
 
Yes. What I was hoping for when I meant Active was that they would have a larger role in P:E. Like we would get gameplay changes based on either our EMS (The map changes, more/less monster density, new areas/few areas, etc). While we did get that opening cutscene, we don't really get anything beyond that.
 
Save the Rachni == what game play changes in P:E?
Have 6000 EMS vs 1000 EMS == What game play changes?
 
From what I heard, bio wanted to have like 4 priority earth maps or at least 4 ways to get to the beam depending on EMS.
 
Sorry if I was not clear.

I'm more dissapointed in Priority earth than the Catalyst part tbh. In my first playthrough as I was moving towards the beam I was thinking... Maybe this is where it starts gettign good, this horde mode has been quite boring so far.... Then it hit me.. No it didn't get better, instead my charater just started limping painfully slow.

I might have been ok with that, if priority earth would have been more interesting and inspired. I don't think they finished up Priority earth, they just shipped it with an Alpha or Beta map and hodemode enemies.
It wasn't a worthy endgame to a good game or trilogy. Other parts of the game were more interesting. ME2 end mission which some people complain about, was more interesting with the choices you could make when you had far less war assets.

[Ithurael]

I'm more dissapointed in Priority earth than the Catalyst part tbh. In my first playthrough as I was moving towards the beam I was thinking... Maybe this is where it starts gettign good, this horde mode has been quite boring so far.... Then it hit me.. No it didn't get better, instead my charater just started limping painfully slow.

I might have been ok with that, if priority earth would have been more interesting and inspired. I don't think they finished up Priority earth, they just shipped it with an Alpha or Beta map and hodemode enemies.
It wasn't a worthy endgame to a good game or trilogy. Other parts of the game were more interesting. ME2 end mission which some people complain about, was more interesting with the choices you could make when you had far less war assets.

 

Personally I think they just screwed the pooch with the Suicide Mission...there was no way they could top that in the short development time they had for ME3

[Vazgen]

Rachni inclusion is one of my biggest gripes with ME3. They only send these guys to assist with the Crucible! No soldiers, no ships, only those. And your choice of saving the queen is thrown into a trash bin. Reapers create a rachni queen themselves (like they have nothing else to do)! They should've at least removed all the Ravagers from the game and locked the mission away for characters that killed the queen. No Grunt cameo for you, sorry, but no Ravagers either. And the Rachni should've provided about 200 EMS. 

[ImaginaryMatter]

Rachni inclusion is one of my biggest gripes with ME3. They only send these guys to assist with the Crucible! No soldiers, no ships, only those. And your choice of saving the queen is thrown into a trash bin. Reapers create a rachni queen themselves (like they have nothing else to do)! They should've at least removed all the Ravagers from the game and locked the mission away for characters that killed the queen. No Grunt cameo for you, sorry, but no Ravagers either. And the Rachni should've provided about 200 EMS. 

 

Plus, that would have made a fairly inexpensive implementation that would've carried the most impact (by far) of any decision in the game.

 

For Grunt, since he and whatever company would have had nothing else to do they could show up somewhere else in the Genophage mission.

[dreamgazer]

Hackett outright tells Shepard, and thus the players, that everything going towards military prowess is only a delaying action for building the Crucible.

[Alamar2078]

@DreamGazer:  What you say is true but I'm not sure why you're bringing the point up??  Having sub-categories under EMS or at least having EMS play an active [as opposed to passive role] would have been cool if you could keep the implementation from getting too difficult to handle.

[Cobwebmaster]

I get what you're saying and I agree completely. Though he said we don't see those war assets even though we do see them. Pretty awesome scene, imo, watching all those ships relay jump in during the last push. Again though I could be misunderstanding his argument here.

 

I get what you're saying and I agree completely. Though he said we don't see those war assets even though we do see them. Pretty awesome scene, imo, watching all those ships relay jump in during the last push. Again though I could be misunderstanding his argument here.

I fully support the right of the individual to be shallow and venal!

[Larry-3]

I would have listed it like this...

Military Assets
• Systems Alliance
• Salarian SGT
• Turian Empire
• Asari Republic
• Batarian Hegemony
• Dell and Hanar
• Volus
• Elcor
• Quarian Flotilla

Paramilitary Assets
• Asari Commandos
• Omega originization
• Citadel Security
• Illium Law Enforcement

Freelance Assets
• Mercenaries
• Smugglers
• Blockade runners

Civilian Assets
• Militia's
• Donations
• Volunteers
• News Reporters
• Ex-cerebus

Crucible Assets
• Scientists
• Engineers
• Technicians
• Crucible equipment

Technology Breakthroughs
• R&D Labs
• Non-Alliance
• Reverse Engineered

[Geralt of Relays]

Here is where a lot of Mass Effect’s story/character/mechanics problems come from:

 

While making Mass Effect 1, Bioware didn’t give any thought to what they would be doing for Mass Effect 2, and while making Mass Effect 2 they also didn’t give any thought to what they’d be doing for Mass Effect 3. The lack of planning & writing is what broke this trilogy, it have been unreasonable to expect them to have all the detailed nailed down, but the basics of the whole story had to be in place to make it properly work.

 

Looking back at it now, prologues & a couple of smaller stories aside you could reasonably say that the events of Mass Effect 1 & 2 would actually fit better if you switched them the other way round. Then it plays out as you investigate & destroy these Collectors, find out they are merely servants of more powerful overlords. ME2 you discover those overlords are Reapers and save the Citadel from attack, get humanity on the Council. ME3 carries straight on from that, and you need to assemble some quick ass alliances to counter the Reapers. Seems to make much more sense that way, but as I said a lack of any planning prevented the production of the best story & game mechanics possible.