23 réponses à ce sujet

[Kalshane]

This isn't a DA:I sucks thread, as I've been enjoying the game, but I miss having the option of being able to lie to people, or intimidate them or otherwise convince people to do things for me.

 

For that matter, I miss having the ability to avoid certain fights by talking my way out of it. In DA:O we could choose between having a silver-tongued hero at the expense of extra points in the "more practical" skills.

 

In DA:I it seems the Inquisitor's conversation skills are limited to picking the "right" dialogue options. I think it would be interesting to play an Inquistior who flat-out doesn't believe in any of this Maker/Andraste stuff, but has the option of "playing along" to get what they want. I realize you can kind of do that in DA:I by pretending your Inquisitor doesn't actually believe what they're saying, but it's not the same.

[In Exile]

No. While I love good persuade options, the DAO approach was exactly what you describe DAI to be: an auto-win option.

[NoForgiveness]

No. I like the idea of being able to lie and stuff. But the persuasion thing Is just a "press this option to get a better result" thing.

[Elhanan]

I believe those things are already included on the Dialogue Wheel, though it might be nice if some of the Attributes could offer bonuses depending on class (eg; Willpower for Mages adds bonuses to persuasion options). This might add an incentive to select a Perk outside the usual choices.

[Captain_Obvious]

No, if you take the first perks (nobility knowledge, arcane knowledge, I forget the names of the others), it opens up new conversation options that sort of fill the persuasion role.  Pretty useful, actually.   

[Elhanan]

No, if you take the first perks (nobility knowledge, arcane knowledge, I forget the names of the others), it opens up new conversation options that sort of fill the persuasion role.  Pretty useful, actually.

Truly? The description had only listed the bonus XP, so I skipped all of these in my first campaign. Thanks!

[In Exile]

Truly? The description had only listed the bonus XP, so I skipped all of these in my first campaign. Thanks!

Yes. You can use them to recruit agents and it does change a part of the one MQ quest a bit.

[gay_wardens]

No. I like the idea of being able to lie and stuff. But the persuasion thing Is just a "press this option to get a better result" thing.

 

Not true. You're sacrificing a skill like Survival or Combat Tactics.

[Dgyre]

Yes, I really enjoyed being able to develop a diplomatic character.  It wasn't about 'auto-win' at all, it was about a character who can find other solutions, or accomplish great feats with their speech.  Even if lying, how convincingly can they lie?  Like any other skill, it has to be developed, trained..  I miss being able to make that the focus of a character, now either you have the option built in or you just....Inquisitor SMASH....

 

Or even others like naturalism or animal ken....  a Dalish Keeper should be able to get the Great Bear in the Emerald Graves to leave, not have to kill it.

[Lee T]

It's a nice idea to have a possibility to fail a persuasion attempt but when it's through perks it is autowin and when it's through skill roll it's kinda down to luck.

i would prefer they took a cue from more inspired system based on gathering information prior to the actual persuasion and choosing the right rhetoric based on the opposing character. Deus Ex HR and Alpha Protocol had some fun ideas about how to win a talk "fight".

[Dgyre]

I love the Dues Ex persuasion convos

[CronoDragoon]

It's a nice idea to have a possibility to fail a persuasion attempt but when it's through perks it is autowin and when it's through skill roll it's kinda down to luck.

i would prefer they took a cue from more inspired system based on gathering information prior to the actual persuasion and choosing the right rhetoric based on the opposing character. Deus Ex HR and Alpha Protocol had some fun ideas about how to win a talk "fight".

 

Deus Ex has the best persuasion system I've played. From what I've heard Pillars of Eternity has an interesting one as well, based on stats but whether it will lead to a good or bad result depends on the situation (allegedly).

 

Whatever happens we need to stay as far away from a Paragon/Renegade type system as we can. There's no reason not to up-right/up-left if available.

[Zjarcal]

Not true. You're sacrificing a skill like Survival or Combat Tactics.

That was hardly a sacrifice though...

I liked how the Inquisition perks could open up that kind of solution myself, also like for some to be hidden in the "special" part of the dialogue wheel, only showing up if you fulfilled certain requirements. Don't miss the persuasion skill at all really.

[In Exile]

Not true. You're sacrificing a skill like Survival or Combat Tactics.

LOL. It's hard to decide which of those two is more worthless. I guess survival since some people use tactics rather than micromanage. Even if these skills didn't suck it's a party based game. Sten can get 4 ranks of each.

[Lee T]

From what I've heard Pillars of Eternity has an interesting one as well, based on stats but whether it will lead to a good or bad result depends on the situation (allegedly).

Obsidian was also behind Alpha Protocol, this system used a variety of interesting stuff for persuasion :

- your past actions weighed in
- you could allways choose between three types of rhetoric to which each NPC reacted differently.
- the files you found (codex) opened up new dialog options (for exemple you could know a NPC was lying because you had the relevant information in your files, if you actually took the time to read it, which opened the possibility to confront him about it).
- depending on your goals, befriending every one isn't allways the best option. One of the major NPC for exemple could only be killed during your first confrontation if you antagonised him enoug durig your prior conversation (making him lose his cool). The same NPC could be befriended only if you found enough files to convince him of your professionalism.

They do have good ideas, unfortunately all their games have been flawed gems up to this point.

[metatheurgist]

Yes. I hate that I have to rely on companions to convince the agents for me (the perks don't really indicate that function until you have them). I also hate that there is no opportunity to convince a companion that disagrees with you to stick with the decisions you make even if they don't like it.

[Feranel]

Truly? The description had only listed the bonus XP, so I skipped all of these in my first campaign. Thanks!

 

It says it opens up dialogue options based on their specialty.  These function exactly like persuasion in DA:O, just relegated to being based off specific areas of expertise.  Instead of having to take 4 points in persuasion to be able to pass max persuasion encounters, you have to take 4 points in "dialogue/codex" to be able to pass all possible persuasion encounters.

 

They didn't get rid of it, they just changed it to be lore specific.

[Frenetic Pony]

Not really, it just felt like the obligatory "Get this skill to unlock the better conversation option!" Skill that I always felt the need to get. Which is a double "not gameplay" option. It's not interesting to get, because your PC is the only one that can get it, and the resulting dialogue options are always "just do the better thing now!"

 

So no, I'm glad its gone. It's not gameplay. Even if people want the effects that might come with it, just let those options be there automatically, not as a skill I have to spend a point on.

[Soul Of Men]

Miss it? LOL

 

 

No.

[Kalshane]

It never felt like an auto-win to me because sometimes it was more advantageous to just duke it out. (Or in the case of a certain cookie-loving Templar, funnier to let your companions convince him) Conversation just seems rather limited in DA:I as there's no situations I've encountered where you can talk your way out of a fight (or talk your way into one, for that matter). Everyone either attacks you on-sight, or occaisionally talks to you first and then attacks you, regardless of you actually say. Besides that, the fact that you can never try to BS or intimidate people just bothers me.

 

While the various Lore options are nice, they're based on knowledge rather than your character's ability to be convincing.

 

Survival (on your Warden specifically) was needed for the sick halla quest, though I admit there wasn't much other use for any of the other skills if you weren't playing a Rogue.

 

Ideally, it would be nice to have the skills brought back in general, but modified with each having a purpose for your character to take them, so it really is a trade off. Persuasion makes you better at talking to people (and if you do manage to solve a situation non-violently you still get XP for it) while maybe Survival gives you combat bonuses against "natural" creatures and the ability to spot hidden areas in the wilderness or maybe increases hide drops from creatures killed to reflect your ability to skin them more efficiently. Herbalism not only lets you makes potions, but increases the yield of any plants you harvest and the possibilty of finding seeds. Etc, etc. Give us several skills to choose from along those lines to customize our character to our preferred play-style.

[Elhanan]

LOL. It's hard to decide which of those two is more worthless. I guess survival since some people use tactics rather than micromanage. Even if these skills didn't suck it's a party based game. Sten can get 4 ranks of each.

I liked both; Survival for Nature Resist bonuses and Red dot info, and Combat Tactics to allow for more AI options.

Thing is, generally selected the same Skills every time, so I do not mind their indirect inclusion into Attributes for DA2. And now we have Perks, and seemingly with more versatility than I knew.

[errantknight]

I miss just about everything about the origins trees and abilities, but I'm afraid persuasion is one of the few that I think in better handled here. You can get additional dialogue choices with perks and  that's a better way to go, imo. That doesn't mean the effect of persuasion can't be there, but it should bome out of dialogue chosen or specialized knowledge that conversation gets you, rather than what amounts to a jedi mind trick.

[Dabrikishaw]

I do miss it, largely because I still don't know every dialogue option the 4 knowledge perks unlock, so taking them for anything other than experience boosting felt off to me.