542 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

It seems pretty factual to me to say that, currently, appealing to men's sex drives is more common and accepted in marketing practices, no?

[Artyoan]

I did and the articles paint a much more complex picture than the simple argument that men's sex drives are higher. Anyway, what is the point of saying that men's sex drives are higher? How is that relevant?

It was answering a question someone asked for. Not that difficult to understand.

 

Also, if you have an interest in psychology, which you claimed to, you ought to do an in-depth researching of nature vs nurture as well as blank slate theory (which is dead).

[DaemionMoadrin]

http://www.webmd.com...n-women-compare

 

Also, as some of the discussion pertained to earlier, it is a very valid question to ask what men and women want. While you always need to take in mind the characteristics of an individual, men and women share plenty of differences and tendancies aside from eachother.

 

Webmd? Seriously? ...

 

My nursing and biology professors would slap me and kick me out the door if I used Webmd as a reference.

 

Yeah. That.

 

That article doesn't fully support your argument. It talks a lot about how women's sex drive is more complicated and influenced by different things. Perhaps if it weren't for social restrictions, women's sex drives are at the most basic level just as high as men's. Also, why does that even matter to this discussion?

You need to actually read the studies upon which the article is based.

 

There are no studies linked in the article. Not that it's necessary because the article neither confirms nor refutes the argument.

 

I did and the articles paint a much more complex picture than the simple argument that men's sex drives are higher. Anyway, what is the point of saying that men's sex drives are higher? How is that relevant?

 

It's relevant because Liveshiptrader said that women don't like seeing naked men as much as men like seeing naked women. Or something like that.

 

 Sort of why I'm wary of posting links, it wouldn't actually be hard to find a source that says it one way or the other

 

No, if you find a scientific study that has gone through the peer-review process, then it would support your argument. But you can't find one.

[Maverick827]

Brothel DLC with desire demon hiding in the basement, everyone wins?

 

Don't tempt me with desire demon DLC.  Now I have to go through the list again...

 

1.  Appears as a male to characters currently romancing a male companion

2.  Appears as a female to characters currently romancing a female companion

3.  Appears as a wealthy merchant or noble to characters who selected "greedy" or "power-grabby" options in previous quests

 

etc....

[Feranel]

Don't tempt me with desire demon DLC.  Now I have to go through the list again...

 

1.  Appears as a male to characters currently romancing a male companion

2.  Appears as a female to characters currently romancing a female companion

3.  Appears as a wealthy merchant or noble to characters who selected "greedy" or "power-grabby" options in previous quests

 

etc....

 

"Choice. Spirit."

 

Need an option for min maxer extremists, gives you x numbers of levels/perk points, looks like a big talking book.

[whitless256]

Brothel DLC with desire demon hiding in the basement, everyone wins?

 

Choice. Spirit.

 

Beaten to it!

[Skalish]

No, if you find a scientific study that has gone through the peer-review process, then it would support your argument. But you can't find one.

There is an interesting thing about scientific studies being used for internet arguments.  Most scientific studies are in publications that are locked behind paywalls in various online research database.  So most of the time you can't link to the study.  Even if you as an individual have access to it you can't provide that access to someone else. Sometimes you can link to its abstract and header information but that is usually it.

Usually the best you can do is linking to an article somewhere that references or talks about the study.  That has its own pitfalls though because then you are depending on the ability of the writer to accurately understand and report the results and implications of the study.  A task that they unfortunately sometimes get wrong in both large and small ways.  This is compounded by the fact that often writers will use another article as a source instead of tracking down the original source and evaluating it themselves.  So mistakes or misunderstandings can be propagated in that way.

So sadly many internet arguments are not going to be able to be referenced very well.

[Artyoan]

Webmd? Seriously? ...

If you don't want to read or do a basic google search for biological differences in sex drives between men and women you could just.... go out and have a social life.

 

This is one of those questions most people don't need to ask.

[alwaysquestions]

These are my thoughts on what the topic is about.

http://forum.bioware...2#entry18227158

http://forum.bioware...3#entry18228336

http://forum.bioware...9#entry18232793

 

Ok so here's what C9 wrote:

 

Just so I'm sure I'm following, the thesis of this thread is that those mean nasty feminists forced Bio to make the women in DA:O unsexy? Am I getting this right?

 

And here's quotes from you:

 

"The female characters available for romance in DA:I are not generally considered to be attractive.  They are generally considered to be plain to ugly."

 

"I don't think it is idle speculation that this is a result of pressure on Bioware from some individuals and groups to portray women more realistically in Bioware games."

 

The rest of the text is mostly you elaborating on why you think each one of your points is true, and you justifying why you think this:

 

"I disagree with this stance"

 

Maybe your reasons are more "pure" and your opinions more nuanced but how is your complaint not exactly what C9 said?

[Eivuwan]

It was answering a question someone asked for. Not that difficult to understand.

 

Also, if you have an interest in psychology, which you claimed to, you ought to do an in-depth researching of nature vs nurture as well as blank slate theory (which is dead).

 

When did I advocate a blank state theory?

[DaemionMoadrin]

There is an interesting thing about scientific studies being used for internet arguments.  Most scientific studies are in publications that are locked behind paywalls in various online research database.  So most of the time you can't link to the study.  Even if you as an individual have access to it you can't provide that access to someone else. Sometimes you can link to its abstract and header information but that is usually it.

Usually the best you can do is linking to an article somewhere that references or talks about the study.  That has its own pitfalls though because then you are depending on the ability of the writer to accurately understand and report the results and implications of the study.  A task that they unfortunately sometimes get wrong in both large and small ways.  This is compounded by the fact that often writers will use another article as a source instead of tracking down the original source and evaluating it themselves.  So mistakes or misunderstandings can be propagated in that way.

So sadly many internet arguments are not going to be able to be referenced very well.

 

Yes, that's true. I'm usually able to find something on the sites of universities though.

 

If you don't want to read or do a basic google search for biological differences in sex drives between men and women you could just.... go out and have a social life.

 

This is one of those questions most people don't need to ask.

 

My dear Artyoan. I read the entire article. I meant to express my surprise that someone would use Webmd as a source for anything. -I- know about these things and I asked Liveshiptrader for proof of his earlier statements. It is not my fault that you butted in and answered, although I thank you for the effort. I hope this cleared up this little misunderstanding.

 

The next time you try to insult me with personal remarks, could you try to be more original and funny please? Thank you.

[Eivuwan]

It's relevant because Liveshiptrader said that women don't like seeing naked men as much as men like seeing naked women. Or something like that.

 

 

No, if you find a scientific study that has gone through the peer-review process, then it would support your argument. But you can't find one.

 

To be really accurate, any single research study cannot support an argument. You will need to find multiple studies replicating the exact finding. As to men enjoying seeing naked women, there are naked women in some romance scenes and Vivenne's boobs. There are also naked men. So I am still not sure what the original argument about sex drives was aiming at.

[Artyoan]

When did I advocate a blank state theory?

Did I say you did? I'm recommending reading on blank slate theory because you insinuated the differences are purely as a result due to manipulation from society or some sociological explanation. That its a learned behavior.

[Artyoan]

My dear Artyoan. I read the entire article. I meant to express my surprise that someone would use Webmd as a source for anything. -I- know about these things and I asked Liveshiptrader for proof of his earlier statements. It is not my fault that you butted in and answered, although I thank you for the effort. I hope this cleared up this little misunderstanding.

 

The next time you try to insult me with personal remarks, could you try to be more original and funny please? Thank you.

I'm linking webmd because it was an easy article to convey to anyone who would want to know and a simple answer to a simple (and settled) question.

 

If you don't like webmd, google it. Facts don't change just because we didn't provide you an adequate link. I provided you a starting point.

[Liveshiptrader]

Yes, that's true. I'm usually able to find something on the sites of universities though.

 

 

My dear Artyoan. I read the entire article. I meant to express my surprise that someone would use Webmd as a source for anything. -I- know about these things and I asked Liveshiptrader for proof of his earlier statements. It is not my fault that you butted in and answered, although I thank you for the effort. I hope this cleared up this little misunderstanding.

 

The next time you try to insult me with personal remarks, could you try to be more original and funny please? Thank you.

I thought you may have trouble with unverified sources and unfortunately that's the best I have access to. With the exception of the odd post in a newspaper that says it could be equal, the majority of sites say that men have a stronger drive, they want it more often. 

[whitless256]

The trolling is strong in this thread.

[RShara]

I think we all need to veer drastically back on to topic.

[Skalish]

Ok so here's what C9 wrote:

 

Just so I'm sure I'm following, the thesis of this thread is that those mean nasty feminists forced Bio to make the women in DA:O unsexy? Am I getting this right?

 

And here's quotes from you:

 

"The female characters available for romance in DA:I are not generally considered to be attractive.  They are generally considered to be plain to ugly."

 

"I don't think it is idle speculation that this is a result of pressure on Bioware from some individuals and groups to portray women more realistically in Bioware games."

 

The rest of the text is mostly you elaborating on why you think each one of your points is true, and you justifying why you think this:

 

"I disagree with this stance"

 

Maybe your reasons are more "pure" and your opinions more nuanced but how is your complaint not exactly what C9 said?

Here's the thing, I'm not going to be responding to that specific AlanC9 comment further, whether to disprove it or agree with it.  If someone is going to come along and claim to state someone else's argument, especially if done so clothed in language that attempts to impart unstated assumptions and opinions on it, that is usually not an attempt to contribute to a discussion in good faith and is treading perilously close to several logical fallacies.

Something similar can be done as a method to to gain clarity.  For example, "As I understand it you are claiming X, is this correct or have I misinterpreted your meaning?"  When this happens it is typically done in conjunction with further statements that are attempting to express the opinions or views of the person asking the question.  This was not the purpose of AlanC9's comment though so I'm not going to give it the kind of consideration I would give a comment that genuinely was made for that purpose.

Edit:  And as other posters have stated this topic is getting more and more off topic so that is going to be my last statement I'm making regarding that.  But if you have any disagreements with or questions about my more on topic posts I will do my best to reply.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I'm linking webmd because it was an easy article to convey to anyone who would want to know and a simple answer to a simple (and settled) question.

 

If you don't like webmd, google it. Facts don't change just because we didn't provide you an adequate link. I provided you a starting point.

 

You are still misunderstanding. I do not need a starting point, nor do I need facts or knowledge or anything. I have all these things already and don't need to google it, thank you. 

I was asking Liveshiptrader for evidence for his statements, which he can't provide because his statements aren't correct.

 

Everything clear now? Good.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I think we all need to veer drastically back on to topic.

 

I agree.

 

Although I am pretty sure that got answered in detail already: There is no agenda or conspiracy. BioWare didn't remove the overly sexy women because someone might get offended, they changed them to be more realistic for story purpopes.

[Feranel]

I agree.

 

Although I am pretty sure that got answered in detail already: There is no agenda or conspiracy. BioWare didn't remove the overly sexy women because someone might get offended, they changed them to be more realistic for story purpopes.

 

Though I still think it's clear that they removed healing because it offends a large group of consumers who work in health care auditing.  

 

Dual wield warriors were an offense to rogue special interest groups.  "Dey tuk er jerbs."

[whitless256]

 

Dual wield warriors were an offense to rogue special interest groups.  "Dey tuk er jerbs."

 

And on top of that "dey tuk er dog" too!  I want my Mabari!

[DaemionMoadrin]

To be really accurate, any single research study cannot support an argument. You will need to find multiple studies replicating the exact finding. As to men enjoying seeing naked women, there are naked women in some romance scenes and Vivenne's boobs. There are also naked men. So I am still not sure what the original argument about sex drives was aiming at.

 

That is correct. I was gambling on the fact that not a single study would provide the necessary proof though.

[alwaysquestions]

Here's the thing. I'm not going to be responding to that specific AlanC9's comment further, whether to disprove it or prove it.  If someone is going to come along and claim to state someone elses argument, especially if done so clothed in language that attempts to impart unstated assumptions and opinions on it, that is not an attempt to contribute to a discussion in good faith and is treading perilously close to several logical fallacies.

Something similar can be done as a way to attempt to gain clarity.  For example, "As I understand it you are claiming X, is this correct or have I misinterpreted your meaning?"  When this happens it is typically done in conjunction with further statements that are attempting to express the opinions or views of the person asking the question.  This was not the purpose of AlanC9's comment so I'm not going to give it the kind of consideration I would give a comment that genuinely was done for that purpose.

 

You know, fair enough, this is getting off topic anyway and we should end this discussion. However I am left wondering what would be a short, sentence or two summary of your opinion.

 

I present a lot and hear a lot of presentations and I've never seen anyone unable to give an abstract of their research. So no matter what opinion you have I'm sure you could do it if you wanted to.

[Saphiron123]

If anything I think the opposite is true... The best thing in da2 were the somewhat beastial and frightening qunari, the double horns, the twisted foreheads, they were awesome.

Now they're all pretty and human. Damn shame really, I wanted an arishok style inquisitor.