542 réponses à ce sujet

[ronri]

I thought Sera, Leliana and Josephine were very "classic" beauties. If you mean that they lack sex appeal, I would disagree. Skin-tight clothing and/or naked skin is not required for a person to be sexy. (Frankly, the way the women in this game walk/run is rather.... swishy... if you take my meaning.)

[RShara]

OP, would you fix your topic title?  It's driving me nuts (sorry).  Should be "Were" not "where."

[Darkly Tranquil]

(Frankly, the way the women in this game walk/run is rather.... swishy... if you take my meaning.)

The way the women walk/run in this game is something not quite human; like some sort of alien species attempting to mimic human movement. Bioware really need to invest in some mocap.

[Liveshiptrader]

I thought Sera, Leliana and Josephine were very "classic" beauties. If you mean that they lack sex appeal, I would disagree. Skin-tight clothing and/or naked skin is not required for a person to be sexy. (Frankly, the way the women in this game walk/run is rather.... swishy... if you take my meaning.)

 

I won't lie, I like skin tight clothing and a bit of bare skin, but even then with exception of Leliana who isn't a love interest and dresses like a nun they are not classic beauties. Jospehines problem may be her dire outfit, imagine Morrigan in that.

[Liveshiptrader]

OP, would you fix your topic title?  It's driving me nuts (sorry).  Should be "Were" not "where."

 

You''ll live and be stronger for it.

[Heathen Oxman]

With all the complaining about women being "ugly" in this game, I'm hard-pressed to think of any of the males as "attractive."

 

Solas...Iron Bull....Cole.....Cullen......ugh!

 

Never been happier to be asexual.

[Thiefy]

I feel like this post is very relevant to this thread.

[alwaysquestions]

With all the complaining about women being "ugly" in this game, I'm hard-pressed to think of any of the males as "attractive."

 

Solas...Iron Bull....Cole.....Cullen......ugh!

 

Never been happier to be asexual.

 

Seriously, Dorian is the only really attractive companion in the game and even his face has some humanizing touches to it.

 

It seems to me they shifted the character art style across the board to "more realistic", so what lobby is lobbying for that? People for unattractive people in gaming?

[tmp7704]

Vox Draco
 
I detect a dissonance here. First you are glad that females are no longer presented as physical, sexual objects. Then you proceed to complain that Blackwall and Cole are unattractive.

Read the whole post before jumping to conclusions next time. The explanation of supposed "dissonance" is just couple sentences later, in the same paragraph even:

"So much for some kind of agenda against females looking less good in this game...it obviously goes both ways."

[Kallas_br123]

well it is a fact that bioware, maybe not as a whole, but surely some head writers, drank the kool-aid of extreme feminism, and SJW's agenda in general.

I may be wrong but I saw several posts in these forums stating that David Gaider is a SJW's so not surprising.

The inclusion of too much politically correctness BS is slowlyng going too far.

 

 

Sorry bad english

[Liveshiptrader]

I feel like this post is very relevant to this thread.

 

Despite what the poster said it is the same, they are asking for something to suit there particular taste, I had no stake in those romances but I agreed with them some time ago because I empathized and assumed that most would prefer fictional romances that end on a high note despite the fact that there are those that prefer tragedy.

 

They argue that attractiveness is a matter of taste but that has many faults, it is and it isn't, there can be a large variation on what people find attractive, Liara and Miranda are very different and then there are some traits that are close to universal.

[AlanC9]

OP, would you fix your topic title?  It's driving me nuts (sorry).  Should be "Were" not "where."

Copyeditor OCD. I've got it too.

[Sartoz]

 Big Snip

------------

 

I am not here to debate about the subject nature of beauty, I am just here to inquire to whether a conscious choice was made on whether or not some of the female characters should not have a certain look.

Only the EA/Bioware Division Studio would know the answer. Perhaps Laidlaw as the Artistic Director can answer your question.

 

There is the appearance that the Dorian character was given more time to develop both in dialogue and cut scenes. Certainly I found him to be intelligent, has much to say and is made to look like an Adonis. Was that at conscious effort to promote the male Dorian at the expense of the female Cassandra?

 

Take Sara, as an example. Both the artists and writers work together to come up with a "visualization" of her character.  To me, she looks more like a human than an elf (facewise). Plus, her mouth is to wide. Yet, both artists and writer(s) agreed that is what she looks like.  Personally, she could me made more elfin and beatiful but her speech and lack of education ( she is very smart streetwise) eliminates her from any possible attraction.

 

Take Cassandra. Very beatiful looking in DA2. Did she need to be aged or given those face scars in DAI? I say no. During Varric's interrogation, she came across as a forceful Seeker Commander. Had Command Presence to spare.,. So why age the character that much? I see no reason, especially when Leliana aged so little and kept her beauty.

 

 

This is a fantasy game. Why not add physical beauty as a character attribute? There is enough uglyness in the real world as it is that I don't need to see it in a game.

[AlanC9]

You say ME1 got awful inventory system?
 
You clearly didn't play DA2. And DA: I.

I thought DA2's inventory was way better than ME1's. Not quite as good as ME2's, but that was too good to last.

(Anyone up for a massive derail? We could turn this into a debate about CRPG traditions.)

[Thiefy]

Despite what the poster said it is the same, they are asking for something to suit there particular taste, I had no stake in those romances but I agreed with them some time ago because I empathized and assumed that most would prefer fictional romances that end on a high note despite the fact that there are those that prefer tragedy.

 

They argue that attractiveness is a matter of taste but that has many faults, it is and it isn't, there can be a large variation on what people find attractive, Liara and Miranda are very different and then there are some traits that are close to universal.

Right.

 

...aaaand the part about "Bioware is doing it on purpose to fulfill an agenda!?!!1111"

 

 

Between all the ME and DA games they've give you plenty of sexy looking women and women who were easy going about sex. Maybe this time around they just wanted to tell a different story.

 

I mean you don't have to like the options, but the whole pity party over "Bioware doing it on purpose" when it's just ONE game (as opposed to an established over a few series) deserves an eyeroll.

 

PS. Also very ironic that the "group" who would be interested in "better female LIs" use Morrigan as an example of what they'd like more, turn around and comment on how ridiculous she looks as Keiran's mother and needs to cover up.

[Heathen Oxman]

Seriously, Dorian is the only really attractive companion in the game and even his face has some humanizing touches to it.

 

It seems to me they shifted the character art style across the board to "more realistic", so what lobby is lobbying for that? People for unattractive people in gaming?

 

Bingo!

 

Precisely.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

I thought DA2's inventory was way better than ME1's. Not quite as good as ME2's, but that was too good to last.

(Anyone up for a massive derail? We could turn this into a debate about CRPG traditions.)

 

ME2 inventory? Can I has a screenshot of that, please?

:SSSHH EVERYONE:

[scrutinizer]

Read the whole post before jumping to conclusions next time. The explanation of supposed "dissonance" is just couple sentences later, in the same paragraph even:

"So much for some kind of agenda against females looking less good in this game...it obviously goes both ways."

Read the entire thread before jumping to conclusions.

The topic was created with female characters in mind, as the noticeable trend continues to make them less aesthetically stereotypical. It was never the case with male characters - there never was an agenda regarding males, therefore, I find comparing the two sides (male-female) irrelevant. And since we talk about aesthetic beauty, praising Bioware for a more neutral depiction of females, while complaining that males are not attractive stands in contrast - nevermind the agenda and whether it goes both ways - it's has no relevance to the stance 'good that females are not boobs on a stick anymore, but shame that males are damn ugly.'

[AlanC9]

ME2 inventory? Can I has a screenshot of that, please?
:SSSHH EVERYONE:

Looks like the derail's on, eh?

Yeah, I'll take zero inventory over loot any day. My favorite PnP RPGs aren't about loot. ( In a couple looting is outright impossible, since all your PCs abilities have to be paid for with the character's points.) It's regrettable that CRPGs descend from the bad parts of PnP RPGs rather than the good parts.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Looks like the derail's on, eh?

Yeah, I'll take zero inventory over loot any day. My favorite PnP RPGs aren't about loot. ( In a couple looting is outright impossible, since all your PCs abilities have to be paid for with the character's points.) It's regrettable that CRPGs descend from the bad parts of PnP RPGs rather than the good parts.

So you say you prefer NO INVENTORY IN A PARTY-BASED RPG?

 

You are amazing. You are definitely the picture of a person that DA: I is meant for.

[AlanC9]

This is a fantasy game. Why not add physical beauty as a character attribute? There is enough uglyness in the real world as it is that I don't need to see it in a game.

Games are escapism, yeah. But I guess it depends on what you're trying to escape from. I'm not trying to escape from not everyone in my life being a supermodel, myself. Escaping from the meaninglessness of my own life is quite enough for me.

[Maverick827]

It's fairly obvious that the game had a vision (since people for whatever reason attach a negative connotation to the word "agenda") of trying to buck some of the criticisms of the current "feminism in gaming" movement. Offending internet feminists is bad business these days; it would be illogical for any company not to develop a product with this in mind.

I completely agree with and endorse the ends - a fairer and more equal gaming environment - but I would be lying if I said I wasn't bothered a bit by the means. Bully campaigns against "offensive" products, Twitter riots, the creation of an us-versus-them mentality, the denigration of the "straight white male gamer," oppression olympics, moral grandstanding, finger pointing, shame-based criticism, silencing of opposing positions...I don't know of a better war to enact social change, but that doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with this one.

David Gaider is a very blunt person, and I could definitely see him popping into a "social justice" thread and laying down some hard truths. So maybe we will get a "yeah, we consciously removed X because we thought it would offend Y, wanna fight about it?" some day, but aside from that very specific scenario, most likely we'll get either nothing or PR speak.

[Liveshiptrader]

Right.

 

...aaaand the part about "Bioware is doing it on purpose to fulfill an agenda!?!!1111"

 

 

Between all the ME and DA games they've give you plenty of sexy looking women and women who were easy going about sex. Maybe this time around they just wanted to tell a different story.

 

I mean you don't have to like the options, but the whole pity party over "Bioware doing it on purpose" when it's just ONE game (as opposed to an established over a few series) deserves an eyeroll.

 

PS. Also very ironic that the "group" who would be interested in "better female LIs" use Morrigan as an example of what they'd like more, turn around and comment on how ridiculous she looks as Keiran's mother and needs to cover up.

This reply is to counter these points for anyone else reading rather than this troll of a poster who I want nothing more to do with.

 

Every writer has an agenda, whether it's to make money, write a story,help a cause, etc, I care about this one as it means they may be less inclined to make what I want to buy.

 

Previous games had want I want then others shouldn't? a laughable point to make, we as customers buy these games because we want to, if what we like changed then we move, not continue to support them like a charity.

 

I have no idea what you are going on about in the last point               

[tmp7704]

And since we talk about aesthetic beauty, praising Bioware for a more neutral depiction of females, while complaining that males are not attractive stands in contrast - nevermind the agenda and whether it goes both ways - it's has no relevance to the stance 'good that females are not boobs on a stick anymore, but shame that males are damn ugly.'

The thing is, you are reading the statement about appearance of male characters as a complaint and zomg hypocri- sorry, "dissonance" vs what it actually is in the given context -- an observation that characters of both genders were apparently given the same treatment, which dismisses the OP's paranoid idea BioWare is specifically out to get these poor heterosexual males by selectively denying them the eye candy.

If the poster you're criticizing actually went on record making a request for some "male hotties" or whatever in that post, you'd have a point. But he/she didn't, which pretty much makes you chide them for your own straw man.

[Liveshiptrader]

It's fairly obvious that the game had a vision (since people for whatever reason attach a negative connotation to the word "agenda") of trying to buck some of the criticisms of the current "feminism in gaming" movement. Offending internet feminists is bad business these days; it would be illogical for any company not to develop a product with this in mind.

I completely agree with and endorse the ends - a fairer and more equal gaming environment - but I would be lying if I said I wasn't bothered a bit by the means. Bully campaigns against "offensive" products, Twitter riots, the creation of an us-versus-them mentality, the denigration of the "straight white male gamer," oppression olympics, moral grandstanding, finger pointing, shame-based criticism, silencing of opposing positions...I don't know of a better war to enact social change, but that doesn't mean I have to be comfortable with this one.

David Gaider is a very blunt person, and I could definitely see him popping into a "social justice" thread and laying down some hard truths. So maybe we will get a "yeah, we consciously removed X because we thought it would offend Y, wanna fight about it?" some day, but aside from that very specific scenario, most likely we'll get either nothing or PR speak.

 

Out of curiosity why do you believe it's bad business to offend internet feminists?

 

I would actually like Gaiders view on the matter, whether a product appeals to feminists isn't a concern of mine but I do not oppose that, like the majority all I really care about is whether a product appeals to me so I know whether I should continue to buy it or not.