542 réponses à ce sujet

[hwlrmnky]

I've certainly never seen Software Engineer refer to anything other than programming. If it CAN refer to "design" it isn't the usually understood definition of the word. Every job vacancy I've ever seen for an "engineer" has been purely interested in the programming aspect.

Snip

Me neither, not in the San Francisco-Silicon Valley area. Engineers program here.

[Paul E Dangerously]

Yet 9 out of very 10 threads they make are about physical ​appearance. Just be honest. At the core of this thread, underneath you trying to spin this as Bioware's problem catering to women and these so called 'SJW'; the female LI in Inquisition are just not up to your standards of beauty. 

 

Because surely, there are no straight gamers complaining about PC controls, terrible UI, the quality of the 360/PS3 port, the lack of Bioware response to problems, the awkwardness of the systems in DAI..or any of the billion other active topics.

 

You are wrong.

[Captain Wiseass]

1. It is not Bioware's job to give you something to ****** to.

2. "Sexy" is in the eye of the beholder.

3. Please God, kill me now.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Concerning "internet feminists": The persons complaining about the representation of women in DA:I are surely anything but feminists. Or has that term changed its meaning to misandry now?

[Captain Wiseass]

[Akka le Vil]

I've certainly never seen Software Engineer refer to anything other than programming.

 

Wait, what ? Project managers (which are definitely software engineers) can often ending barely touching any code and instead bothering with architecture, management, deadlines and pile on pile on numbers requests from the higher-ups. I've a colleague who is nearly in open revolt because she's sick about not having done any programming for months actually
 

[Liveshiptrader]

I agree that straight gamers should be able to air their grievances. 

 

Yet 9 out of very 10 threads they make are about physical ​appearance. Just be honest. At the core of this thread, underneath you trying to spin this as Bioware's problem catering to women and these so called 'SJW'; the female LI in Inquisition are just not up to your standards of beauty. 

 

I doubt people would mock you if you made a thread about disliking Cassandra because she is too religious or Josephine is worried about being poor when she is nobility.

 

But it's the same cycle every.single. time. Just spin under a different web of entitlement that you want prettier females.  

 

 

Straight,male gamer make  points about game mechanics all the time, do you think all those other threads are just women and gays?

 

Very few of us have declared that we are straight male gamers but you assumed many of us where because you believe that males like pretty girls, you realize this yet still whine and complain when they ask for what they like.

 

You have been insulting and accused many of us of lying when we have been upfront about the fact that we like pretty female love interests. 

 

You pretty much admit that you mock men simply for liking pretty girls, I don't care what you're reasons are, I've never been ashamed of liking the female form, |I'm just annoyed at how often points are shouted down by people who think it is shameful.

[tmp7704]

I really hate that it's okay to mock straight males on these forums but no one else.

If i'm mocking anything, it's specifically the attitude of climbing on the cross the moment things become more evenly handed and no longer in certain group's favour, that used to be taken for granted. Aka

This should not be treated as mocking straight males, unless you for some reason believe all straight males act this way. But that'd be quite obviously incorrect.

[Abyss108]

Wait, what ? Project managers (which are definitely software engineers) can often ending barely touching any code and instead bothering with architecture, management, deadlines and pile on pile on numbers requests from the higher-ups. I've a colleague who is nearly in open revolt because she's sick about not having done any programming for months actually
 

 

I can't imagine how a Project Manager (for a programming project) could do his/her job without knowing how to code. They might not get to do a lot of coding themselves, but they definitely know how to do it. So, yes, a project manager would be a software engineer (or capable of being one) as they know how to code.

 

A project manager, trying to manage people coding, would be awful at their job if they didn't understand what the people they were managing were doing.

[Akka le Vil]

I can't imagine how a Project Manager (for a programming project) could do his/her job without knowing how to code. They might not get to do a lot of coding themselves, but they definitely know how to do it. So, yes, a project manager would be a software engineer (or capable of being one) as they know how to code.

 

A project manager, trying to manage people coding, would be awful at their job if they didn't understand what the people they were managing were doing.

Ah yes, of course you need to know how the things works - I was only answering about the part that I understood as "they always DO code" ^^

[dekarserverbot]

I agree with you on the first 2 but neither are romance interests. But it is telling that a minor character such as Harding is considered by most to be more attractive than the 3 main female love interests

 

Red Haired + green eyes = HOT.

this formula has been abused since "The parfum:". But overall i see where we are going

 

Cassandra: too virile features, still NOT UGLY, she is just "handsome"

Sera: plain ugly... poor girl

Josephine: come on, she is pretty hot, the only bad thing in her is her buck teeth

[Kallas_br123]

Red Haired + green eyes = HOT.

this formula has been abused since "The parfum:". But overall i see where we are going

 

Cassandra: too virile features, still NOT UGLY, she is just "handsome"

Sera: plain ugly... poor girl

Josephine: come on, she is pretty hot, the only bad thing in her is her buck teeth

Josephine clothes and nose dont help her much. 

[Liveshiptrader]

If i'm mocking anything, it's specifically the attitude of climbing on the cross the moment things become more evenly handed and no longer in certain group's favour, that used to be taken for granted. 

This should not be treated as mocking straight males, unless you for some reason believe all straight males act this way. But that'd be quite obviously incorrect.

 

This has nothing to do with even being even handed, most people don't buy games or watch movies with the foremost thought being that they hope everyone gets equal treatment, they do it because they hope they will enjoy it.

 

Do attractive love interests for male players take away from other's enjoyment? if you do not believe so then you should have no problem with my request.

[whitless256]

I love that we've managed to get half of this discussion going on about the Barbie book.   Derail successful!

 

But back on topic, I think there's a difference between discussing attractiveness vs. nudity/boobies.  I'd find Dorian attractive (even with the mustache) even if I never got to see his ass when I romanced him.  Vivienne would be beautiful without the random boob window in her outfit.  I'm more inclined to support the observation that a lot of guys don't find the female LIs to be particularly attractive than the insistence that they're not showing enough boob.  I think it's a fair observation to make and a fair topic to discuss and I won't fault them for it.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I think the thing is, people get far more personally invested when it's something they can see as a slight against them.

 

It's just really a game element, like anything else. If someone calls armor ugly or terrain ugly or the like, nobody bats an eye. But if it's a character, there's all sorts of possible (perceived?) slights against it that come into play.

 

I've never seen what's wrong with it, really. People bitched to high heaven about how hideous Alistair and Zevran were in DA2, and need I even bring up how badly the elves were trashed? Nobody really came to their defense. Not to the numbers these "Yo, what's the deal with the male love interest in DAI not being attractive' threads have.

[Liveshiptrader]

I think the thing is, people get far more personally invested when it's something they can see as a slight against them.

 

It's just really a game element, like anything else. If someone calls armor ugly or terrain ugly or the like, nobody bats an eye. But if it's a character, there's all sorts of possible (perceived?) slights against it that come into play.

 

I've never seen what's wrong with it, really. People bitched to high heaven about how hideous Alistair and Zevran were in DA2, and need I even bring up how badly the elves were trashed? Nobody really came to their defense. Not to the numbers these "Yo, what's the deal with the male love interest in DAI not being attractive' threads have.

 

To the defense of the designs or to the defense of the people that said they don't like the designs?

[daveliam]

I've never seen what's wrong with it, really. People bitched to high heaven about how hideous Alistair and Zevran were in DA2, and need I even bring up how badly the elves were trashed? Nobody really came to their defense. Not to the numbers these "Yo, what's the deal with the male love interest in DAI not being attractive' threads have.

 

I don't see any problems with voicing complaints about the game.  I think the thing that sets many people off (myself included) with the 'male love interests in DA: I not being attractive' threads is that they are almost always wrapped up in political nonsense about agendas and conspiracies and 'feminists' and whatnot.  If a person simply says, "I don't find either Cassandra or Josephine attractive and I make due in this game, but would like to see the LI's in the next game be more conventionally pretty", I don't see a problem with it.  It's when it comes with all of the other baggage that it becomes insufferable in my opinion.  That's my take on it at least.

[Paul E Dangerously]

I don't see any problems with voicing complaints about the game.  I think the thing that sets many people off (myself included) with the 'male love interests in DA: I not being attractive' threads is that they are almost always wrapped up in political nonsense about agendas and conspiracies and 'feminists' and whatnot.  If a person simply says, "I don't find either Cassandra or Josephine attractive and I make due in this game, but would like to see the LI's in the next game be more conventionally pretty", I don't see a problem with it.  It's when it comes with all of the other baggage that it becomes insufferable in my opinion.  That's my take on it at least.

 

Thing is, there were a lot of threads that said exactly that and still got swamped into oblivion.

[Abyss108]

I don't see any problems with voicing complaints about the game.  I think the thing that sets many people off (myself included) with the 'male love interests in DA: I not being attractive' threads is that they are almost always wrapped up in political nonsense about agendas and conspiracies and 'feminists' and whatnot.  If a person simply says, "I don't find either Cassandra or Josephine attractive and I make due in this game, but would like to see the LI's in the next game be more conventionally pretty", I don't see a problem with it.  It's when it comes with all of the other baggage that it becomes insufferable in my opinion.  That's my take on it at least.

 

This.

 

I also think there's a problem with conversations on forums, because one person might make a reasonable point like above. And then 5 different people agree with that point, but add ridiculous points about evil feminists trying to steal their video games. And then everyone on that side get's lumped together. 

 

It's really frustrating to make a post supporting one side, and then have people argue with me about things OTHER people said. 

[daveliam]

Thing is, there were a lot of threads that said exactly that and still got swamped into oblivion.

 

There probably was some collateral damage in that two week period where there were literally 4 or 5 threads being created each day by people with less than 20 posts.  Threads got shut down pretty quickly then because a new one would pop up within an hour of the last one getting locked.  I suspect that some of them were well-meaning new posters who did exactly what you said.  I also suspect that most of them were either alt accounts trying to troll, inherently rude or abrasive in tone ("My only options are a man and hook-nosed witch with warts"), or were wrapped in the political agenda that I mentioned. 

 

Lately, I have not seen a thread like this pop up that wasn't wrapped in conspiracy angle.  I seriously can't remember the last one that didn't take that approach.

[Akka le Vil]

Red Haired + green eyes = HOT.

this formula has been abused since "The parfum:". But overall i see where we are going

 

Cassandra: too virile features, still NOT UGLY, she is just "handsome"

Sera: plain ugly... poor girl

Josephine: come on, she is pretty hot, the only bad thing in her is her buck teeth

 

No problem with the teeth of Josephine. It's her nose which is imperfect. That being said, she's still rather attractive (though I tend to prefer fair-skinned girls, but well). Cass is really quite a bit TOO butch, and yeah Sera if fugly as hell. And Vivienne too - gargantuan lips and shaved head, urgh...

Leliana is the only "classical beauty", but she's not romanceable - though I don't really mind, it would have been pretty rehashed if she's been. But still, I'd have liked one or two on her level of prettiness
 

[Liveshiptrader]

Thing is, there were a lot of threads that said exactly that and still got swamped into oblivion.

 

 

A couple of reasons

 

One is that many people are more likely to take any criticism of a woman as criticism of women. I said I want attractive female love interests and they then assumed that I only wanted attractive women full stop.

 

I had a discussion and it eventually boiled to the fact attractive women as it makes them feel insecure, that's a point I have nothing against but then it comes to who's lucky enough to get there way.

 

Then simply trolling.

 

You are right on the amount of attacks which is why I had 2 paragraphs about them before I even started. 

[Laurelinde]

It is not impossible that BioWare tried to make sure that they didn't offend some of the very vocal, so called feminists by not putting an obviously sexy female in the game.

Although... a game company that is constantly mentioned because of the LGBT content in their games probably wouldn't care.

If they thought the plot required another Miranda, then they would have added her.

 

I would cut off a limb to be as 'not obviously sexy' as Cassandra.  Or Josie, for that matter.  Crimeny.

 

And I do recall reading something about the designers fighting to keep flaws, physical and character, in the characters to keep them more realistic instead of being blanded down into vacuous airbrushed catalogue models by marketing teams, but it was definitely all characters, not just the women and not just the romance options.  And certainly, things like Bull's 'pillowy man-bosoms' and Cole's odd appearance are commented on in the game, as well.  The closest thing to a Hollywood type is probably Cullen and he's got both a scar and an addiction problem, AND his attractiveness is played for laughs at various points, such as his admirers at the ball and Leliana telling him to 'hush and look pretty'.

[Liveshiptrader]

This.

 

I also think there's a problem with conversations on forums, because one person might make a reasonable point like above. And then 5 different people agree with that point, but add ridiculous points about evil feminists trying to steal their video games. And then everyone on that side get's lumped together. 

 

It's really frustrating to make a post supporting one side, and then have people argue with me about things OTHER people said. 

It's not really a conspiracy when the makers of Divine Divinity where pressured into changing there game cover a few months back because a woman on the cover had a bare torso, someone hide the children.

 

But yes it's ultimately just about having prettier female love interests