118 réponses à ce sujet

[Above Good and Evil]

Seriously, if the procedure just removed the powers and nothing else then a LOT of grief over the series would be dampened: Say someone exhibits magic the Templars could give them the option to have it removed or for the Mage to keep it in exchange for being taken to the cirle with the option to remove it if they dislike Tower life.

That and it seems like a lot of Mages don't even care about their powers; a bunch of them actually complain about it. It's not perfect - there are going to be Mages who want their powers AND to remain free - but a lot would take that offer easy. Also, is it ever explained why tranquility makes Mages robots? Dwarves don't dream but they're expressive enough.

[TEWR]

 Also, is it ever explained why tranquility makes Mages robots? Dwarves don't dream but they're expressive enough.

 

Vaguely. Talk to Dagna routinely. She gives some insight into arcane things, in her own way.

[Nirual86]

I don't think the process is something someone could "fine-tune" to do just that. I'd compare it to something like chemotherapy for cancer treatment: Its not pleasant, but its a way to prevent something even worse.

 

Besides that, the loss of emotion is stated to be quite welcome anyway. It includes the loss of ambition (to try to perhaps regain their power somehow), makes them immune to demonic possession, period (you don't have to be a mage to become possessed, mages are just more dangerous and sought-after), and it even makes them very useful in their own right. At least in the safety of the circles.

[Obvious_Shining]

Isn't that the whole point of the tranquility, taking away their emotions which makes them harmless and immune to possession.

[d4eaming]

I don't think the process is something someone could "fine-tune" to do just that. I'd compare it to something like chemotherapy for cancer treatment: Its not pleasant, but its a way to prevent something even worse.

 

Besides that, the loss of emotion is stated to be quite welcome anyway. It includes the loss of ambition (to try to perhaps regain their power somehow), makes them immune to demonic possession, period (you don't have to be a mage to become possessed, mages are just more dangerous and sought-after), and it even makes them very useful in their own right. At least in the safety of the circles.

 

It's only "welcome" because they are unable to feel any emotion about it.

 

When Karl was made lucid thanks to Justice, he pleaded with Anders to just kill him than let him be like that. How that's remotely "pleasant" I have no idea.

[CrimsonArgie]

The rite is an abomination in my opinion. I think it is better to kill them than to leave them in that state, emotionless. It is extremely cruel to remove everything that makes a human free, leaving just a mindless shell.

[Nirual86]

It's only "welcome" because they are unable to feel any emotion about it.

 

When Karl was made lucid thanks to Justice, he pleaded with Anders to just kill him than let him be like that. How that's remotely "pleasant" I have no idea.

 

I meant more from the perspective of the Templars as a means to neutralize mages they deem dangerous.

 

That said, we can't really tell if every Tranquil feels the same as Karl deep down. I think it might be different for everyone. Seekers apparently don't even realize that they were subjected to it, although only for a short time.

 

One factor I think may matter a great deal is whether the mage wanted to become Tranquil or were at least guilty of doing something evil or if it was more or less forced upon them on a whim, which seems to be the case for Karl. How they are treated after that might also matter, even if they can't visibly express that anymore.

 

With that in mind, its less the Rite itself that is a problem, its the rather obvious abuses of it and the Tranquil themselves.

[hong]

Tranquility is kinda weird. While it ostensibly just removes someone's emotions, ingame it often looks more like giving them a frontal lobotomy. Just treat it as Plot Magic and be done with it.

[EmissaryofLies]

Isn't that the whole point of the tranquility, taking away their emotions which makes them harmless and immune to possession.

 

The point is to cut them from the fade; losing emotions is a nasty side effect.

[Panda]

I don't even think there is need to remove magic. Real threat of magic is possessed mages so somehow demons should be exorcised from the fade.

[raging_monkey]

Its castraightion either way. And its open to abuse

[Colonelkillabee]

Lol well... no ****!

 

Just kidding. Anyway, there's always the seeker cure. I wonder how hard it is to pull this cure off exactly.

[Colonelkillabee]

Exorcising demons from the fade? That's their home. Who knows how many live there. Definitely not a small number. 

Not to mention spirits of all kinds can be demons. The difference between the two is minimal. If there at all. You likely can't get rid of demons... they were here before mortals, and there's a spirit for almost every person that's ever died. Even if that's not true, and it were only half, or a quarter... not counting dwarves of course...

 

That's still HUUUUGE.

[Arlee]

The rite is an abomination in my opinion. I think it is better to kill them than to leave them in that state, emotionless. It is extremely cruel to remove everything that makes a human free, leaving just a mindless shell.

 

Agreed.

 

Spoiler

But then that's also why I gave Erimond that sentence. In his case killing him would have been what he wanted, and jailing him "forever" was too risky. Tranquility is what he deserved.

[Lady Artifice]

The rite is an abomination in my opinion. I think it is better to kill them than to leave them in that state, emotionless. It is extremely cruel to remove everything that makes a human free, leaving just a mindless shell.

 

They aren't mindless though. I agree with your point, but I think the semantics are important. They're capable of thinking and rationalizing.

 

What's strange to me, is that in both the cases I know of, where a victim was "cured" of tranquillity, even temporarily, they were terrified of re-entering the state. However, tranquil will otherwise insist that their condition is agreeable to them. 

 

It all just seems designed to be unnerving. 

[Arlee]

They aren't mindless though. I agree with your point, but I think the semantics are important. They're capable of thinking and rationalizing.

 

What's strange to me, is that in both the cases I know of, where a victim was "cured" of tranquillity, even temporarily, they were terrified of re-entering the state. However, tranquil will otherwise insist that their condition is agreeable to them. 

 

It all just seems designed to be unnerving. 

 

Well Cassandra said in one of her dialogues that it works differently for mages than nonmages, and they don't know why. One of the things she does when she becomes Divine is research how reversing Tranquility can be made safe for mages.

[dragonflight288]

I meant more from the perspective of the Templars as a means to neutralize mages they deem dangerous.

 

That said, we can't really tell if every Tranquil feels the same as Karl deep down. I think it might be different for everyone. Seekers apparently don't even realize that they were subjected to it, although only for a short time.

 

One factor I think may matter a great deal is whether the mage wanted to become Tranquil or were at least guilty of doing something evil or if it was more or less forced upon them on a whim, which seems to be the case for Karl. How they are treated after that might also matter, even if they can't visibly express that anymore.

 

With that in mind, its less the Rite itself that is a problem, its the rather obvious abuses of it and the Tranquil themselves.

 

We have two examples of mages who were made tranquil and cured of it. Pharamond and Karl. And both begged for death than allow it to happen again. 

 

And doing Cassandra's personal quest reveals that every Seeker is made tranquil. She speaks of a year draining herself of emotion in isolation, and when it is over is the most wonderful experience in the world. She only finds out later that when it's over is when she was cured of tranquility by having a Spirit of Faith touch her mind. 

 

She says the experience is incredibly arduous. 

 

This tells me that being tranquil is actually not pleasant at all, but because they lack emotions, they can't really be uncomfortable with it because they have no way of saying if they enjoy something or hate it. They can't feel if something is good or bad, merely use logic because they have no emotional connection to anything. 

[KainD]

I don't think the process is something someone could "fine-tune" to do just that. I'd compare it to something like chemotherapy for cancer treatment: Its not pleasant, but its a way to prevent something even worse.

Lool, unpleasant? Even worse?
I'd die from cancer any day over becoming a tranquil.

[Master Warder Z_]

I'd happily become Tranquil, if only to be a Seeker. It seems worth it.

Agreed.

[KainD]

I'd happily become Tranquil, if only to be a Seeker. It seems worth it.

Yes seekers have a very fun and enjoyable life...

[Colonelkillabee]

I'd happily become Tranquil, if only to be a Seeker. It seems worth it. 

Become a super templar? Yes please. Like spectres.

[StrangeStrategy]

Isn't that the whole point of the tranquility, taking away their emotions which makes them harmless and immune to possession.

It cuts off their connection to the fade, removing their ability to cast spells and invite possession. A Tranquil (As We've seen) can still be possessed, but it would require a whole carefully prepared ritual, not a lapse in judgement / moment of weakness.

As for the people saying the right is an abomination, and using Karl/Pharamond's reaction as proof... That may be true. A normal person comparing their life to a Tranquil life would hate it; But the Tranquil don't hate it. They exist to serve, they're extremely useful and they don't mind what happened to them.

 

[Colonelkillabee]

Yes seekers have a very fun and enjoyable life...

About as fun and enjoyable as anyone else's life in Thedas.