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[ashlover mark 2]

Solas dislikes Grey Wardens for other reasons, history, and the fact that they are now bumbling idiots following Corys lackeys. The thing is I trust Solas partly because I trust Flemeth. I guess everyone should figure out their own theories. Solas asked a magister to power an orb, maybe way back when magisters could be trusted who knows.

 

One thing I don't understand, mages and templars are ripping eachother apart, and it's fine? No-one cares about what Anders has caused, oh wait, it isn't HIS fault. 

 

JEEZ.

Solas was a fool to give his orb to the man himself who ripped open the fade in an effort to gain ultimate power. I mean if Solas really is a true elven god he's not a very intelligent one.  

[YCBself]

BTW - you're aware who empowered Cory to even have lackeys in this game yeah?  Cause it was Solas.

 

Arguably. The Orb gave Cory his shot at the Black City but the rest of his accomplishments rest solo with his own power. Tempting the Templars from Chantry obedience, railing extremist populations in Tevinter, his connection to the Fear demons of the Fade, his ability to use the Blight to influence Grey Wardens etc... The only immediate aspect of his power, iirc, that was intimately tied to the Orb was his pet dragon.

 

Granted the Orb would've allowed him to speed up his plans signifcantly. Or maybe without it as a distraction he would've marched to the Well of Sorrows that much sooner and gotten what he needed without it. Point is Cory was big trouble long before he got his talons on the Orb.

[Lewie]

Many people died because of Solas, fair enough. Many people have died helping the Grey Wardens too. How many blights, armies? Oh! that's fine.

 

I was a Grey Warden and felt GLORIOUS. Damn Bioware, you have your work cut out.

[ashlover mark 2]

Many people died because of Solas, fair enough. Many people have died helping the Grey Wardens too. How many blights, armies? Oh! that's fine.

 

I was a Grey Warden and felt GLORIOUS. Damn Bioware, you have your work cut out.

The difference is those people would have died anyway once the blight finally reached them the wardens just called them to arms. They died to save Thedas. Solas gave his orb to the guy that started all the blights. Again, Solas has no room to judge the wardens for Adamant, none at all.

[TeraBat]

If you judge a character in a game with real life values/morals then you will always have issues. That is not the game, or characters fault.

 

If you slept for hundreds of years and woke up.. would you simply change your whole belief system in a few days to make people happy? 

 

There are multiple ways to approach any piece of artwork, and no single way is any less valid than any other. I could, if I really wanted to, write you a 10 page essay about how DAI is a scathing Marxist indictment of capitalist values and an elevation of the police state and totalitarianism. And then I could write another 10 page essay about how it's actually about the power of communities to come together and solve problems when central leadership fails. 

 

Solas is a complicated character; there are multiple ways to interpret his actions and beliefs. 

[teh DRUMPf!!]

This topic was one of the few where we were actually in agreement.

[Lewie]

The difference is those people would have died anyway once the blight finally reached them the wardens just called them to arms. They died to save Thedas. Solas gave his orb to the guy that started all the blights. Again, Solas has no room to judge the wardens for Adamant, none at all.

The innocent people of Thedas 'would have died anyway'. Yes.

 

I am done. 

[Riladel]

Solas was a fool to give his orb to the man himself who ripped open the fade in an effort to gain ultimate power. I mean if Solas really is a true elven god he's not a very intelligent one.  

I think we don't know all the reasons why he did this, we don't know how he sees world being an ancient god who just recently awoke and maybe not quite understands what is actually going on. But yes, sometimes I think of Solas as a naïve one, but always remind myself - we don't know the whole story and all the motives.

[ashlover mark 2]

I think we don't know all the reasons why he did this, we don't know how he sees world being an ancient god who just recently awoke and maybe not quite understands what is actually going on. But yes, sometimes I think of Solas as a naïve one, but always remind myself - we don't know the whole story and all the motives.

I don't know...Solas is a guy with a great rescource at his disposal; if he didn't use it to learn of Corypheus before he gave him something so important that kind of makes him an even bigger fool don't you think? But you are right we don't know the whole story yet, but given how it's been presented so far, Solas isn't lookin so hot right now.

 

I should probably point out that I don't hate Solas. I just think his Grey Warden bashing is hypocritical.

[Marakov7]

I thought that it was great irony how Solas bitched and moaned about the Grey Warden's "idiocy" while completely ignoring the fact the driving force behind what they were doing in DAI was spearheaded by...mages, yet again. He insisted on putting the blame on the Grey Wardens as a whole rather than admitting that it was mages sacrificing non-mages in order to build a demon army to enter the Deep Roads. To me, it was ludicrous...especially when the deal with the orb was revealed.

 

I sided with the mages and made them allies rather conscripting them because I believe in redemption and felt that they would fight better in that role (even though this is probably just head canon anyway). He was more than all right with that, but freaks out when I take the same approach with the Grey Wardens...hypocrite. He was my main mage up until then...after that, I benched him favor of Vivienne and Dorian. I don't necessarily have a problem with him, but I won't have much use for him on future playthroughs. Just the way I look at it...

[EdwinLi]

While Corytheus is a magister there are hints that the blight may not have been started by Corytheus and his 6 friends but has existed much longer than recorded history.

 

Don't remember which lore in DAI hinted this but it does hint there was far more going on before the Tevintor Imperium than people know about during the time of the Elven Kingdom.

 

Possibily everything we know about DA history may not be true at all considering how DAI hints and twists a lot of plot about how the things we know is not what really happened.

 

Heck people thought the 7 magisters were cursed into Darkspawns but...

 

Spoiler

instead they willing accepted and took in the corruption for its power after they found the Black City.

[Voodoo Dancer]

I got mightily pissed at solus in my first go at the game because of his grey warden bashing , everytime there was any decisions to be made about them solus was disapproving , it began to annoy the hell out of me , so he ended up getting benched pretty quick , no way I was going to burn the wardens while my HOF is still out there doing his thing . at the end I realized id been right to mistrust him and after beating Cory I wish solus became the true end game , I would have been very happy to send him back to his brothers in the beyond or wherever they are locked away

[sylvanaerie]

Eh, flawed character makes him more believable.  Solas isn't a god, no matter what the Dalish believe.  I think the old "gods" were just very powerful beings back in the day, possibly rulers (along the lines of the Pharoahs of ancient Egypt, only the elves had actual magical prowess).  Over time the legends grew and changed, especially since it was handed down by word of mouth.  We've already seen hints the old lore is wrong.  I am certain we will learn more.

 

If for no other reason, having the GWs around makes your Inquisition vulnerable to Corypheus' further influence.  But then I've always been a "keep your enemies close" kind of gal.  

[ashlover mark 2]

Eh, flawed character makes him more believable.  Solas isn't a god, no matter what the Dalish believe.  I think the old "gods" were just very powerful beings back in the day, possibly rulers (along the lines of the Pharoahs of ancient Egypt, only the elves had actual magical prowess).  Over time the legends grew and changed, especially since it was handed down by word of mouth.  We've already seen hints the old lore is wrong.  I am certain we will learn more.

 

If for no other reason, having the GWs around makes your Inquisition vulnerable to Corypheus' further influence.  But then I've always been a "keep your enemies close" kind of gal.  

Solas is an interesting character for sure. I just can't abide trash talk about an order of soldiers who literally give their lives to defend others. Even if they do go extreme every once in awhile.

[KaiserShep]

In fairness, Cassandra is in the camp that favors banishment, as well as Vivienne, and Cass will greatly disapprove if you take them in. I can't remember who approves beyond Sera and Blackwall, but I guess Sera being at Denerim shapes her idea about the Wardens.

[ashlover mark 2]

Iron bull approves. But yeah Solas isn't alone in his belife. I really wanted to smack Vivienne though. "'They're a relic of a bygone age darling."   really Vivienne? Bygone age? I think you meant a relic of ten years ago!!

[KaiserShep]

The approval scrolls by quickly sometimes so I can never quite keep track. It's especially confusing if Josephine, Cullen or Leliana have a reward for me RIGHT AT THAT MOMENT.

[AlexMBrennan]

Maybe because they summoned spirits and twisted them into demons on a mass scale?

Except that Solas dialogue with party members isn't about what the Wardens are doing right now - Solas position is basically "I'd don't have any better solution to stopping the blight from killing everyone, but the grey wardens are wrong for stopping the blight by killing archdemons".

In any case, you are deciding the fate of the wardens who didn't go along with the demon plan (because the inquisitor killed all wardens loyal to that tevinter mage) - the wardens fighting against the hostile demons at Adamant.

[Former_Fiend]

Because Solas believes they are not as important as they are made out to be. Add in the fact that they were willing to do something so horrendous(at least in his mind) of killing the Old Gods to prevent future Blights. He believes they go too far in order to prevent a "what if" future of an Old Gold becoming an archdemon. And if it is true that Wardens are needed to end Blights, then they need to be rebuilt and kept in check and not have as many freedoms to do "whatever needs to be done"

 

That's not Solas' objection. His objection is that he thinks killing them preemptively will make things worse. He also hints at this in banter with Blackwall, asking him what's the wardens' plan for after they've killed the last arch demon; do they think there will be no more blights? Blackwall asks where he's going with this and Solas just gives an unconvinced "I hope they are correct."

[Addai]

I think he also greatly disaproved when I sent that one Warden to her Calling. He actually hated that she'd be killing Darkspawn. He also stated at one point that the Warden's were completely ignorant to the blight & Darkspawn. So it looks like everything we knew about the Blight & Darkspawn from the previous games may be in danger of being thrown out the window with wherever Solas is taking things. And then there's the whole went to the Darkspawn Magister for help first.

I was initially bewildered at how intense his hatred for the Wardens seemed to be. It seemed out of nowhere, atleast outside of the Wardens harming spirits for the ritual. After the Dread Wolf reveal it makes sense he may know more about the Darkspawn than anyone could guess.

About the judgment, she was asking to be used as an example and a warning to other Wardens of what happens when you blindly follow your leaders for the "greater good." I take it that Solas thought doing that would be a good idea, while just sending her off to die doesn't have the same redemptive value. Not that I agreed with him, mind you. I prefer the option (which I think only comes up with the Nobility Knowledge perk?) of sending her to Weisshaupt as a deserter.

 

They aren't throwing out everything we learned about the Wardens. The Wardens have always been shady. When they're not busy trying to save the world, they're busy trying to destroy it. Their secretiveness is also pretty destructive.

[TevinterSupremacist]

My guesses would be

 

-they kill old gods, who might be his long lost cousins or something

-they bound demons

-as he said "they deal with forces they don't understand"

 

a mix of those, really.

[Navasha]

I think its just the opposite of what some of you are thinking.   The wardens aren't "killing" the Old Gods in his mind, they are freeing them.   In the tales, Fen'Harel locked both the 'good' gods and the 'bad' gods away.    We now know that that the old elven Gods are not exactly benign all-powerful entities, but were likely very powerful elves themselves.   They also had factions that warred with one another.   The game also tells us that powerful spirits ALWAYS return.  

 

Fen'Harel probably locked one the life sparks of one of the factions away in Dragons and buried them deep underground.   The other he locked beyond the veil.  Now you have the Wardens going around KILLING the Old Gods 'traps' and freeing those life sparks.   Solas seems to be an all around good guy and likely locked the two sides away from each other to prevent some major catastrophe from happening.   The Wardens are in effect speeding along the undoing of his work.  

 

So that's why I believe he doesn't care for them much.   He basically says what the Wardens are doing will lead to a greater doom down the road.   He has no love for the blight, which I believe is the 'dark' gods attempt to free themselves.   

 

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.

[Kenthen]

I think its just the opposite of what some of you are thinking.   The wardens aren't "killing" the Old Gods in his mind, they are freeing them.   In the tales, Fen'Harel locked both the 'good' gods and the 'bad' gods away.    We now know that that the old elven Gods are not exactly benign all-powerful entities, but were likely very powerful elves themselves.   They also had factions that warred with one another.   The game also tells us that powerful spirits ALWAYS return.  

 

Fen'Harel probably locked one the life sparks of one of the factions away in Dragons and buried them deep underground.   The other he locked beyond the veil.  Now you have the Wardens going around KILLING the Old Gods 'traps' and freeing those life sparks.   Solas seems to be an all around good guy and likely locked the two sides away from each other to prevent some major catastrophe from happening.   The Wardens are in effect speeding along the undoing of his work.  

 

So that's why I believe he doesn't care for them much.   He basically says what the Wardens are doing will lead to a greater doom down the road.   He has no love for the blight, which I believe is the 'dark' gods attempt to free themselves.   

 

Those are my thoughts on it anyway.

I'm pretty sure Solas wants to undo the banishment of the gods if anything. Restore what was lost, and all that. I mean, he even suggests that he was not quite happy with how things turned out when asking a hypothetical question to the Inquisitor.

 

"You would risk everything you have in the hope that the future is better? What if it isn't? What if you wake up to find that the future you shaped is worse than what was?"

 

At least that was my interpretation of it. So going back to the Gray Wardens, I think Solas objecting is possibly as simple as he makes it sound. What they're intending to do, and not so much the method, could have worse consequences than the Blight they intend to stop by going on their old god killing spree in the first place.

 

Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought the old gods that get corrupted into arch demons were different from the ones Fen'Harel banished. But assuming they're not, I suppose that would explain his objections even if he intends to free them. Them being dead would make it more difficult, I mean.

[Rogue Master]

My guess is Solas know what's up with all mysteries in Thedas, including what blight and archdemon really is. he even know that vallaslin was a slave's mark.

that's why he dislike the Grey Warden who "deal with forces they don't understand" and he think the Grey Warden has the wrong method of fighting "the Blight"

However he's tired of trying to make people to understand what he understood because of his experience with the nowadays Dalish elves.

and about him giving the orb to cory, I think previously they agreed on some kind of deal and cory betray him, then he decided to recover the orb by joining the forces that opposed cory.