122 réponses à ce sujet

[Aren]

I will give my trust to the Wardens since they have saved   the world 5 times , while Solas was well  in his bed slumber

[Medhia_Nox]

@KaiserShep: I always felt like Cassandra disapproved because the Wardens shouldn't be beholden to anything but stopping the Blight and I felt like the decision implied they were going to be absorbed into the Inquisition like the Templars/Mages can be.

 

If you sent them away - they would 1) Be safe from Corypheus' control.  2) Still be available for Blight's 6/7. 

 

Not to mention when the other Darkspawn Magisters inevitably wake up (good reason to cure the Calling - thanks HoF!)

[Hollerboller]

Solas has no right to bash the wardens. He is the least person who schould make speeches against anyone.

He is responsible of the mess we are in in DA:I and is now using the inquisition to set things right.

Countless death are on his freaking fade walking knifeear head.

In my first playthrough i was all nice to him not knowing who he really was and what he has done. After i finished the pt i thought to myself, "goddamn solas i want you dead".

Now i am always mean to him so that i can slap him.

 

Bioware did a damn good job with solas character and story.

 

 

Sorry for my bad english

[Arvaarad]

Seeking out old gods before they're corrupted by darkspawn is pretty monstrous, even minus the demon summoning the Wardens were doing.

They'd be killing these gods in their sleep, for no reason beyond "they could become corrupted later". And what if killing the last of them caused all the darkspawn stay on the surface forever (since they'd no longer be called to find and free the next one)? They could very well kill these beings only to discover that it made the world more dangerous than before.

[In Exile]

About the judgment, she was asking to be used as an example and a warning to other Wardens of what happens when you blindly follow your leaders for the "greater good." I take it that Solas thought doing that would be a good idea, while just sending her off to die doesn't have the same redemptive value. Not that I agreed with him, mind you. I prefer the option (which I think only comes up with the Nobility Knowledge perk?) of sending her to Weisshaupt as a deserter.

They aren't throwing out everything we learned about the Wardens. The Wardens have always been shady. When they're not busy trying to save the world, they're busy trying to destroy it. Their secretiveness is also pretty destructive.

Grey Wardens are defined by their incompetence. There isn't a game that goes by that they don't do something incredibly destructive that risks the death of hundreds of thousands of people. Most of it stems from their rank dishonesty, but they also have pretty stupid plans as a general rule.

[Foe-jarmer]

Seeking out old gods before they're corrupted by darkspawn is pretty monstrous, even minus the demon summoning the Wardens were doing.

They'd be killing these gods in their sleep, for no reason beyond "they could become corrupted later". And what if killing the last of them caused all the darkspawn stay on the surface forever (since they'd no longer be called to find and free the next one)? They could very well kill these beings only to discover that it made the world more dangerous than before.

That's a great way to put it. When I first got to adamant and found out the wardens plan I thought it was generally sound (minus the demon part). I mean, at the time the wardens thought they were going extinct because all of them were experiencing the calling. If they are going to be the last wardens in Thedas then it makes sense to fulfill their duty and exterminate as many darkspawn as possible in the deep roads before the calling takes their mind. They just took it one step further by attempting to go after the old Gods. Which made sense at the time, no old Gods, no blight, no blight, no surface darkspawn.

But you make a very very good point. Killing the old Gods before they become corrupted would be like killing all the mages because they might become possessed. Plus without the old Gods drawing the darkspawn to them they very well might surge to the surface like you said.

Damn, the wardens are stupid lol. They didn't put much thought into their plan or the ramifications of it. To say nothing of the absolutely retarded demon binding part.

[Gaz83]

It'd sure be nice if Wolfie cared to share what he might know, rather than skip out without so much as leaving his masterwork gear behind.

 

I really hope I don't have to battle him in any future DLC. 

 

The dude is wearing high quality attire that casts hidden blades on hit. I'm toast. 

[Texhnolyze101]

Grey Wardens are defined by their incompetence. There isn't a game that goes by that they don't do something incredibly destructive that risks the death of hundreds of thousands of people. Most of it stems from their rank dishonesty, but they also have pretty stupid plans as a general rule.

 

The HoF is not stupid though.

[Foe-jarmer]

The HoF is not stupid though.

That depends on how you played origins...

[KaiserShep]

I really hope I don't have to battle him in any future DLC. 
 
The dude is wearing high quality attire that casts hidden blades on hit. I'm toast.

It's a rule that returning characters toss away their old gear before showing up.

[In Exile]

The HoF is not stupid though.

No. Absolutely not. But the HOF is a shinning beacon of competence surrounded by idiots. You'd never have been the HOF if Duncan wasn't an idiot.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I will give my trust to the Wardens since they have saved   the world 5 times , while Solas was well  in his bed slumber

 

Yeah that's where Solas's moral high ground kinda fails. The ''useless'' Wardens have stopped the Darkspawn from consuming the world no less than 5 times while the Elven gods were off doing whatever Elven gods do. I suppose FleMythal did help, but it came with strings attached.

 

Meanwhile, Solas greatly helps cause a cataclysmic event and sets the world on the way to total destruction because of a bad decision he made. So the whole spiel that Wardens are unreliable falls pretty much flat.; for all their numerous faults, at least they prevent apocalypses, not cause them.

 

If Solas finds that the Wardens or the world don't know enough about the Darkspawn, maybe, I don't know, inform them? Surely the Dread Wolf can come up with a way to tickle down vital information somehow, rather than sit on his ass complaining about stupid humies while giving world-ending artifacts to insane Tevinter Magisters? 

[Farangbaa]

The Wardens dying wouldn't really be a problem if they just, you know, told people how to become a Grey Warden and why exactly they are necessary to end Blights.

But no. Lets stay super secretive about it, force people to join them and do whatever is necessary to stop the Blight (again, which only they know how to do).

Things like, you know, summoning a demon army to kill sleeping old gods.

They are ridiculous.

[Foe-jarmer]

The Wardens dying wouldn't really be a problem if they just, you know, told people how to become a Grey Warden and why exactly they are necessary to end Blights.

But no. Lets stay super secretive about it, force people to join them and do whatever is necessary to stop the Blight (again, which only they know how to do).

Things like, you know, summoning a demon army to kill sleeping old gods.

They are ridiculous.

I never played origins, but isn't it pretty well known throughout thedas that people become Grey wardens by drinking darkspawn blood and surviving??
And to end a blight all that needs to happen is the archdemon die and a warden to be around so his/her soul can merge with the old God's soul and finally slay it. Again, seems like pretty common knowledge around thedas. I mean, the blight has been around for generations. There's probably an abundance of songs and books detailing the wardens, each blight, the warden who ended each blight etc.

So even if the wardens get wiped out, new wardens can appear because everyone knows about drinking darkspawn blood and all it entails.

The only thing that isn't common knowledge throughout thedas is the calling.

[Farangbaa]

But it's not common knowledge, DA:O tells you that time and time again.

(Except Anora.. who seems to know how it all works)

[KaiserShep]

I never played origins, but isn't it pretty well known throughout thedas that people become Grey wardens by drinking darkspawn blood and surviving??
And to end a blight all that needs to happen is the archdemon die and a warden to be around so his/her soul can merge with the old God's soul and finally slay it. Again, seems like pretty common knowledge around thedas. I mean, the blight has been around for generations. There's probably an abundance of songs and books detailing the wardens, each blight, the warden who ended each blight etc.

So even if the wardens get wiped out, new wardens can appear because everyone knows about drinking darkspawn blood and all it entails.

The only thing that isn't common knowledge throughout thedas is the calling.

No, the details on how an archdemon is actually defeated is unknown to most of Thedas. Even the Inquisitor doesn't know, but does make the logical conclusion that it's not so simple if it's always a Warden that does it in every Blight, but has no one but the imposter to dish more BS.

 

If Loghain knew exactly how an archdemon was defeated, he would not have been so quick to outlaw the Wardens entirely. It's their secret that screws them, because people just don't quite get how instrumental they are in the war against the darkspawn horde, and people like Loghain, Howe, et al don't buy into the legend nonsense like Cailan did.

[KaiserShep]

But it's not common knowledge, DA:O tells you that time and time again.

(Except Anora.. who seems to know how it all works)

 

In fairness, Anora only seems to know that the Joining is potentially fatal. She doesn't know about the archdemon part, presumably. Though, I think the writers kind of flubbed on that one, tossing it out there so that there were multiple advocates for making Loghain a Warden.

[elrofrost]

Because Solas believes they are not as important as they are made out to be. Add in the fact that they were willing to do something so horrendous(at least in his mind) of killing the Old Gods to prevent future Blights. He believes they go too far in order to prevent a "what if" future of an Old Gold becoming an archdemon. And if it is true that Wardens are needed to end Blights, then they need to be rebuilt and kept in check and not have as many freedoms to do "whatever needs to be done"

That's good for Solas, being a demi-god and all, he doesn't have to worry about Blights. But the rest of the poor schleps on the planet do. That's why I kept the Wardens around.

[Farangbaa]

In fairness, Anora only seems to know that the Joining is potentially fatal. She doesn't know about the archdemon part, presumably. Though, I think the writers kind of flubbed on that one, tossing it out there so that there were multiple advocates for making Loghain a Warden.

That's true. Still I found it very odd she knew even that, as the game kinda made a point of it that they didn't tell it just because it's fatal (if not immediatly then it will be in the long run)

[ashlover mark 2]

The Wardens are already a small order compared to most others because the people of Thedas aren't keen on giveing their lives away to unending war with the darkspawn. If they told everyone you could die just by joining to then live a life of brutal nightmares and war to then die either killing the Archdemon or a brutal death in battle alone in the deep roads even less would want to join. They have their secrets for a reason.

[elrofrost]

Seeking out old gods before they're corrupted by darkspawn is pretty monstrous, even minus the demon summoning the Wardens were doing.

They'd be killing these gods in their sleep, for no reason beyond "they could become corrupted later". And what if killing the last of them caused all the darkspawn stay on the surface forever (since they'd no longer be called to find and free the next one)? They could very well kill these beings only to discover that it made the world more dangerous than before.

Why? What have the old gods done for anybody lately? Besides turn into a Archdemon?

[elrofrost]

Yeah that's where Solas's moral high ground kinda fails. The ''useless'' Wardens have stopped the Darkspawn from consuming the world no less than 5 times while the Elven gods were off doing whatever Elven gods do. I suppose FleMythal did help, but it came with strings attached.

 

Meanwhile, Solas greatly helps cause a cataclysmic event and sets the world on the way to total destruction because of a bad decision he made. So the whole spiel that Wardens are unreliable falls pretty much flat.; for all their numerous faults, at least they prevent apocalypses, not cause them.

 

If Solas finds that the Wardens or the world don't know enough about the Darkspawn, maybe, I don't know, inform them? Surely the Dread Wolf can come up with a way to tickle down vital information somehow, rather than sit on his ass complaining about stupid humies while giving world-ending artifacts to insane Tevinter Magisters? 

My big questions for Solas.. is why not just walk up to Cory and take the orb back? 

[KaiserShep]

I don't see what's so bad about killing the Old Gods preemptively. By their will or not, they're basically sending a huge homing signal to an impossible-to-eradicate horde of monsters. The idea that there may be something worse doesn't really matter if the darkspawn corrupt them and force someone to kill them later.

[In Exile]

I never played origins, but isn't it pretty well known throughout thedas that people become Grey wardens by drinking darkspawn blood and surviving??
And to end a blight all that needs to happen is the archdemon die and a warden to be around so his/her soul can merge with the old God's soul and finally slay it. Again, seems like pretty common knowledge around thedas. I mean, the blight has been around for generations. There's probably an abundance of songs and books detailing the wardens, each blight, the warden who ended each blight etc.

So even if the wardens get wiped out, new wardens can appear because everyone knows about drinking darkspawn blood and all it entails.

The only thing that isn't common knowledge throughout thedas is the calling.

It's not known at all beside a landsmeet plothole.

[ashlover mark 2]

I don't see what's so bad about killing the Old Gods preemptively. By their will or not, they're basically sending a huge homing signal to an impossible-to-eradicate horde of monsters.

Exactly. People are forgetting the Old Gods are calling out to the darkspawn.