122 réponses à ce sujet

[ComedicSociopathy]

If Solas is so concerned about the Wardens killing the Archdemons why he doesn't just fricking explain why that is a bad idea. He just complains about the Wardens ignorance. Won't one great method of dispelling this horrible and self-destructive ignorance is by, I don't know, telling them what the Archdemons and the Taint actually are and what alternatives their are for dealing with them. Solas is like a teacher who yells at their student for not solving a math formula but won't bother to explain how to solve it in the first place. 

 

Honestly, I think this an elven god thing. They almost never just sit you down and give out necessary exposition dump required to save the world and instead ramble about some cryptic stuff that's apparently going to be important in  the next game. Gets really annoying after awhile. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

The thing is I simply don't believe they are the victims some make them out to be. They have way to many to connections to darkspawn and blights. We know they told the magisters to go to the black city to go get power and they brought the blight back with them, now they  only call out to blighted creatures to come free them. If they called out to cultist in Tevinter like they did before they could be free and unspoiled but they don't do that. They just call to darkspawn.

 

If you research dragons in DA:I, you find out that they are highly resistant to the blight. Since the old gods are very powerful dragons it's possible that they are immune unless they allow the infection to happen.

[ashlover mark 2]

If you research dragons in DA:I, you find out that they are highly resistant to the blight. Since the old gods are very powerful dragons it's possible that they are immune unless they allow the infection to happen.

The thing that gets me is that even if pre-blight old gods are corrupted against their will all 5 of them still woke up and went " Oooo looky looky, i've got an entire race of mindless killing machines at my beck and call. GO FORTH AND KILL EVERYTHING MUWHAHAHA!!!"  Wouldn't at least one not loose it's ****. The blight doesn't always have the same effect on everyone.

[ComedicSociopathy]

Old Gods aren't evil. They just are. The Imperium were listening to the Forbidden Ones while worshiping the Old Gods thinking they were one and the same.

 

If Old Gods were evil Kieran/Urthemiel would have caused damage. Flemeth wouldn't be trying to preserve them either. It's the Blight's corruption that makes them malevolent.

 

So, the Old Gods telling the magisters to sacrifice their servants to open the Veil to the Black City is not a morally questionable act? That would mean that human (or elven) sacrifice is totally not evil in your opinion, right. I'm guessing probably not. 

 

Also, we have no idea what Flemeth is going to do with that Old God soul she stole. Yeah, she mentions she's going to have revenge on someone or something, but we have no idea how she's going to go about or who she's going to sweep aside along the way. Elven gods have a serious problem with properly explaining their mysterious motivations. 

[Bethgael]

I am probably wrong,

Spoiler

but I have this belief that the Black City is actually Arlathann. When the Gods warred and the Veil was created, Solas probably sealed them away in the fade with their city, which was full of their corruption. After all, if the Veil is a creation of the ancient elves, it could explain why the Black City can be seen everywhere into the Fade : the core of the Empire became the core of the Fade. Or maybe the City is a twisted reflection of Arlathann ?

I SO agree!

[Voodoo Dancer]

just got the chance to punch solas on the chin .. and it was good , 

[Jeido]

there are many interesting points here.

 

I actually never thought that the Elven Gods could be the Old Gods, and with Solas disapproving with everything the Grey Wardens do, that would make sense to me.

I don't know if I'm the only one here, but I think I understand why he doesn't want to share his ancient knowledge, given that he tried to explain the true history of the ancient elves to the Dalish only to be marked as crazy.

Also being reminded by someone else how foolish your actions were would be one more reason not to tell anyone.

 

I really liked Solas, I still do, but after reading so many arguments about him I now have a split opinion myself.   

Hopefully Bioware will release a DLC or add-on that answers our questions. 

 

 

just got the chance to punch solas on the chin .. and it was good , 

 

the head flip thing was priceless   he really needs some hair on his head.

 

 

 

[In Exile]

If Solas is so concerned about the Wardens killing the Archdemons why he doesn't just fricking explain why that is a bad idea. He just complains about the Wardens ignorance. Won't one great method of dispelling this horrible and self-destructive ignorance is by, I don't know, telling them what the Archdemons and the Taint actually are and what alternatives their are for dealing with them. Solas is like a teacher who yells at their student for not solving a math formula but won't bother to explain how to solve it in the first place.

Honestly, I think this an elven god thing. They almost never just sit you down and give out necessary exposition dump required to save the world and instead ramble about some cryptic stuff that's apparently going to be important in the next game. Gets really annoying after awhile.

What's he supposed to say? "Yo, GWs, avatar of an ancient elven god here - stop killing archdemons because (reasons)". His justification for his knowledge of it is pretty insane. And if he used the fake Solas identity, who would believe him?

[ComedicSociopathy]

What's he supposed to say? "Yo, GWs, avatar of an ancient elven god here - stop killing archdemons because (reasons)". His justification for his knowledge of it is pretty insane. And if he used the fake Solas identity, who would believe him?

 

The Inquisitor would probably believe him, and if the Inquisitor conscripted the Wardens after Adamant then he or she could most definitely force the Wardens to listen to him. He can also just say he discovered the solution in the Fade, which is his go to answer for every weird thing he knows. If everyone else buys that then why wouldn't the Wardens?

 

Actually, know that I think about it, there's no really reason why he doesn't explain to the Inquisitor what the Old Gods are by using the "saw it the Fade excuse". Would have made things a lot easier for everyone if he did. 

[DaemionMoadrin]

You only conscripted the Wardens from Ferelden and Orlais, you have no authority over the rest.

[ComedicSociopathy]

You only conscripted the Wardens from Ferelden and Orlais, you have no authority over the rest.

 

Getting half of them to learn the truth is better then not at all, right. Plus they can convince the others in Weisshaupt. Point is Solas needs to start communicating and give out some much needed answers to problems that have plagued Thedas for far to long. 

[Beomer]

Solas disapproves of the Wardens for the same reason he disapproves of the PC whenever they show obstinacy that stems from ignorance.
Solas clearly knows a lot more about the nature of the taint, it's origin, darkspawn and the old gods. At least more than the Wardens do.
Keep in mind that he isn't actually against killing darkspawn. He's just against summoning and binding demons and trying to make the preemptive strike against blights by slaying the old gods. His exact words are, 'the blight isn't something you smugly outsmart'.
Why the Wardens'idea is bad beyond the obvious of demon summoning is something we won't know until we know what Solas knows. But either way, I'm sure the reasons are good.
That said Solas is also a bit of a hypocrite because while he dislikes the Wardens for their extreme actions, he himself is also an extremist who will go to any lengths to achieve his goals and save the 'people'. The fact that he's flawed makes sense. I foresee a nice character arc where he redeems himself for whatever wrongs he's done. Probably by sacrificing himself in the end, much like the Wardens.

[YCBself]

Getting half of them to learn the truth is better then not at all, right. Plus they can convince the others in Weisshaupt. Point is Solas needs to start communicating and give out some much needed answers to problems that have plagued Thedas for far to long. 

 

Depends on what his ultimate goal is. If his intention is to raise the elven empire up again then there's no much point in warning the nations he and his fellow gods would need to attack to get there.

 

Regardless even if his intentions are benign he has no way to actually prove anything that he says. He could say his answers come from the Fade but frankly I think most people in Thedas wouldn't believe anything that came out from their. Heck if it wasn't for the massive hole in the sky Cassandra and Lelianna would've been the first to toss him out on his ass the second he mentioned talking to Spirits.

[Bigdoser]

Getting half of them to learn the truth is better then not at all, right. Plus they can convince the others in Weisshaupt. Point is Solas needs to start communicating and give out some much needed answers to problems that have plagued Thedas for far to long. 

Problem is that no one will be believe him he has this discussion with cassandra she says his knowledge would be useful to to the circles then he notes his knowledge is too dangerous and challenges established ideas and would give them good reason to make him Tranquil. Guess what happens? Cass agrees with him. 

 

Hell he tried it with the dalish after he woke up he even tells you he was mocked and kicked out and called flat ear because they did not believe him at all. So what do you expect? Its the reason why he leaks approval when you ask him stuff and smacks a whole lot more in your face if you agree with hell he is shocked that you are actually agreeing with him in the first place. 

[Giantdeathrobot]

What's he supposed to say? "Yo, GWs, avatar of an ancient elven god here - stop killing archdemons because (reasons)". His justification for his knowledge of it is pretty insane. And if he used the fake Solas identity, who would believe him?

 

He's a god (or superpowerfulmage or whatever) of deceit and trickery. Surely he can come up with a way of subtly communicating vital information in between giving world-destroying artifacts to genocidal lunatics.

[Arvaarad]

The Inquisitor would probably believe him

Solas doesn't know that in-universe, though. That's a side effect of the fact that the inquisitor is being controlled by a player.

It's like, why did Orsino go all Harvester even when Hawke was helping him? Because it requires out-of-universe knowledge to know that Hawke will be successful at fending off the rest of the templars.

[teh DRUMPf!!]

Getting half of them to learn the truth is better then not at all, right. Plus they can convince the others in Weisshaupt. Point is Solas needs to start communicating and give out some much needed answers to problems that have plagued Thedas for far to long. 

 

Not always the wisest course of action.

[Sports72Xtrm]

Eh I don't know if he cares about saving the Old gods, that's more what Morrigan wants and we do learn that there is a way to save the Old Gods but it did require a Grey Warden and a crazy magical sex rite. What I got from Solas is that he disapproves of using the Joining, which in a way is a bit unnerving. Seriously, we glorify the Grey Wardens because traditionally, they've been the only way to stop the Blights as far as we know- but the thought that there is a crazy cult going around saying you can be a hero if you drink this monster blood and slowly become a monster and start to lose your mind by this crazy song. Think about it, doesn't seem so heroic. We justify it because we know no other way but it feels like Thedas society is a bunch of ignorant savages- they're like the tribe of people from king kong who takes a bunch of women and tie them up to a post as a sacrifice to the King Kong monster and we all say to each other "yup this is totally sane." It's not an exact analogy but conscripting and undergoing the Joining is like spreading the Blight is it not? And we don't know if killing all the old gods will stop darkspawn from reproducing or from being eradicated, so where do we get this idea that the Grey Wardens are necessary. But yeah if Solas knows a better way, why doesn't he just say it so I will say that is hypocritical of him.

[Lewie]

I try to take on board what the game gives me, if he is the bad guy then he has tricked Flemeth, Cole? Everyone. Or Flemeth and Cole know what happened and I can believe them, truth be told I find it hard to think a betrayal happened with Flemeth, there is no end of Morrigan talking about preserving old ways.

 

Flemeth always shows up to help in a blight, somewhat indirectly of course.

[Lewie]

louise101:  Just because someone has antiquated beliefs for a reason - doesn't make the beliefs not antiquated.

 

It has nothing to do with "Solas is wrong."  If he's truly an elven god - he's not wrong, to himself (or Mythal evidently).

 

However - I am not an elven god (at least in game, in real life... shhhh) - and therefore I do not think as elven gods might, nor do I find it wise for a mortal to try to do so.  Especially when the elven gods are clearly lower case "g"ods... who walk the earth and have petty emotions and perspectives which do not seem to be much more beyond those of a mortal.

 

BTW - you're aware who empowered Cory to even have lackeys in this game yeah?  Cause it was Solas.

It was Fen' Harel then, and Mythal agreed and knew what he was trying to do, or Flemeth so which is it? 

 

I mean jeez I thought Flemeth invented body hopping.

 

UGH. That is old school get over it.

 

OOOh! shiny.

[Lewie]

Fiona wasn't real for like 5 minutes.

The Lord seeker in Val Royeau was a demon. 

The Templar commander was replaced too.

Cory hid in the body of a grey warden. The grey wardens went hoohah for the calling but stroud said heyoo mates, bad call.

 

It is Corys fault the rifts are everywhere, it it his fault the templars and mages and seekers and grey wardens were almost wiped out. 

 

They all worshipped 'The Elder One' if I recall. 

[draken-heart]

For this issue, I kind of agree that summoning demons is bad, but also disagree that the wardens are at fault for being duped into it. They were having the taint and the calling used against them, which made them panic, and rush to the closest, most logical option for them, which was bad for them.