437 réponses à ce sujet

[SamanthaJ]

I can see why some people might have problems with it, but I didn't feel the relationship was abusive or entirely unwanted on Dorian's part. He seemed a little annoyed at Bull's indiscretion rather than completely horrified about it. And when Bull suggested that Dorian left his undies behind so he had an excuse to come back Dorian did say something about how if Bull left his door unlocked he just might. At the end when Dorian said he was staying the Inquisitor asked if Bull had something to do with it and Dorian implied that it did, so I thought he seemed happy in spite of his previous uncertainty about the relationship. I definitely don't think it was intended to come off as abusive. As for Bull's indiscretion, I don't think there was much consideration in how it could come off as inappropriate. I think that banter is there just because it was the easiest way to let the player know that hey, these two characters are hooking up. 

[Hellion Rex]

Except in abusive relationships, it's hard to speak up -- you can feel like you're just imagining things, or like this is what it's supposed to be like and you're just weak. Particularly if you've never been in an emotionally invested relationship before, it can be very hard to tell what's acceptable and what's not. Which, again, Dorian has not been in an emotional relationship, just physical ones that were swept under the rug very quickly. 

 

"You should have just walked away from it!" and "You should have said no!" are exactly things people say to victims of abuse. It's a lot more complicated from the inside, and things that seem clear to others are not for the person. 

 

I don't think it's an abusive relationship though. Granted, some of the lines they wrote are a bit problematic, but I think you are reading way too much into them.

[Ryzaki]

I'm... someone that doesn't like seeing bigotry and unfounded phobias reinforced in the media I consume and support? Because most people wouldn't be choosing it for their character but for themselves, because they themselves are phobic, and the last thing I really care is to give jerks like that more avenues to express their hatred. But this isn't really the topic for that, as I said. 

 

Isabela and Fenris came together on their own terms, and Fenris doesn't say things that show he thinks she's gross and rude. Whereas... Dorian does. He makes disgusted, frustrated sounds whenever Iron Bull diverts the topic from something political to something objectifyingly sexual. He's actively grossed out. 

 

 

And I don't care for people trying to police what others say and do in their media (when they're not the media creator mind) so as you said really not the topic.

 

And she completely fetishizes his slavery to Danarius on several occasions. But that's okay?

 

But I'm pretty sure if Dorian was completely disgusted by IB he wouldn't start a relationship with him. Much like he doesn't start one with a PC he finds intolerable.

 

I'm not sure why people are treating Dorian like a clingy mage flower who needs someone to validate himself.

[Chernaya]

To be honest, I'm tired of people comparing Bull to some kind of sexual offender because of his style in bed. Dorian is a grown man, and their relationship is clearly mutual or it wouldn't continue. If you romance Bull he tells you that you can stop it any time, why wouldn't it be the same for Dorian? Also further dialogue in their relationship implies they gain feelings for each other, just as a Bull/Inquisitor relationship evolves from friends w/benefits to a romance. I don't expect every person to be comfortable themselves with a BDSM relationship, but if two consenting adults have one then as Dorian says "it's not really any of your business." 

[Sui Causa]

Bull is into what his partners are into. Saying that he's into dominance is not entirely true, because he sleeps with pleanty of other characters than the inquisitor with nothing kinky about it. His relationship with Dorion is probably quite different behind closed doors than it is with the Inquisitor. He lays out the reasons he does what he does with the Inquisitor very plainly, none of those reasons fall on Dorion's shoulders at all, so Bull would not be expecting the same response or relationship from Dorion.

 

Bull offers one type of romance that is almost never offered in video games. If you aren't into the kink or his personality, or if your Inquisitor is not into it, then you simply turn him down and move on to a romance companion that is into what you are.

 

Bull never, ever forces anything on the Inquisitor either, and I'm offended that people would make light of how much consent is required before Bull even touches you. Flirting with him is like flirting with a brick. It's not like you make eyes at him and he immedietly grabs you, locks you in his dungeon and ties you up. You have to constantly harass him until he finally approaches you at all. And then you have three fricking chances to say no. And even then when you are done, when he explains things clearly and puts it all on the table for you, you can still say no and walk away.

 

Bull is concerned with consent. He's not abusive. Saying "He's into BDSM and dominance and therefore his relationship must be abuse!" is actually extremely offensive to people who can heavily relate to the romance that Bull offers and really, really liked it.

 

The game has to let you know somehow that the two are doing it. If Bull was as secretive as he was with the Inquisitor, literally no one would know except Cole. A single banter between Bull/Dorion/Cole would not be enough for the majority of people to see the romance at all, especially if it doesn't show up due to banter bugs/lack of party comp/ etc.

 

You can talk about their relationship to both of them afterwards. Both of them seem happy, and it was that dialogue the reaffirmed to me that Bull was not treating Dorion like he does the Inquisitor, either.

 

And yeah, I just want to like, double point out here in lines with other posts: Treating Bull like a sexual predator that would take advantage of Dorion, based off of clearly misunderstood interpretations of his relationship with the Inquisitor is infuriating. Bull is BDSM done right, in a mainstream media game. Don't you dare try and ruin that for the rest of us who have had nothing but 50 shades of garbage to represent our lifestyle. If Dorion wanted it to stop, he would have stopped it. Protesting loudly in front of people to keep up apperances does not automatically translate to a cry for help because the big bad dom is abusing you behind the scenes.

[daveliam]

I've never had a chance to really explore the Dorian and Bull relationship because I've only rolled male characters who have romanced one or the other so far.  My only female Inquisitor just recruited Bull and hasn't recruited Dorian yet.  I'm intrigued by what people have said about the situation.  My gut is that it's not an abusive relationship from the banter that I've seen.  I think it's just not a relationship that works for everyone.  I know that Bull and the Inquisitor is the same way.  I was a little uncomfortable with Bull's insistent dominance at first, but then I went with it and found his romance to be a really interesting and different story.  I definitely didn't hate it. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

Bull has absolutely zero respect for Dorian's feelings and wishes when it comes to their "relationship" and that's what really bothers me about it. As someone else pointed out, Bull will refuse to discuss his relationship with the Inquisitor publicly, but he'll brag about Dorian, and when Dorian objects to Bull betraying his privacy (and the inherent trust that comes with a relationship) Bull completely shuts him down and bottom shames him. That is abusive. 

 

Anyone who's romanced Dorian knows he's absolutely desperate for any sort of romantic affection because he's been denied any sort of emotional connection with a man his whole life. So even a belittling, manipulative boyfriend would be a step up to him, which in my opinion is why he keeps going back to Bull even though you can tell how he's unhappy and uncomfortable with it.

 

The whole thing is just incredibly sad to me. This was definitely not what I was hoping for when I was talking about how I wanted something between them during pre-release.

[Wanderlust14]

And I don't care for people trying to police what others say and do in their media (when they're not the media creator mind) so as you said really not the topic.

And she completely fetishizes his slavery to Danarius on several occasions. But that's okay?

But I'm pretty sure if Dorian was completely disgusted by IB he wouldn't start a relationship with him. Much like he doesn't start one with a PC he finds intolerable.

I'm not sure why people are treating Dorian like a clingy mage flower who needs someone to validate himself.

I'm not, but I am uncomfortable with the relationship. I had an Aunt in a relationship similar to Bull's, not the BDS&M aspect but one where the man always knew best, would override her opinion, and would embarrass her. It was awful to see and seeing Bull act like that man makes me sick. Sure, perhaps others don't see it the way I do, but as someone who watch a family member go through that, it isn't fun to see in my game.

Edit: the issue isn't the BDS&M, the issue is the fact Bull can be disrespectful and that disrespect combined with the control Bull demands makes for an unhealthy relationship. (They also made the relationship into a joke and that added to the problem)

[dgcatanisiri]

I can see where people are coming from on this, but personally, I disagree with this particular interpretation. I think that there's some problematic elements to it, but I think that's more due to the second-hand nature of it - it HAS to be discussed in banters to be acknowledged as something that happens, and I can easily take Bull being so open about it as a method of normalizing the fact that they have this relationship that Dorian was raised to believe was wrong, by being out and loud and proud about things with his partner and seeing no backlash. I mean, much of the flirtations between Dorian and the Inquisitor are when it's just between the two of them, rather than around others, and Dorian's had to keep his private life more private than most because of Tevinter's attitude towards homosexuality. So he'd be used to keeping it between himself and his partner because it would need to be a secret, while that's not an issue within the Inquisition. At least, that's my take on it.

 

Like I said, I get where people are coming from, and I will say that it probably could have been handled better, but I personally don't agree with that interpretation of things.

[Sui Causa]

We don't know how Dorian and Bull are behind closed doors, because you don't see that in game. You get bits of banter that you put together. The rest is left to your imagination, and clearly people are projecting heavily onto it.

 

In the same  banter that Iron Bull is allegedly abusing Dorian, Dorian repeatedly calls him a savage, a beast of burden, etc. Dorian gives as good as he gets. It's not a one sided dynamic between the two of them. I highly doubt that when they are alone, Dorian continues to harass Bull about being a mindless beast of burden. It's safe to assume that Bull does not do the same, and the banter between them is simply a show for the players benefit.

 

Edit: Also again. Iron Bull does not necessarily demand control from Dorian. You don't know that. Bull demands control from the Inquisitor because the Inquisitor is willing to give it and that is their dynamic and their relationship based off of what they need.

 

If we take Bull's ability to know what people want at face value, then why is it so hard to assume that while Bull knows that the Inquisitor needs dominance, he also know that Dorian needs acceptance. Dorian needs someone who is not ashamed to be with him, someone who is proud of him, and is willing to brag about being with him. Maybe Bull is doing this to improve Dorian's confidence and the like?

 

I don't see abuse. At all.

[veeia]

I think you're totally right. It's the way it's divulged that makes it so uncomfortable. I don't think their vision of what their relationship is is an abusive one where Bull ignores and shames him while Dorian is too afraid to say anything, but because it's delivered so sporadically in banters, I get why people read it that way.

Wish you could have gotten a cutscene or something with them, to explore it further.

[Chernaya]

They pick on each other, it's how they are. It reminds me of that Cole dialogue where he talks about Bull and Krem 'saying mean things to each other' but it's not actually meant to be mean. I just really see this whole situation as being overthought because I know the writers would never implement an abusive relationship and they would be raising their eyebrows at this thread. It's also not true that Bull refuses to talk about his relationship with the Inquisitor openly, he does in banter just as he does when with Dorian. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I can see where people are coming from on this, but personally, I disagree with this particular interpretation. I think that there's some problematic elements to it, but I think that's more due to the second-hand nature of it - it HAS to be discussed in banters to be acknowledged as something that happens, and I can easily take Bull being so open about it as a method of normalizing the fact that they have this relationship that Dorian was raised to believe was wrong, by being out and loud and proud about things with his partner and seeing no backlash. I mean, much of the flirtations between Dorian and the Inquisitor are when it's just between the two of them, rather than around others, and Dorian's had to keep his private life more private than most because of Tevinter's attitude towards homosexuality. So he'd be used to keeping it between himself and his partner because it would need to be a secret, while that's not an issue within the Inquisition. At least, that's my take on it.

 

Like I said, I get where people are coming from, and I will say that it probably could have been handled better, but I personally don't agree with that interpretation of things.

That's a seriously false comparison. Dorian will discuss his relationship with the Inquisitor with the other companions happily. It's when Bull brings it up to other people that he gets uncomfortable. Clearly it's not his homosexuality that he's agitated about being discussed, it's his relationship with Bull specifically and how Bull goes about discussing it.

 

Sera makes a sex joke about Dorian and the Inquisitor, Dorian responds with a joke of his own. Bull brings up their relationship and Sera makes a sex joke about Dorian and Bull, Dorian gives an uncomfortable sigh.

[Wanderlust14]

They pick on each other, it's how they are. It reminds me of that Cole dialogue where he talks about Bull and Krem 'saying mean things to each other' but it's not actually meant to be mean. I just really see this whole situation as being overthought because I know the writers would never implement an abusive relationship and they would be raising their eyebrows at this thread. It's also not true that Bull refuses to talk about his relationship with the Inquisitor openly, he does in banter just as he does when with Dorian.

Very few people intend to write an abusive relationship, but that doesn't change the fact it does come across to some people and does have flags for one. Look at Twilight, some people love it, but others have very convincing arguments out there that it is abusive or 50 shades (which from what I've read on sites by people involved in the BDS&M community also found as abusive)

[(Disgusted noise.)]

They pick on each other, it's how they are. It reminds me of that Cole dialogue where he talks about Bull and Krem 'saying mean things to each other' but it's not actually meant to be mean. I just really see this whole situation as being overthought because I know the writers would never implement an abusive relationship and they would be raising their eyebrows at this thread. It's also not true that Bull refuses to talk about his relationship with the Inquisitor openly, he does in banter just as he does when with Dorian. 

It's more than just saying mean things or teasing, though. It's about disrespecting your partner. If instead of Bull/Dorian and the "stop topping from the bottom" line, it was Bull/Cassandra and a "quiet woman, men are talking" line, would you still equate it to teasing? There's a difference between calling someone a name and implying that someone's opinions are worthless because of what you get to do to them in bed.

[Reznore57]

 

Edit: Also again. Iron Bull does not necessarily demand control from Dorian. You don't know that. Bull demands control from the Inquisitor because the Inquisitor is willing to give it and that is their dynamic and their relationship based off of what they need.

 

 

I'm sorry but this is where I have a HUUUUUGE problem with The Iron Bull romance.

If you don't want to do what HE wants in bed , he tells you , you don't know what you need.

 

So no the IB romance is all about what the Iron Bull needs, and if it turns out you need something else there is no compromise.

I would have zero problem if he would say "Look I feel uncomfortable doing that , so we call it quit.No hard feelings"

But nope what happens is he tells you , you have no freaking clue what you need in bed , and if you can't see it , well bye.

What the Inquisitor wants or needs is unimportant , Bull already decided what is best for you.

[SamanthaJ]

Here's what David says if anyone's interested...

 

Spoiler

[Fredward]

Hmmm. Okay. Let's think about this. I haven't seen this relationship myself since I romanced Dorian in my as of yet only playthrough but I've heard about it. I've heard the word abuse used. I think it MIGHT have SLIGHTLY more merit than with it being used to describe Sera's dickishness in her relationship with a Dalish Inquisitor but it falls flat for me when I think about it. And I intensely  dislike a word like abuse, a loaded word, a meaningful, painful word for many to be used so flippantly.

 

Bull is pretty into dom and sub from what I've gathered. Part of that often includes elements like light embarrassment, it's part of the package. Part of the somewhat bizarre but very intense trust thing that goes on between a dom and a sub, a dom will always seek to make things uncomfortable but he'll never go too far. Otherwise that trust and understanding that underlies such a relationship is broken and it can't work.

 

The OP very nicely sets out Bull's character (sidenote: calling Bull manipulative with Dorian but calling his Viv's treatment respectful or whatever? He pretty much says he reminds her of one of his whateverladies and she treats him like a weird ass pet) but kinda glaums over his relationship with the Inquisitor in his/her effort to paint it as OOC and weird. It's not. If you're male and romance him I know that he at least once, and in public, states that you're very much the bottom. You don't get the option to express embarrassment or tell him to stop or whatever. Point is Bull's a dom, he acts like one. The only reason he isn't so overt with the Inquisitor is the fact that while he may rule in the bedroom he, and many others, still need to call the Inquisitor Boss at the end of the day. He can't undermine that authority in public in any way.

 

Moving on to Dorian. He's not some wide-eyed ingenue. In fact he makes it very clear that where he's from two men together is about pleasure, if what he got from Bull was outweighed by the embarrassment/discomfort (which in this kind of relationship isn't even necessarily bad) he would leave. He's a smart man. He's a competent man. He is not a wilting wallflower and he could set Bull's eye on fire if he ever tried anything Dorian didn't want. Also, kind of an aside, but being drunk does not mean you're incapable of giving consent. You have to be pretty damn drunk. And I doubt he's pretty damn drunk every time they ****.

 

I think this idea of Bull manipulating Dorian into a relationship he doesn't really want to be in is pretty damn insulting to Dorian. It infantilizes him in many respects, makes him powerless to resist the charms of the nefarious spy/mercenary Casanova. Spare me.

 

But lets go with that for just a second. That Dorian is being manipulated into this relationship. Does that qualify as abuse? Or simple dickishness? Abuse in my mind would be Bull physically keeping Dorian from leaving. Emotionally blackmailing him into staying. Simply not taking no for an answer. Abuse is not manipulating someone's vestigial hangups about their orientation or their relationship with their father, that is being an ass, but it is NOT abuse. It is not abuse because it takes autonomy of mind and deed away from the person that is supposedly being abused. It is saying that a fully grown man or woman with no mental deficiencies or mental/personality disorders does not have the resources to decide FOR THEMSELVES when a relationship is unhealthy for THEM. It is insulting. It is projection of things you value on that of another person and telling them that objectively it must be so. In short? It's horseshit.

 

Call Bull an ******* for using his spy training to exploit widdle old Dowian's desire for True Love (which I don't think is what's happening) but don't call it abuse, cuz it's not. And don't say Bull's behaviour is OOC to forward your agenda either because it's really not. Bull has some bedroom kink, he has this with everyone it just can't be expressed the same way with the Inquisitor. Your soldiers just aren't going to look at you the same way if your horned boyfriend publicly states that he is going to **** you on the dining hall table and there's nothing you can do about it.

[Hellion Rex]

Here's what David says if anyone's interested...

 

Spoiler

Thank you for finding this.

[Wanderlust14]

Hmmm. Okay. Let's think about this. I haven't seen this relationship myself since I romanced Dorian in my as of yet only playthrough but I've heard about it. I've heard the word abuse used. I think it MIGHT have SLIGHTLY more merit than with it being used to describe Sera's dickishness in her relationship with a Dalish Inquisitor but it falls flat for me when I think about it. And I intensely  dislike a word like abuse, a loaded word, a meaningful, painful word for many to be used so flippantly.
 
Bull is pretty into dom and sub from what I've gathered. Part of that often includes elements like light embarrassment, it's part of the package. Part of the somewhat bizarre but very intense trust thing that goes on between a dom and a sub, a dom will always seek to make things uncomfortable but he'll never go too far. Otherwise that trust and understanding that underlies such a relationship is broken and it can't work.
 
The OP very nicely sets out Bull's character (sidenote: calling Bull manipulative with Dorian but calling his Viv's treatment respectful or whatever? He pretty much says he reminds her of one of his whateverladies and she treats him like a weird ass pet) but kinda glaums over his relationship with the Inquisitor in his/her effort to paint it as OOC and weird. It's not. If you're male and romance him I know that he at least once, and in public, states that you're very much the bottom. You don't get the option to express embarrassment or tell him to stop or whatever. Point is Bull's a dom, he acts like one. The only reason he isn't so overt with the Inquisitor is the fact that while he may rule in the bedroom he, and many others, still need to call the Inquisitor Boss at the end of the day. He can't undermine that authority in public in any way.
 
Moving on to Dorian. He's not some wide-eyed ingenue. In fact he makes it very clear that where he's from two men together is about pleasure, if what he got from Bull was outweighed by the embarrassment/discomfort (which in this kind of relationship isn't even necessarily bad) he would leave. He's a smart man. He's a competent man. He is not a wilting wallflower and he could set Bull's eye on fire if he ever tried anything Dorian didn't want. Also, kind of an aside, but being drunk does not mean you're incapable of giving consent. You have to be pretty damn drunk. And I doubt he's pretty damn drunk every time they ****.
 
I think this idea of Bull manipulating Dorian into a relationship he doesn't really want to be in is pretty damn insulting to Dorian. It infantilizes him in many respects, makes him powerless to resist the charms of the nefarious spy/mercenary Casanova. Spare me.
 
But lets go with that for just a second. That Dorian is being manipulated into this relationship. Does that qualify as abuse? Or simple dickishness? Abuse in my mind would be Bull physically keeping Dorian from leaving. Emotionally blackmailing him into staying. Simply not taking no for an answer. Abuse is not manipulating someone's vestigial hangups about their orientation or their relationship with their father, that is being an ass, but it is NOT abuse. It is not abuse because it takes autonomy of mind and deed away from the person that is supposedly being abused. It is saying that a fully grown man or woman with no mental deficiencies or mental/personality disorders does not have the resources to decide FOR THEMSELVES when a relationship is unhealthy for THEM. It is insulting. It is projection of things you value on that of another person and telling them that objectively it must be so. In short? It's horseshit.
 
Call Bull an ******* for using his spy training to exploit widdle old Dowian's desire for True Love (which I don't think is what's happening) but don't call it abuse, cuz it's not. And don't say Bull's behaviour is OOC to forward your agenda either because it's really not. Bull has some bedroom kink, he has this with everyone it just can't be expressed the same way with the Inquisitor. Your soldiers just aren't going to look at you the same way if your horned boyfriend publicly states that he is going to **** you on the dining hall table and there's nothing you can do about it.

You may find disrespecting your partner in public alright and part of being with someone who is dominate, but I find it completely unacceptable. Also, abuse is absolutely NOT just physical, but can be emotional and verbal and humiliating your partner is consider an abusive behavior particularly if they didn't agree to such treatment and we have no way of knowing if he did, but judging what we know of Dorian, I doubt he would

[Sui Causa]

I'm sorry but this is where I have a HUUUUUGE problem with The Iron Bull romance.

If you don't want to do what HE wants in bed , he tells you , you don't know what you need.

 

So no the IB romance is all about what the Iron Bull needs, and if it turns out you need something else there is no compromise.

I would have zero problem if he would say "Look I feel uncomfortable doing that , so we call it quit.No hard feelings"

But nope what happens is he tells you , you have no freaking clue what you need in bed , and if you can't see it , well bye.

What the Inquisitor wants or needs is unimportant , Bull already decided what is best for you.

To get Bull to that stage, you had to go through multiple steps. You had to initiate the relationship with him to start with. He doesnt' come on to you at all. You have to flirt with him multiple times and jump through hoops to ever get him to approach your character in a sexual manner. After that, you have to consent during the act like three times. He shows you what it means to be with him, and then he gives you a very simple choice of being into it or not.

 

If you say that you are into it then you are roleplaying your character as being into it. It's consent. It's consensual. If you agree when he says this is what you need, then that is what your character needs and you are now taking on that role in a bdsm relationship. If you have a problem with your character being there, then that is your fault for putting them in that situation. Bull makes it very clear.

 

Also, Bull can tell if people across the room are sleeping with other people, and even know how many people they are sleeping with. He is extremly observant. When the game tells you that he can see what people need, you have to take that at face value. So if you consent to his romance and go along with it, then the game is going to assume that you are acknowledging that this is what your character wants, and Bull is actually right about your needs.

 

Some people do need things that are not available in a conventional relationship and recieve these things from people able to give of them in a safe and healthy manner, just as Bull does in the game. Iron Bull is a romance option for people to explore that. If it's not your cup of tea, do not take that out on the character. He is not inflicting anything upon the Inquisitor, at all. It's actually a challenge for a lot of people who are trying to romance Bull to get him to make the moves.

 

Do not villianize him just because you do not agree with the relationship style he offers after great pushing. If you are warned implicitly not to stick your hand in the fire, and then do, you do not villianize the fire as being evil for burning you, or declare that the fire is not able to offer something healthy to others.

[Fredward]

You may find disrespecting your partner in public alright and part of being with someone who is dominate, but I find it completely unacceptable. Also, abuse is absolutely NOT just physical, but can be emotional and verbal and humiliating your partner is consider an abusive behavior particularly if they didn't agree to such treatment and we have no way of knowing if he did, but judging what we know of Dorian, I doubt he would

 

What YOU find unacceptable does not matter. Unless it pertains to you ofc. Which it doesn't. If another grown individual decides that is what they want or require or need that is their prerogative and you have no right to try and shove your views down on them or to tell them that they're living/loving/being in something as subjective as a relationship wrong. That is what I am getting at.

 

And I'd say Dorian's continued presence in the relationship is enough of an agreement, which means it's not abuse because what you see as abuse and needless abject humiliation is part of their relationship's dynamic. Which you might not agree with but should try to understand anyway because that's just a decent thing to do. Clearly though we have different interpretations on Dorian as a character.

[Ryzaki]

I'm not, but I am uncomfortable with the relationship. I had an Aunt in a relationship similar to Bull's, not the BDS&M aspect but one where the man always knew best, would override her opinion, and would embarrass her. It was awful to see and seeing Bull act like that man makes me sick. Sure, perhaps others don't see it the way I do, but as someone who watch a family member go through that, it isn't fun to see in my game.

Edit: the issue isn't the BDS&M, the issue is the fact Bull can be disrespectful and that disrespect combined with the control Bull demands makes for an unhealthy relationship. (They also made the relationship into a joke and that added to the problem)

 

Except you have several chances to back out and he accepts that no hard feelings. I highly doubt Bull would force himself on Dorian.

 

That said you have the option to completely avoid it. So...

[sch1986]

And I don't care for people trying to police what others say and do in their media (when they're not the media creator mind) so as you said really not the topic.
 
And she completely fetishizes his slavery to Danarius on several occasions. But that's okay?
 
But I'm pretty sure if Dorian was completely disgusted by IB he wouldn't start a relationship with him. Much like he doesn't start one with a PC he finds intolerable.
 
I'm not sure why people are treating Dorian like a clingy mage flower who needs someone to validate himself.

I agree. I've heard the banters between Bull and Dorian. At first I was like- wait, what? But then by the time the banter is over I didn't think at all that the relationship was how it first sounded.

Dorian doesn't strike me as the type of character to be abused. He didn't like how his father was treating him so he left. He doesn't like some Tevinter practices: he says he's inspired by the inquisitor to return to Tevinter and fix them.

Dorian isn't a delicate little flower who can't stand up for himself.