36 réponses à ce sujet

[RawThunderHustle]

I miss having melee with Mages, can we get a staff combat skill tree added for new content?

[Big Magnet]

+1 

 

More than once I've ran up towards enemies wanting to whack them in the head with my staff

[TheGreyson]

There is even animation in game of mages hitting folks with the staff. Makes me sad that I can't stab and slash with my staff blade. That's the main reason I roll a Knight Enchanter, for the melee. It's just not quite the same.

[Jones7602]

+1

[Tremere]

*wow* They took this out too? 

[Elhanan]

*wow* They took this out too? 

Believe it may be due to locking the mage in place when auto-attacking. Have to cease fire before moving again.

[Etragorn]

This is why class locked weapons sucks. At least my mage should be able to equip a sword and kick ass melee style if they want to. That's what I did in DA:O with my Arcane Warrior and loved it.

[In Exile]

This is why class locked weapons sucks. At least my mage should be able to equip a sword and kick ass melee style if they want to. That's what I did in DA:O with my Arcane Warrior and loved it.

You mean auto-attack at a pretty inferior DPS?

[Tremere]

Yes, the melee attack of mages in DA2 was cool, another brilliant feature bites the dust in Inquisition

*sheesh* They must really not want my money.

[Rawgrim]

I miss being able to unequip weapons. If I do so now, the game just gives me a weapon out of the blue.

[Tremere]

You mean auto-attack at a pretty inferior DPS?

How do you figure... When mage attacks are calculated via magic? Especially in regards to an Arcane Warrior.

 

This statement only makes sense (to my understanding) if DPS was predicated on the weapon used, which would then beg the question, "Why have classes at all?"

 

In other words... If all you needed to do to improve your DPS was pick up another weapon and put points in the required attribute(s), why would classes matter?

[Tremere]

I miss being able to unequip weapons. If I do so now, the game just gives me a weapon out of the blue.

I agree. I never got the "default weapon" thing that started in DA2. Shouldn't it be unequip = no weapon/weapon of choice?

[Big Magnet]

You mean auto-attack at a pretty inferior DPS?

I don't give a damn if my attacks suck, I want to be able to do it! 

[Big Magnet]

Know what I would really, REALLY like? To see different animations whenever a char tries to use a weapon of a different class:  A mage trying to lift a big sword and not being able to do it, or a warrior pointing a staff at something, scratching his head and nothing happening.

 

Would this pander to the idiotic need of squeezing every little 0,00001% damage per second (because apparently that's all that matters)? No it wouldn't! 

 

But it would at least give me reason to have a little chuckle, and would actually SHOW me why can't my mage wield a tower shield, instead of "you can't because we told you so". 

[katokires]

You mean auto-attack at a pretty inferior DPS?

Yeah because Bioware, like you, seem to think a RPG player would bother with being efficient. Or even optimal as you seem to think there is any worthy in that. One of the most interesting points of RPGs (and one of the reasons DAI will never be a RPG for me) is exactly doing things that are not optimal or at least doing things that are extremely exotical despite being optimal.

Sometimes exotic turns out crappy and that is AWESOME. In my favorite game NWN2, even if I know builds that do hundreds of damage each round with melee most of my builds require resting after almost every combat so crappy they are, but I don't care because HAPPILY that game ALLOWS me to do what I want. FREEDOM. Not to do pointless things, make pointless choices and explore pointless maps like Inquisition but to build a character the way you want.

A character that actually represents yourself. Not some generic **** like a warrior, but a pure dexterity warrior, and not a rogue, but a 50str rogue/dragon disciple, or one of my favorites a full charisma monk, things DAI don't even barely start to scratch.. no... DAI wouldn't even be able to think about it if it could think so standard-ized it is. The better I could do, and only because of crafting is a "full" willpower warrior but even then his STR was still huge... ****** **** game.

DAO on the other hand allowed me to do all kinds of builds, even a staff user rogue... using a staff your dog picks that is useable for non mages. Yeah, surely not optimal, not even playable I would say, but stil I could do that because the game is so perfect it allows me to do so.

[Tex]

I agree whole heartedly with this tread +1

[leadintea]

Give us Staves for melee combat and Grimoires for ranged combat.

[In Exile]

How do you figure... When mage attacks are calculated via magic? Especially in regards to an Arcane Warrior.

This statement only makes sense (to my understanding) if DPS was predicated on the weapon used, which would then beg the question, "Why have classes at all?"

In other words... If all you needed to do to improve your DPS was pick up another weapon and put points in the required attribute(s), why would classes matter?

The only thing a sword did for AI is let you auto-attack. But your auto-attack - even if you pumped magic - was far inferior to casting damage spells.

I get liking wielding a sword, but even setting aside how inferior the DAO swords were to staves for boosting spells and putting aside the bug that made you sheathe to cast (it was a bug), AW did garbage damage compared to casting. It was just unkillable.

[In Exile]

Yeah because Bioware, like you, seem to think a RPG player would bother with being efficient. Or even optimal as you seem to think there is any worthy in that. One of the most interesting points of RPGs (and one of the reasons DAI will never be a RPG for me) is exactly doing things that are not optimal or at least doing things that are extremely exotical despite being optimal.
Sometimes exotic turns out crappy and that is AWESOME. In my favorite game NWN2, even if I know builds that do hundreds of damage each round with melee most of my builds require resting after almost every combat so crappy they are, but I don't care because HAPPILY that game ALLOWS me to do what I want. FREEDOM. Not to do pointless things, make pointless choices and explore pointless maps like Inquisition but to build a character the way you want.
A character that actually represents yourself. Not some generic **** like a warrior, but a pure dexterity warrior, and not a rogue, but a 50str rogue/dragon disciple, or one of my favorites a full charisma monk, things DAI don't even barely start to scratch.. no... DAI wouldn't even be able to think about it if it could think so standard-ized it is. The better I could do, and only because of crafting is a "full" willpower warrior but even then his STR was still huge... ****** **** game.
DAO on the other hand allowed me to do all kinds of builds, even a staff user rogue... using a staff your dog picks that is useable for non mages. Yeah, surely not optimal, not even playable I would say, but stil I could do that because the game is so perfect it allows me to do so.

I get some people have an obsession with crap builds. I'm not saying games should not have crap builds. I am saying games should strive not to have crap builds on purpose.

It's one thing for a spell or ability to suck. Flashfire in DAI sucks. It's quite another for the abilities to infect the game like a plague, where your choice is just to gimp yourself or not with a build.

That's what sucks so hard about D&D magic. It's almost all a deluge of crap except for a few spells. That's why Sorceror classes worked in BG2s modified 2e/3e hybrid.

[Tremere]

The only thing a sword did for AI is let you auto-attack. But your auto-attack - even if you pumped magic - was far inferior to casting damage spells.

I get liking wielding a sword, but even setting aside how inferior the DAO swords were to staves for boosting spells and putting aside the bug that made you sheathe to cast (it was a bug), AW did garbage damage compared to casting. It was just unkillable.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you on this. Why? Because you're interjecting aspects into the subject that have little to nothing to do with the bottom line. That a mage must sheath their (melee) weapon in order to cast (some) spells has very little to do with what amount of damage that's done once the spell hits. Having said that, this point still has little to do with how dps is calculated... Which is attribute based and the point of this conversation. Also, being an Arcane Warrior provides a +5 attack bonus that increases the likelihood that an attack hits it's intended target (regardless of the weapon used) and would thus subtly affect dps. (ie: If you're strikes are more accurate you will ultimately do more damage.) I kind of get your point on swords vs staves, but only in regards to the fact that staves rarely (if ever) missed their target. 

[Phoe77]

The animation used for sheathing a sword means that you'd be able to cast fewer of some spells in the same amount of time as a mage equipped with a staff would.  That has everything to do with DPS.  Furthermore, staff attacks in Origins always hit unless something physically obstructed the projectile , so arcane warriors would still almost certainly miss with basic attacks more often than a staff wielding mage would.  

 

That said, I do miss the melee staff animations from DA2.  It was a neat little feature.  However, to me at least, it was a little feature so I don't mind its exclusion much personally.

[squidney2k1]

Staff melee combat animation was awesome.

 

There are a couple of test items in the game you can play around with using Super Fun Time Engine. There's an unused Ring of Cone or whatever it's called that actually turns the mage's staff attacks into a forward, short-range cone blast. It's character animations are incomplete (character simply does a T-pose during any normal attack), but it's quite functional.

 

It'd be pretty cool to see a completed version of it, or something similar, via DLC.

[Dakota Strider]

@In Exile:  I have noticed a trend in many of your posts, criticizing aspects in other games if it concerns things like spells or weapons.  Apparently, if they do not do a shipload (I like big boats, and I cannot lie) of damage, apparently they do not meet your standards.  Many of us, actually do like having choices that do not always give the biggest bang for the buck.  Because we like to suck?  No, because we like to role play the character we are playing, and sometimes, things are tough, and the best you can do is poke something with your stick for a couple points of damage.  Or maybe your concept for a mage is not to be an evoker that calls down lightning storms and fireballs, but a mage that does things with finesse, and low-powered damage spells.  Not all styles are right for all players.  I am not trying to diminish the style you play, I have made characters that are min/maxed, myself.  But, there are times when those type of character builds are boring to me, and I like to challenge myself with a build that is not an invincible superhero.  It just seems that you go out of your way to criticize those styles of play.  All styles should be valid.