36 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

I get some people have an obsession with crap builds. I'm not saying games should not have crap builds. I am saying games should strive not to have crap builds on purpose.

It's one thing for a spell or ability to suck. Flashfire in DAI sucks. It's quite another for the abilities to infect the game like a plague, where your choice is just to gimp yourself or not with a build.

That's what sucks so hard about D&D magic. It's almost all a deluge of crap except for a few spells. That's why Sorceror classes worked in BG2s modified 2e/3e hybrid.

I don't think that offering the player more variety and options equates to striving towards "crap builds."  The essence of role playing is selecting a character and then doing what that character would do, which includes learning what that character would learn, even if the decisions are not optimal.  For example, if a mage has an aversion to fire due to some personal tragedy in their past, they are not going to be learning pyromancy, no matter how overpowered it may be or how effective it would be in the upcoming battles against the necromancer lord that's plaguing a nearby village.  This kind of limitation is what adds depth to the characters and helps them fit more realistically into their worlds and the stories of those worlds.  The game stays fresh longer when we are able to play as different characters who have different strengths and weaknesses that are in line with their personalities (such as the mage who enjoys lifting more than scrolls and thus uses his bladed staff as a melee weapon).  Now, I understand that this kind of thing doesn't mean a lot to some players, but this is what separates RPGs from action games.  After all, if we were meant to only use the "best" options, then the game wouldn't even need to ask for the player's input during leveling... wouldn't it make more sense to always auto-level the characters for us, and even respec when appropriate, such as prior to the aforementioned zombie encounter?  The bare minimum we'd need is a choice of class and possibly weapons, although I think crafting could probably be scrapped entirely since the devs could just give us the optimal crafted gear as loot instead... no need to waste the player's time on sub-optimal equipment, right?

[DaemionMoadrin]

I get some people have an obsession with crap builds. I'm not saying games should not have crap builds. I am saying games should strive not to have crap builds on purpose.

It's one thing for a spell or ability to suck. Flashfire in DAI sucks. It's quite another for the abilities to infect the game like a plague, where your choice is just to gimp yourself or not with a build.

That's what sucks so hard about D&D magic. It's almost all a deluge of crap except for a few spells. That's why Sorceror classes worked in BG2s modified 2e/3e hybrid.

 

Not everything needs to be min-maxed... and something it's fun to challenge yourself and try to make a weak build strong.

Often a certain build makes sense from a roleplay perspective. I think I once played a cleric who was a complete pacifist. No weapon and no offensive magic. Only heals and buffs. It was tricky to play and you depend on your party 100% but it was still a lot of fun.

[emark.mark20]

On the topic of hitting bad guys with saves, noticed that dorian's intro scene shows him hitting them with his staff. Why can't I do that?

[JadeDragon]

I was thinking they should give the mages a second weapon like the other classes. While grimoires is nice staves already have the ranged aspect downpact. Instead I think mages second have Lyrium Gauntlets that let mages redirect there magic through punches and kicks. Kinda fusing a monk type class with the mages. Metal Gauntlets that are infused with Lyrium kinda like Fenris that allows mages to be close to mid range attackers. Each Gauntlet can be elemental like staves and they can be used out of the same material templars use to store lyrium that way it wont be harmful to others. And its mage only of course because instead of channeling there mage through staffs for range attacks they put it in there fist to get up close and personal.

[TheTsar_]

On the topic of hitting bad guys with saves, noticed that dorian's intro scene shows him hitting them with his staff. Why can't I do that?

Welcome to DA:I.. Hours of being shown cool things only to be denied being able to use them your self. 

[Merlik]

The auto attack should just automatically switch to some cool, charged staff hits if an enemy gets close. Doing the exact same damage as if you were blasting them.  

[Madrict]

totally would love staff melee combat

[Etragorn]

I built my arcane warrior around passives, persistent effects that use a certain portion of Mana constantly, and effect fields, no need to cast spells. My armor and weapons were chosen around mana regeneration so I could use high drain persistent spells without my mana actually being drained. I kicked major amount of ass and hardly ever took any damage.

I'll have to detail my build so people can see how awesome it was.

[Tremere]

The animation used for sheathing a sword means that you'd be able to cast fewer of some spells in the same amount of time as a mage equipped with a staff would.  That has everything to do with DPS.  Furthermore, staff attacks in Origins always hit unless something physically obstructed the projectile , so arcane warriors would still almost certainly miss with basic attacks more often than a staff wielding mage would.  

 

That said, I do miss the melee staff animations from DA2.  It was a neat little feature.  However, to me at least, it was a little feature so I don't mind its exclusion much personally.

I get what you're saying here, but I'll say again that casting speed (or lack thereof) only tacitly affects dps. It isn't a major factor in regards to calculating dps because it's too arbitrary. For instance, say that my character used the Haste spell that would immediately increase my attack speed. However, if half those attacks miss their intended target, how exactly did that speed increase help my dps? It might look good on paper, but ultimately the speed increase served little to no purpose.

Also, I mentioned that staves barely (if ever) missed their intended target, so clearly we agree on that. Having said that, if you equip said Arcane Warrior with a melee weapon that increases their attack attribute (like Spellweaver), those misses (you mentioned) turn to hits and by your construct, increases their dps... But just like attack speed, this is an arbitrary aspect that may or may not play a part.

One more tidbit... I play Origins with the mod that allows your character to cast spells with their weapon drawn and I can honestly say that I don't see any significant improvement in attack frequency. The mod basically just removes *the bug* (I wasn't aware of this) that forces the character to unequip their weapon before casting spells. It doesn't increase casting speed at all. (And in the context of how slow combat is in Origins... Honestly, how much of a delay is it really?) This (for the sake of clarity) is more or less the basis for my commentary on this subject.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I built my arcane warrior around passives, persistent effects that use a certain portion of Mana constantly, and effect fields, no need to cast spells. My armor and weapons were chosen around mana regeneration so I could use high drain persistent spells without my mana actually being drained. I kicked major amount of ass and hardly ever took any damage.

I'll have to detail my build so people can see how awesome it was.

 

Something like that?

 

[Etragorn]

Something like that?

Exactly, our characters could be sisters!

[DaemionMoadrin]

Exactly, our characters could be sisters!

 

Well, if you play the multiplayer part of the game, then having multiple Nerias in the group is rather common.