76 réponses à ce sujet

[snackrat]

Thye conversation with Wisdom does show up translated in the subtitles, but honestly the Dalish don't rmemerber enough of the elven language to actually converse in it. All they can do is speak common, and pepper it with elven words such as lethalin/lethalan (brother/sister), hahren (elder), dalen (child), ma seranas (my thanks), and so on.

Just as many people who know English as a first language are capable of saying hello, goodbye, please, thanks, and a few choice others in a variety of languages depending on the local culture. I'm capable of peppering a conversation with German but like hell can I converse in it.

 

As it is, I was pleased to see Dalish Inqi can translate the conversation Solas has with Wisdom, and an amount of the shrine by the Ar'Ebalasiin.

[NotBeouwulf]

Ancient Hebrew. A fair number of non-Isreali's will speak modern Hebrew.

Not to get off topic, but even fluency in Modern Hebrew is rare in the US, according to the following link about 200,000 of 5 million American Jews are Hebrew speakers (about 1 in 25 or 4%).

http://www.usefounda...ages/hebrew.pdf

But as you said Ancient Hebrew is an even more apt comparison

[Nyaore]

I truly hope they fix the issue with the Temple of Mythal - if, as Weeke's suggests, it's another bug and our Inquisitor wasn't supposed to be so unbelievably stupid about their own culture. Ancient Elves and the lost lore aside, you should at least have an idea based on what your culture had still scraped together. It really did sound like somewhere, somehow, the lines for a human were mixed up with the ones for the Dalish. 

[Elfyoth]

I will tell you the diffrence betwen ancient hebrew and modern one, after the fall of the second holy temple the jewish pepole didint speak hebrew until Eliezher Ben Yehuda have revived it, during the medival age the jews spoke Iidish at least the eroupean hews, and "hebrew" was only used in prayers, then a person who's name is Eliezer Ben Yehuda have revived it in 1858-1922 and have created new words and such. While the old hebrew is called "Aramit" is the prayer language that was the old hebrew, since I belive elves are based on medival jews, and dalish mostly use the elven language in prayers it makes since... Sorry I am writing from Iphone. Nowdays we Israelis or jews are speaking the modern hebrew that Eliezher have recreated. Though some of the eroupean is origin religeous are still speaking in Iddish, like some eroupean jews. Hope it was an instrensting text I just wrote, and again writing from Iphone so sorry ofr spelling mistakes...

[Addai]

Who says Lavellan didn't understand Nightmare? I figure she got the gist but wasn't too bothered because... well, it's a demon and he's taunting all of them with half-truths and outright lies. And I figure she understands what he says to Abelas, too. There's no indication that she doesn't. Solas was translating for the companions.

 

If she calls out Mihris about the amulet, they speak in elven, so she does know some.

[shinrahunter]

I truly hope they fix the issue with the Temple of Mythal - if, as Weeke's suggests, it's another bug and our Inquisitor wasn't supposed to be so unbelievably stupid about their own culture. Ancient Elves and the lost lore aside, you should at least have an idea based on what your culture had still scraped together. It really did sound like somewhere, somehow, the lines for a human were mixed up with the ones for the Dalish. 

 

Just got to the temple of Mythal now (had to grind out 40 power, so much for a quick story run through!!)
Aaaaannnnd yup. First line of dialogue she asks who Mythal is.
If this is a bug, it's a pretty role play killing one. Or it's a huge oversight on the part of the game's directors.

My Elven inquisitor has never heard of Mythal?!?! haha
Just gona blitz through this area as it just doesn't make sense for her. (luckily I did all th epuzzles etc in my first run anyway)

[BraveVesperia]

The language thing didn't bother me, since the Dalish only seem to know bits of elven (otherwise wouldn't they speak to each other in that language all the time?)

 

What I found frustrating was that Lavellan goes "What's a temple of Mythal?" when Morrigan brings it up. And says things like "maybe this is where the elves worshipped this Mythal". 'This' Mythal? It shouldn't be the first time you've heard that name, silly elf. It's strange, considering that on other occasions in the temple, Lavellan will reference their own culture/race, either in auto dialogue or choices.

[Malkavian]

So the elven Inquisitor is Dalish and the Dalish are pretty much sticklers for all things elven so why is it that when you're playing as a Dalish elf you can't understand Solas? Or the Fear Demon when it speaks to him? Or the other elves?...

I mean, shouldn't it show up in subtitles? I know that would give things away a little and spoil the marvel style ending but you know, it would make sense.
After all 'The Thing' gave away the whole plot in the first 2-3 minutes of the movie if you understand Norwegian....

 

Besides this i also wish to know why my dalish doesn't know who mythal is.

[Texhnolyze101]

So the elven Inquisitor is Dalish and the Dalish are pretty much sticklers for all things elven so why is it that when you're playing as a Dalish elf you can't understand Solas? Or the Fear Demon when it speaks to him? Or the other elves?...

I mean, shouldn't it show up in subtitles? I know that would give things away a little and spoil the marvel style ending but you know, it would make sense.
After all 'The Thing' gave away the whole plot in the first 2-3 minutes of the movie if you understand Norwegian....

 

I agree. Playing as a dalish elf should have been akin to playing a malkavian in VTMB in regards to Solas's background.

[Navasha]

Right... and whats with all these Italians in this world who don't speak Latin anymore?

[In Exile]

The language thing didn't bother me, since the Dalish only seem to know bits of elven (otherwise wouldn't they speak to each other in that language all the time?)

What I found frustrating was that Lavellan goes "What's a temple of Mythal?" when Morrigan brings it up. And says things like "maybe this is where the elves worshipped this Mythal". 'This' Mythal? It shouldn't be the first time you've heard that name, silly elf. It's strange, considering that on other occasions in the temple, Lavellan will reference their own culture/race, either in auto dialogue or choices.

It's likely they just missed the line or a race appropriate line won't fire. Like how Circle mages get to ask Qs about the Circle but do in a way that doesn't show them to have brain damage.

[shinrahunter]

Abelas called my elf a Shemlen, the cheek of it!!
haha, I took so much offense to that, I was like "you might be an elitist ancient elven dick, but atleast acknowledge that I'm not human!"
haha, so much fail when playing an elf

I wonder what he says to teh Qunari?!

[DarkAmaranth1966]

It's like my native language - Salishan - Yes I and a few others speak it but, the majority of my tribe only knows a legend or two in the language and, only the meaning of a few key words in those legends. They would not be able to live life in a village where Salishan were the only language and, cannot converse in it at all. I can but, it's really not much use other than personal pride to know it. The English, Spanish and, Japanese I speak are much more useful. So even I, who grew up speaking Salishan, now have to think about it and, translate from one of my common languages to Salishan to speak it. I imagine ancient Elven is the same for the Dalish and, the inquistor may or may not have had reason to learn much of it.

[Avejajed]

Salishan just sounds like it would be a beautiful language, just by its name.

[Wulfram]

I actually found the Dalish Inquisitor's apparent fluency a little odd.  At least for my warrior, apprentice would be expected to be knowledgeable.

[convergecultist3]

I had this same gripe in Origins playing as a Dalish Warden. There were never any dalish dialogue options, just Andrastian choices. One of the perks of my job, is that we do business with Hutterite colonies. The children only speak their variant of German up to age 6 or 7 i believe. At that time, then they are taught english. Primarily, if they aren't speaking directly to you, they will speak German amongst themselves. I imagine that upbringing would be damn close for Dalish Elves. Since both cultures are vigilant in preserving the past, speaking the language would be a top priority. The only reason why a Dalish Inquisitor can't (fully) understand the conversation between Solas and Abelas is because Bioware doesn't want to spoil the plot, reasons being,

1. A Dalish Inquisitor can understand the conversation between Solas and a Spirit of Wisdom, which is more likely, that a spirit of wisdom speaks ancient elvish or the dalish variant of ancient elvish? Most would say ancient elvish I presume, if a Dalish Inq can understand those two, he/she could understand the conversation between Solas and Abelas.

2. Playing devil's advocate, lets say that Solas and S.O.W. where speaking the dalish variant of ancient elvish, Even though the dalish variant is different than the language of ancient elvish, the roots of the language are based off of the ancient language.  So a dalish inq probably would get an idea of what the two are saying to each other. The Dalish Inquisitor could ask for clarification if needed for a certain word or words in the converstation that didn't make sense. Even if the Dalish Inquisitor couldn't understand a word of the conversation, the most reasonable question would be to Solas, "How/where did you learn ancient elvish." If you don't like the answer he gives you,

3. You could ask Morrigan, she seems to have knowledge about the elvish language. Whether that is the dalish variant or ancient elvish, i don't know. But she could either tell you if she did or didn't understand the conversation between Solas and Abelas.

[CoM Solaufein]

They should have used a city elf since they would be more prone to being ignorant of their past unlike Dalish.

[NotBeouwulf]

I had this same gripe in Origins playing as a Dalish Warden. There were never any dalish dialogue options, just Andrastian choices. One of the perks of my job, is that we do business with Hutterite colonies. The children only speak their variant of German up to age 6 or 7 i believe. At that time, then they are taught english. Primarily, if they aren't speaking directly to you, they will speak German amongst themselves. I imagine that upbringing would be damn close for Dalish Elves. Since both cultures are vigilant in preserving the past, speaking the language would be a top priority. The only reason why a Dalish Inquisitor can't (fully) understand the conversation between Solas and Abelas is because Bioware doesn't want to spoil the plot, reasons being,
1. A Dalish Inquisitor can understand the conversation between Solas and a Spirit of Wisdom, which is more likely, that a spirit of wisdom speaks ancient elvish or the dalish variant of ancient elvish? Most would say ancient elvish I presume, if a Dalish Inq can understand those two, he/she could understand the conversation between Solas and Abelas.
2. Playing devil's advocate, lets say that Solas and S.O.W. where speaking the dalish variant of ancient elvish, Even though the dalish variant is different than the language of ancient elvish, the roots of the language are based off of the ancient language.  So a dalish inq probably would get an idea of what the two are saying to each other. The Dalish Inquisitor could ask for clarification if needed for a certain word or words in the converstation that didn't make sense. Even if the Dalish Inquisitor couldn't understand a word of the conversation, the most reasonable question would be to Solas, "How/where did you learn ancient elvish." If you don't like the answer he gives you,
3. You could ask Morrigan, she seems to have knowledge about the elvish language. Whether that is the dalish variant or ancient elvish, i don't know. But she could either tell you if she did or didn't understand the conversation between Solas and Abelas.

There is no Dalish Elven, Dalish don't speak Elven except for a few phrases.

This is not like Hutterite German, Elven is a dead language.

[_Aine_]

Congratulations, you have fallen in a plot hole!  

 

On the bright side, even the elves don't like elves these days.  Not understanding Elvish, even as an elven soul yourself will only look very "now".  

 

-.-

 

I love it most when Morrigan explains my language to me.  I sort of imagine my Dalish on the floor drooling looking at all the pretty sunbeams while those there smart folk look at the pretty elven script LOL...or alternately rolling his eyes and ignoring the fact that everyone just thinks the elf can't understand a single bit of elvish for some reason.   Dyslexic.  He must be dyslexic....  Or maybe he is just trolling them all:  "Oh nooo, please DO tell me who Mythral is...Mirthfall...Myfall....whatever.  "  

 

Dragon Age:  not entirely kind to elves in general it seems.   I wonder what the ancient northern folk would think of what has been done to their alfr-kind.    Tolkien = Alfar + Tuatha De Dannan + liberal creative bent.   Maybe we are setting up for the ultimate elven comeback here, or maybe they just needed THESE elves to somehow be totally different to "popular culture" elves.  *shrugs*  Who knows, not I.   In many instances elves are considered ancestor spirits, or even gods, so I kind of can understand where they *may* be going with it.... but....

[Patchwork]

There are some languages like korean that have formal and informal speech, because the dalish would have learned learned from scrolls and other stuff found in ruins the majority of what they know would be the formal words. Whereas Solas being who he is would know the full language, not that many would be anything less than 100% respectful towards a god. 

 

Maybe for extra rudeness the Nightmare demon was taunting Solas in with informality. 

[Bayonet Hipshot]

The biggest problem wihth Elven Inquisitors is that they look underfed, have broken arms and have overlarge head...

[Zombie Chow]

I totally hear you guys. Here's a simple comparison, try to read this please:

HWÆT, WE GAR-DEna in geardagum, þeodcyninga þrym gefrunon, hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon!

This is not Elven, nor is it even Jewish. This is English, Old English, the beginning lines of Beowulf. We are speaking English right now, and tbh I can't read that, even though like many of you, I studied this poem as well. It is about a thousand years old, whereas the old Elves fell about 2000 years ago.

Thus, it is not surprising that even the Dalish are unable to read or understand even the spoken words. I compare them to Literature or History majors, who know the stories from modern translations, but would really struggle if they came across the original text. It's kinda why Solas looks down at our Cliff-Notes version of lore.

I can imaged the Dalish Inquisitor, even if a Mage as First of the Keeper, would have a hard time reading the Temple of Mythal writing. There's a war outside, the big bad is coming with a dragon, and now there's this translation homework. WTF. Morrigan, you're a history buff, what do you make of this?

And I loved Morrigan's reading, the way she trailed off. It's so authentic, like she's trying to concentrate and sounding it out in case it helps, then just giving up.

[sylvanaerie]

Maybe...*wink wink nudge nudge* she's quizzing Morrigan to see just how much she (Morrigan) really knows...

[Zombie Chow]

Maybe...*wink wink nudge nudge* she's quizzing Morrigan to see just how much she (Morrigan) really knows...

Totally, or even testing her honesty. Because that whole section she was telling half-truths either because she didn't know or she doesn't want to tell us. She made my Inquisitor all grumpy face.

[Korva]

Patrick Weekes said in a tweet that he had to check to see if there were future spoilers for the Nightmare conversation before he could give an official translation, though, and since he hasn't give out a translation as far as I know...so I guess the answer is that they wanted to avoid spoilers even if the Dalish Quiz understanding would make sense.

 

That isn't really an excuse, since the Nightmare heavily foreshadows Blackwall's secret, too. Given what the Nightmare is and how it works, I don't think it has any interest in outright revealing these two issues to the rest of the team -- that would remove some of the fear, and thus the power it can leech.

 

Hearing about all the inconsistencies and ignorance with an elven Inquisitor makes me question my desire to go with a Dalish mage for my second playthrough. I hate that sort of thing -- it's bad enough how often games treat the protagonist as a total ignoramus over things that s/he should know, and this sounds like a particularly bad example.