86 réponses à ce sujet

[AlexMBrennan]

Imprisoning a professional spy turned double-agent seems doomed. To. Fail.

You might be surprised to find out that we occasionally interrogate prisoners.

Leliana can't allow chantry leader that contradicts the inquisition or you have a holy war waiting to happen.

You are wrong - the question with the soldiers is very simple: there is a massive war going on, and inquisition forces will take casualties. There is absolutely no way to avoid this. As such, the non-pragmatic dialogue choices make me think that this person should not be in charge of an army during a war - the horde of red Templars isn't going to go away if we hide in the basement.

In the other hand, some chantry official maybe trying to sway the chantry against the inquisition is much less urgent - they are neither able to interfere with your operation in the short term (kinda hard to raise troops for an exalted March on Skyhold while red Templar abominations are everywhere killing all your subjects), and nor is killing the nun the only way of dealing with the problem (e.g. Use diplomacy to avoid holy war).

Leliana's reaction simply doesn't make sense - unless you express the opinion that it's completely unthinkable that people could die in war, she will completely fail to grasp why you're not happy to see her murder all the loose ends. Conversely, she will utterly fail to grasp that you can learn stuff by interrogating prisoners instead of just killing them.

It's like they write a variety of options but had to cut all but the two most extreme ones for budget reasons.

[TevinterSupremacist]

I found what they did to "hardened" Leliana to be a bit of perversion of her in origins. If you harden her in da:o, she basically embraces she likes killing and orlesian bard/indulgence stuff and gives up on being chantry-focused. Now suddendly hardening her means making her Terminator-Chantry edition. What gives?

[AWTEW]

I prefer her hardened, and the way to soften her was really out of place..and seemd like appeasment. After what she has gone through, and then suddenly you choose some options shes all back to nicenes..lol wat.

[Patchwork]

Once hardened Leliana becomes Divine the Inquisition and the Inquisitor better stay on her good side or at least be too vital to her plans to kill because no-one knows the organisation like Leliana.

 

Hardened or softened the new spy master is going be one of her people, ultimately loyal to Leliana not the Inquisition.   

[Essorance]

Soft leliana makes sense for her character in DAO and hard leliana makes sense for her character in DAI, IMO, as she fills different roles in either game.

[Ferretinabun]

You have to be reeeeally fluffy in every dialogue with her. There's no room for pragmatism, pragmatism means ruthlessness (apparently).

 

Really since you have to do some specific things for her to NOT end up ruthless, it's more of a 'softening'. Don't let her kill the spy (refusing to intervene still leaves her ruthless). Pull back the scouts. Don't kill the sister.

 

Those first two - especially the spy - really bother me. Butler killed a man. Knows the others. She wanted to kill him cleanly. Painlessly, if possible. That's already the most practical option without disregarding him as a person. Imprisoning a professional spy turned double-agent seems doomed. To. Fail. (Though he's never mentioned again so I suppose if he was in the cells of Haven, he may have been... left there. But Alexius/Knight Whatsit comes with you.)

As for the scouts, scouting is their JOB. I don't believe in the idea of soldier's under my command being xpendable but hiding them all in Skyhold for fear of losing a single one just isn't realistic.

 

Yeah, this.

 

I don't mind the idea of 'softening' Leliana, but I don't think the instances we have do a very good job of establishing 'compassion' or 'faith' over 'ruthlessness'. 

[McAllyster]

One question though...

 

In DA:O my mage warden was romanced with Leliana, but in the end he sacrificed himself to defeat the Archdemon. In this state is it possible to soften Leliana - or the loss of my warden is hardened her too much?

[Xx Serissia xX]

Leliana either loses or is betrayed by everyone she loves with the exception of the HoF (if you let her live and/or romanced her without doing the US).  Her mother, Marjolaine, Revered Mother (name not given) from Lothering and Divine Justinia V.  I doubt she was playing with a full deck of cards from the get go.

[9TailsFox]

Yes she is crazy I was honestly scared.

[In Exile]

Leliana either loses or is betrayed by everyone she loves with the exception of the HoF (if you let her live and/or romanced her without doing the US). Her mother, Marjolaine, Revered Mother (name not given) from Lothering and Divine Justinia V. I doubt she was playing with a full deck of cards from the get go.

She thought the Maker was basically directly talking to her in DAO, which is really a heretical idea to start with in-setting. Leliana was never the most grounded.

[JackisGOAT]

Either way Leliana scares the crap out of me. Just started the Josie romance and im scared shes going to cut off my balls while i sleep....
Damn my Warden found himself a keeper.
*digs crazy chicks crew*

[Texhnolyze101]

What happened to Leliana? By the end of the game she's ruthless. By the way, loved her story arc.

But really, what's with her?

 

In my game she became the divine and is kiling those who oppose to her

 

As it should be.

[Han Shot First]

I found what they did to "hardened" Leliana to be a bit of perversion of her in origins. If you harden her in da:o, she basically embraces she likes killing and orlesian bard/indulgence stuff and gives up on being chantry-focused. Now suddendly hardening her means making her Terminator-Chantry edition. What gives?

 

The Divine died.

 

Leliana takes the assassination personally, has a crisis of faith, and takes a dark turn. If you go the route where the Inquisitor softens her up you are pulling her back from that.

 

I agree with much of what AlexMBrennan wrote (top post of the page) regarding how that was implemented, but I think the decision to have Leliana go hardcore in reaction to the destruction of the Conclave was fine. I thought it was believable.

 

Also in some ways Leliana was just reverting to old form. Because Leliana mostly has a sweet disposition in Dragon Age: Origins, and is fairly cheerful, people sometimes lose sight of what her background was before becoming a Chantry nun. The Bards in Orlais are spies and assassins, and the henchmen of scheming nobles playing the Great Game. Leliana had done some fairly awful stuff before you meet her in Origins.

[BloodyTalon]

You know was thinking about it, given if the game is moving north and to where most are thinking who is divine may matter lots....may be key to if there is a march going on or not, and if the imperium is viewing the south a little differently cause say a mage is on the sunburst throne

Ruthless Leliana I could very much see declaring a few marches against those who she sees has indirectly  to blame for killing her mentor...so lol will be interesting come next game or expasion.

[Cantina]

Trying to unhardened Lilly, my first attempt failed.

 

Stopped her from killing Butler

 

Told her our people are not tools to be discarded.

 

Stopped her from killing Natalie.

 

Yet on that play through, she became hardened.

 

On my second attempt to have a go at it again.

[In Exile]

The Divine died.

Leliana takes the assassination personally, has a crisis of faith, and takes a dark turn. If you the route where the Inquisitor softens her up you are pulling her back from that.

I agree with much of what AlexMBrennan wrote (top post of the page) regarding how that was implemented, but I think the decision to have Leliana go harcore in reaction to the destruction of the Conclave was fine. I thought it was believable.

Also in some ways Leliana was just reverting to old form. Because Leliana mostly has a sweet disposition in Dragon Age: Origins, and is fairly cheerful, people sometimes lose sight of what her background was before becoming a Chantry nun. The Bards in Orlais are spies and assassins, and the henchmen of scheming nobles playing the Great Game. Leliana had done some fairly awful stuff before you meet her in Origins.

It's not just a crisis of faith. It's how Justinia tarnished her over a decade. While Cassandra was her battering ram, Leliana was her assassin and spy. Whatever shadow war she waged, Leliana was her instrument. And then she died, and the world went to hell. All of the things she reduced herself to doing in the name of faith haunt her now. Which is why she wants to justify her grimdark choices.

If you don't soften her and tell her to get over how she was used in her inner circle quest, she absolutely loses it. She needs to believe grimdark choices are necessary because she can't live with herself otherwise.

[Draining Dragon]

Basically, Bioware wrote her as a psychopath who can't string two rational thoughts together without brutally murdering someone.

As Alistair would put it, we went from "Ooh, pretty flowers" to "I am Princess Stabbity, stab, kill, kill!"

[BloodyTalon]

Trying to unhardened Lilly, my first attempt failed.

 

Stopped her from killing Butler

 

Told her our people are not tools to be discarded.

 

Stopped her from killing Natalie.

 

Yet on that play through, she became hardened.

 

On my second attempt to have a go at it again.

Sounds like a bug or some of the war table missions influnce her.

[BloodyTalon]

Basically, Bioware wrote her as a psychopath who can't string two rational thoughts together without brutally murdering someone.

As Alistair would put it, we went from "Ooh, pretty flowers" to "I am Princess Stabbity, stab, kill, kill!"

More wrote her has someone who gave everything to her mentor, and had ben doing nothing but wet work since becoming left hand of the divine....wet work for long points in time messess with someone's head, why certian special forces require regualur psych checks and so on from my understanding.

Add thatt onto someone who lost someone who saved their life and was a idol to them....its bound to end bad if a light touch isn't used to help redirect the,

They wrote her fine, they could have gone more indepth but the point came across clear.

Modifié par BloodyTalon, 01 janvier 2015 - 05:27 .

[Marakov7]

I'm doing a playthrough where I'll take every choice that involves Leliana's people killing people. I hope she's a frothing-at-the-mouth, blood-crazed homicidal maniac at the end who has to be put down like a rabid dog. I do like Leliana and went a completely different route on my first couple of playthroughs (with limited success), but I'm curious about her howling-at-the-moon side.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

I like both. Softening her gets a happier, more balanced woman, a better divine that tries to see all sides and, find something useful even in her enemies. A hardened Lil is definitely good for making people fear and respect the Inquisition and, if she's divine, it's going to be her way or no way which, given how easily most of the peoples of Thedas jump to war, isn't a bad thing.

[line_genrou]

The Divine died.

 

Leliana takes the assassination personally, has a crisis of faith, and takes a dark turn. If you the route where the Inquisitor softens her up you are pulling her back from that.

 

I agree with much of what AlexMBrennan wrote (top post of the page) regarding how that was implemented, but I think the decision to have Leliana go harcore in reaction to the destruction of the Conclave was fine. I thought it was believable.

 

Also in some ways Leliana was just reverting to old form. Because Leliana mostly has a sweet disposition in Dragon Age: Origins, and is fairly cheerful, people sometimes lose sight of what her background was before becoming a Chantry nun. The Bards in Orlais are spies and assassins, and the henchmen of scheming nobles playing the Great Game. Leliana had done some fairly awful stuff before you meet her in Origins.

Justinia saying that she failed Leliana makes me understand that she failed in changing Leliana for the best

[frostajulie]

I felt my Leiliana lost in when she talks about the HoF who romanced her but killed her.  She was ll like I was so enraged that I started a fight I couldn't win, I died, but got over it and love the HoF and can't wait to be together.  Leils hon, thats an abusive relationship right there.

 

I figured it was an oversight since although the HoF killed her she still says she fought at her side to slay the archdemon in Denerim when no she didn't because she forced Aura Surana to kill her at the urn.  Even though Aura loved her Leils gave her no choice.

[ashlover mark 2]

I felt my Leiliana lost in when she talks about the HoF who romanced her but killed her.  She was ll like I was so enraged that I started a fight I couldn't win, I died, but got over it and love the HoF and can't wait to be together.  Leils hon, thats an abusive relationship right there.

Wtf lol for real? Damn that's new.

[errantknight]

Yes she is crazy I was honestly scared.

When she warned my inquisitor off flirting with Josephine unless he was *really* serious, my inquisitor backed the hell off. She was scary. And I don't think she was even hardened, although I'm not sure. Vivienne was divine.