53 réponses à ce sujet

[rda]

T

You'd have more of a point if this were happening in, say, March. But this is the holiday season - give people a chance to actually take time off and travel for the holidays, to spend some time decorating the tree or lighting the menorah, going to their kids' holiday pageants, baking holiday treats and visiting or hosting out-of-town relatives. You'll get your patch sometime soon, relax. 
 
One other thing to keep in mind - many of these issues were likely not foreseen; certainly not the negative reaction to the PC controls (I personally didn't have a problem with them). So you're on crunch time in October to get this game out by November, and crunch sucks because crunch always sucks. So you're looking forward to your holiday vacation, which you know is going to happen because HR has told you the building will be closed for three weeks. So you buy plane tickets or train tickets or make hotel reservations or make plans with your relatives or out of town friends and get house sitters and pet sitters and plant sitters. You make plans to send the kids to grandma's from December 30 to January 1 so you can get some desperately needed alone time with your spouse. You plan to meet up with your old gaming buddies in your hometown and play D&D all night, like you used to do when you were younger. You spend weeks setting these plans up, spending money on reservations. You're excited to release the game - not just because it's something you're proud to have worked on, but also because release means it's vacation time. 
 
And then your manager comes to you and says, "You're going to need to cancel your vacation plans because the combat controls just aren't up to rda's standards yet."

I've had this happen to me in the industry I was in. Everyone knew vacation plans were tenuous and based on the needs of the product release at the time.

Sure, it sucks, but you know what the deal is in the industry, and as long as the company takes care of you on the back side, you deal with it.

Now, sure, if management tells you to stay while they take off for a 3 week cruise of the Rivera, there will be a revolt. But as long as management sticks around and shares in the pain, you deal. And then when things calm down a bit more, you reward your employees with bonuses and extra vacation, because when the sh!t hit the fan, they took care of it.

[TeraBat]

You'd think that a successful game release (the game went gold based on preorders alone [I did my part!]) and already getting 2 patches out would earn the workers some vacation time. That sounds like 'things calming down' to me. 

 

Because you know what EA can do? They can look and see just how many hours people have spent playing their game, on all platforms. I dunno what the total is, but I've contributed 200+ hours to that tally already. On PC. 

 

So what should EA believe? A few people complaining online that combat controls aren't perfect to their specifications? Or the fact that people are nevertheless logging BAJILLIONS of hours, despite this 'word of mouth', playing their game? 

 

"Eleventy million gamers have already played seventy bajillion hours of Dragon Age. Have a merry Christmas, happy Hannukah and festive New Year, see y'all back in a few weeks." 

[Farangbaa]

Wait for Pillars of Eternity, there is no hope for decent PC version for this game.

Ah yes. Cause that's what you people do.

You find the next game that isn't released yet, get all hyped about it and imagine all the cool things it will do.

Then it gets released, half your fantasies aren't in it. You break down, get angry on the forums and find another game to get hyped about.

The cycle cannot be stopped.

[rda]

You'd think that a successful game release (the game went gold based on preorders alone [I did my part!]) and already getting 2 patches out would earn the workers some vacation time. That sounds like 'things calming down' to me. 
 
Because you know what EA can do? They can look and see just how many hours people have spent playing their game, on all platforms. I dunno what the total is, but I've contributed 200+ hours to that tally already. On PC. 
 
So what should EA believe? A few people complaining online that combat controls aren't perfect to their specifications? Or the fact that people are nevertheless logging BAJILLIONS of hours, despite this 'word of mouth', playing their game? 
 
"Eleventy million gamers have already played seventy bajillion hours of Dragon Age. Have a merry Christmas, happy Hannukah and festive New Year, see y'all back in a few weeks."

You have lost all credibility with me due to the fact that you apparently don't know what going gold means. It has nothing to do with sales figures.

[TeraBat]

You have lost all credibility with me due to the fact that you apparently don't know what going gold means. It has nothing to do with sales figures.

 

Wevs. I just came here to defend BioWare against pointless nerd rage. Happy New Year, I hope you one day find a game which meets all your expectations out of the box. 

[rda]

Wevs. I just came here to defend BioWare against pointless nerd rage. Happy New Year, I hope you one day find a game which meets all your expectations out of the box.

Yes, because there's absolutely no middle ground between "meets all expectations out of the box" and "goes incommunicado for weeks at a time with PC controls and UI still broken".

[TeraBat]

Yes, because there's absolutely no middle ground between "meets all expectations out of the box" and "goes incommunicado for weeks at a time with PC controls and UI still broken".

 

Except they aren't broken. You may not personally like them, but the game is playable. Go other places on this forum, find people on their 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even moreth playthrough. If the game were actually broken, that wouldn't be possible. Be grateful that EA is working hard to distance themselves from the days of EA Spouse and establish themselves and their studios as good places to work which are respectful of their workers. Because that's the only way to attract talented workers, and talented workers are the only way to get good games. 

[Dreamer]

This vacation was necessary. Without a doubt, everyone at BioWare was working pantloads of overtime to get this game out by deadline. They gave up seeing their families for many, many weeks so they could deliver this game unto you before Thanksgiving. BioWare is not going to put them back on crunch during holiday season - that's a horrible way to treat your workers. Not only do they need a break after the stress of crunch, but they also need a chance to see their families and relax around them during the holidays. Otherwise, good and talented people will burn out, quit and DA4 will get just a little bit worse because BioWare got a reputation for being one of THOSE video game companies. 

 

Be grateful BioWare is a company that treats its workers with respect; or the next Dragon Age will have more in common with Homefront than Inquisition. 

 

You realize that "crunch" is a horrible way to treat your workers, right? In the same way that knowingly releasing a product too early is a horrible way to treat your customers.

[TeraBat]

You realize that "crunch" is a horrible way to treat your workers, right? In the same way that knowingly releasing a product too early is a horrible way to treat your customers.

 

It depends on how long and how demanding crunch is. Six to eight weeks of overtime is generally considered an acceptable level of crunch; but only if it comes with some decompression time right afterward. 

[Dreamer]

It depends on how long and how demanding crunch is. Six to eight weeks of overtime is generally considered an acceptable level of crunch; but only if it comes with some decompression time right afterward. 

 

Acceptable to who? The executives? Directors? Crunch is easily the most lamented aspect of working in dev.

[TeraBat]

I like how one person here is arguing that crunch is just part of the industry and that people who work in it should accept things like having their vacation plans cancelled last minute; and another person is arguing that crunch is awful. 

 

Seriously - either crunch is horrible and you'll have to wait even longer for games & patches as studios refuse to let their workers put in overtime to release a game; or crunch is an acceptable part of working in games but further means that worker vacations need to be preserved to prevent burnout. 

[Dreamer]

I like how one person here is arguing that crunch is just part of the industry and that people who work in it should accept things like having their vacation plans cancelled last minute; and another person is arguing that crunch is awful. 

 

Seriously - either crunch is horrible and you'll have to wait even longer for games & patches as studios refuse to let their workers put in overtime to release a game; or crunch is an acceptable part of working in games but further means that worker vacations need to be preserved to prevent burnout. 

 

Or... and I know this might sound crazy to some...

 

Publishers can learn to set realistic expectations and not overwork (crunch) their teams? Extended vacations would suddenly become unnecessary.

[frankf43]

I like how one person here is arguing that crunch is just part of the industry and that people who work in it should accept things like having their vacation plans cancelled last minute; and another person is arguing that crunch is awful. 

 

Seriously - either crunch is horrible and you'll have to wait even longer for games & patches as studios refuse to let their workers put in overtime to release a game; or crunch is an acceptable part of working in games but further means that worker vacations need to be preserved to prevent burnout. 

 

Sometimes you need a break to see the wood for the trees. Let them have their break and come back refreshed and sort out all the problems that are still in the game. 

 

Then again I would say that as the only problem I've had is 2 CTD's in the last 2 weeks. Someone who still can't play the game might think differently.

[Krathax]

OK, I guess I'll count my lucky stars that PS4 gamers seem the happiest of the bunch then.  The game was the reason I bought the console when I did, and its paid off!

 

PC patch 1 users are still happy =)

[TeraBat]

Or... and I know this might sound crazy to some...

 

Publishers can learn to set realistic expectations and not overwork (crunch) their teams? Extended vacations would suddenly become unnecessary.

 

Yeah, but then you still have customers with unrealistic expectations who would rather people work through the holidays to give them their patch right the eff now. 

[Dreamer]

Yeah, but then you still have customers with unrealistic expectations who would rather people work through the holidays to give them their patch right the eff now. 

 

If you're insinuating that this is the case with Inquisition, I'd suggest that there'd be fewer unhappy voices had the game not been rushed out the door.

[ApocAlypsE007]

Ah yes. Cause that's what you people do.

You find the next game that isn't released yet, get all hyped about it and imagine all the cool things it will do.

Then it gets released, half your fantasies aren't in it. You break down, get angry on the forums and find another game to get hyped about.

The cycle cannot be stopped.

Spoiler

It was an attempt to bait interesting responses. Actually I have the PC version, and when I get to play it (I study in university and only have access to the PC that DAI installed in weekends) I enjoy it very much, outside few CTD I didn't experience any significant problem despite my 1.5 years old budget PC. I won't cry if PoE sucks ass, there is always the other PoE (Path of Exile),

[In Exile]

T
I've had this happen to me in the industry I was in. Everyone knew vacation plans were tenuous and based on the needs of the product release at the time.

Sure, it sucks, but you know what the deal is in the industry, and as long as the company takes care of you on the back side, you deal with it.

Now, sure, if management tells you to stay while they take off for a 3 week cruise of the Rivera, there will be a revolt. But as long as management sticks around and shares in the pain, you deal. And then when things calm down a bit more, you reward your employees with bonuses and extra vacation, because when the sh!t hit the fan, they took care of it.

I work in one of the most demand (hours-wise) industry in North America. And the driving force behind our hours is client needs/urgency. A videogame is not that urgent.

Telling people to work long hours over the holidays because a product had to ship with bugs because of the unrealistic timeline you came up with in the first place is probably the shittiest thing you can do in the software business.

[metatheurgist]

Yep, they sure do.

But, there are certain industries, say, entertainment, for example, that relies heavily on word of mouth, and has schedules that are irregular and focused around the product's release. One would think if you got into this industry, you wouldn't expect long vacations around product release.

And let's just say that our fictional company, let's call it "Wiobare" released a very buggy product, say, a video game, around the holidays. Now, the holidays are traditionally a time when people buy and consume our product. Now, as the CEO of Wiobare, do you:

A ) say, "Fudge it! Everyone go on vacation. Sure, the most vocal of our customers (PC gamers) are extremely dissatisfied with our buggy product, leading to bad word of mouth, but who cares? It's the holidays, right? Let's tell them we're working on it and then not communicate at all for 3-4 weeks."

Or

B ) say, "Sorry guys. Vacations are going to have to be pushed back. We need to fix this before it turns into majorly poor word-of-mouth. Take off Christmas Eve and Christmas, but otherwise we're going to need you in the office."

A. Every time. I'm not a fan of the new DA but I'd never want to live in a world where a video game is more important then the lives and family of real people.

[Giantdeathrobot]

Yes, because there's absolutely no middle ground between "meets all expectations out of the box" and "goes incommunicado for weeks at a time with PC controls and UI still broken".

 

Broken means it wouldn't work for anyone. I find the controls fine (apart from the tactical camera indoors), and the UI is good enough. Do not presume to speak for me.

[Panda]

I just hope they would soon fix the game for PS3 and XBOX360. It's ridiculous how bad it still is.

[Jaron Oberyn]

There is a report from some guy in EA forum that deeply looked in DA:I system (don't remember who that was, maybe he was even important). The short version is that the game is too fundamentaly broken to be fixed in a quick patch. So, 80% patch 2 is probably the last big patch we get, as it will be not cost effective to make a big patch addressed to 10% of the playerbase.

 

Wait for Pillars of Eternity, there is no hope for decent PC version for this game.

My dad's best friend's plumber has an uncle who is cousins twice removed with another dude who answers the phones at EA HQ, who said that this is legit.

 

 

This all sounds like a bunch of nonsense.

That doesn't even begin to describe the contents of that post.

[ApocAlypsE007]

My dad's best friend's plumber has an uncle who is cousins twice removed with another dude who answers the phones at EA HQ, who said that this is legit.

 

 

That doesn't even begin to describe the contents of that post.

bah found it
http://answers.ea.co...126271#U4126271

TL DR: bad PC port is bad, bad Frostbite 3 engine is bad. problems in the deepest programming levels. Don't expect a patch to fix it.

[Ravenfeeder]

It depends on how long and how demanding crunch is. Six to eight weeks of overtime is generally considered an acceptable level of crunch; but only if it comes with some decompression time right afterward. 

More than two weeks of crunch (by which I mean 10+ hour days, 6 or 7 days a week) is too much. Quality of output will decline dramatically after that. Even Henry Ford knew not to overwork his staff and he's the arch-capitalist.

[DragonAgeLegend]

There is a report from some guy in EA forum that deeply looked in DA:I system (don't remember who that was, maybe he was even important). The short version is that the game is too fundamentaly broken to be fixed in a quick patch. So, 80% patch 2 is probably the last big patch we get, as it will be not cost effective to make a big patch addressed to 10% of the playerbase.
 
Wait for Pillars of Eternity, there is no hope for decent PC version for this game.

If that's true, Bioware will be sure to leave a sour taste in my mouth.