123 réponses à ce sujet

[myahele]

I wish there was an option to take them into the inquisition if you have a perk instead of just killing or letting them roam free.

With that said these mages learned from their mistakes which means that they'll make sure not to use the same techniques as they did with the 1st summoning ritual IF choose to do it.

[WardenWade]

I stopped Solas.  He mentions that demons are spirits with their purposes perverted and it seemed to me that in addition to him perhaps regretting it later, killing these mages for the death of his spirit friend would have been a similar perversion of his purpose for being there.  Equally tragic, not what Wisdom would likely have wanted and not a way I think he'd have wanted to remember her positive effect on his life.  He disapproves of being stopped, but it felt to me like tarnishing the memory of his friend for vengeance.

 

Plus, the mages were indeed being preyed on by bandits and their fear for their lives was legitimate.

 

I stopped Cole as well, for similar reasons, and Solas approves of that IIRC.

[Kingthlayer]

Does he gain disapproval if you stop him?  Or kill the demon before it can be set free?

 

I want to get the punch Solas scene after romancing him in my last run(because every run has to be different or there is no point in playing a second time)

 

But at the same time I don't want to tailor my playthrough around this one scene, so I still make choices that he approves of(well I assume he approves of exiling the Wardens since he disapproved when I brought them in last time around)  so I need to try to get as much disapproval from him while still playing the game I want.

[zestalyn]

Meh, I let her kill the traitor. She seems pretty much the same to me. I guess I hardened her though, which I think is good. I don't think either Solas or Leliana are such delicate flowers that they can't handle a little killing after all the killing they've already done up to this point. They know themselves well enough by now. Leliana was already doing this years ago. Whatever, I'm not the ******'s babysitter. She's a grown ass woman. Solas is a grown ass man/elf/god.

 

Hardened Leliana can become the Divine that kills any of those who opposes her. If you're cool with watching the people around you become merciless tyrants, then that's your flow dude. No need to get worked up about it. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Hardened Leliana can become the Divine that kills any of those who opposes her. If you're cool with watching the people around you become merciless tyrants, then that's your flow dude. No need to get worked up about it. 

You think because I use profanity that I'm worked up? Lol, no I just have a potty mouth.

 

And I don't make Leliana divine anyway, as she is an airhead, but if I did, I'd approve. Sometimes, the world needs a heavy hand, not coddling. I see that ending as more realistic than her mary sue honeypie MLP handholding in the sunset ending.

[Gambit458]

Meh, I let her kill the traitor. She seems pretty much the same to me. I guess I hardened her though, which I think is good. I don't think either Solas or Leliana are such delicate flowers that they can't handle a little killing after all the killing they've already done up to this point. They know themselves well enough by now. Leliana was already doing this years ago. Whatever, I'm not the ******'s babysitter. She's a grown ass woman. Solas is a grown ass man/elf/god.

Boy, sounds like someone needs to replay Dragon Age Origins if they think killing doesn't bother Leliana. Yes she was doing it years ago but she also says that's part of why she went to the Chantry. She wanted to leave that life behind. You sound like Marjolanne 

[Colonelkillabee]

Boy, sounds like someone needs to replay Dragon Age Origins if they think killing doesn't bother Leliana. Yes she was doing it years ago but she also says that's part of why she went to the Chantry. She wanted to leave that life behind. You sound like Marjolanne 

Well, can't deny that I share a dislike in Leliana with Marjolanne, so that's likely why. I really don't care about Leliana, but killing bothering her doesn't mean that she's going to be so broken that she can't function. She'll be alright, more or less.

 

If not, **** 'em.

[zestalyn]

You think because I use profanity that I'm worked up? Lol, no I just have a potty mouth.

 

And I don't make Leliana divine anyway, as she is an airhead, but if I did, I'd approve. Sometimes, the world needs a heavy hand, not coddling. I see that ending as more realistic than her mary sue honeypie MLP handholding in the sunset ending.

 

It sounded like you were about to go off on an off-topic tangent. Whether you make Leli your Divine is irrelevant. The point still stands that this game provides scenarios showing how actions can affect the directions of one's personality. If you want characters to get their way by putting a 'heavy hand', it's your game, harden whoever you want, it's not my concern. 

[Colonelkillabee]

It sounded like you were about to go off on an off-topic tangent. Whether you make Leli your Divine is irrelevant. The point still stands that this game provides scenarios showing how actions can affect the directions of one's personality. If you want characters to get their way by putting a 'heavy hand', it's your game, harden whoever you want, it's not my concern. 

 

You were the one that brought up the divine business and I simply said that this doesn't effect me due to this comment:

 

 

If you're cool with watching the people around you become merciless tyrants, then that's your flow dude. No need to get worked up about it. 

 

Which really didn't make any sort of sense in relation to my comment.

 

Anyway, the point is, killing in revenge for Solas does not mean the same thing for a spirit. Leliana turning into a dick isn't the same as Cole losing his very being.

[5ubzer0]

 

@Subzer0. I really can't believe that the mages were truly unaware of what they were doing. They have to resist a demon to pass their Harrowing which from the start shows them how dangerous spirits can be. Not only that but I'm pretty sure they're taught about spirits, I know they're taught about the dangers of blood magic, and other things. This group though did what they did based off what they read in a book. For being mages, they should have known better. 

 

You make a valid point, but I am not sure I agree. As someone who has played mages in all three games, it was still a completely novel idea to me when Solas talked about how pride demons turn out to be spirits of wisdom (or was it purpose?) for those who approach them with an uncorrupted mind. Even after reading the lore, I don't fully understand how the spirit/demon classification works.

 

From what I remember the mages attempted to summon a demon for protection, but unfortunately made a mistake and summoned a spirit instead. However, Solas says in a conversation about the fade that if you expect a demon then this is what you will see. Now I don't believe the mages knew that the creature they contained in their summoning circle was a friendly spirit. To me it looked very much like the pride demon we killed in the tutorial and without Solas present I would not have known differently.

[Jaison1986]

I would let him kill them. They literally did the equivalent of kidnapping Solas friend, torture her and then brainwash her into a mindless killer. It would be pretty selfish and insensitive for the Inquisitor to step in the way.

[Addai]

Does he gain disapproval if you stop him?  Or kill the demon before it can be set free?

He does give a Disapprove if you stop him killing the mages, and Greatly Disapproves if you kill the spirit without trying to free it, though he turns most of his ire on the mages. Also if you're maxing disapproval, don't ask him where he went or what death is like for spirits.

[Korva]

Does he gain disapproval if you stop him?  Or kill the demon before it can be set free?

 

He "disapproves" if you stop him. No idea about killing the demon, I'd never do that.

[zestalyn]

You were the one that brought up the divine business and I simply said that this doesn't effect me due to this comment:

 

 

 

Which really didn't make any sort of sense in relation to my comment.

 

Anyway, the point is, killing in revenge for Solas does not mean the same thing for a spirit. Leliana turning into a dick isn't the same as Cole losing his very being.

 

The divine business is the prime example of what hardened Leliana becomes. Obviously she'd be just as ruthless if not made Divine. 

 

If I can help my friends from becoming insensitive killers, I'd do something because I would not want them to change for what I think is for the worse. Solas didn't want Cole risk become a demon. Same line of thought IMO. Intervene for the sake of preventing someone turning for the worse.  

[Colonelkillabee]

The divine business is the prime example of what hardened Leliana becomes. Obviously she'd be just as ruthless if not made Divine. 

 

If I can help my friends from becoming insensitive killers, I'd do something because I would not want them to change for what I think is for the worse. Solas didn't want Cole risk become a demon. Same line of thought IMO. Intervene for the sake of preventing someone turning for the worse.  

Can't be a tyrant if she's not ruling anything. Yes I get she's still a dick, but it doesn't effect me, so I don't care. She's not dead, lol. Perhaps being less idealistic will do her some good.

 

It's cute what you said, but yea, no there's a big difference between "demons" and an actual demon, which would result in us having to kill Cole and Cole losing himself forever. Regardless of your opinion on how you think this would effect Solas, which we obviously already disagree on as well.

[Above Good and Evil]

You make a valid point, but I am not sure I agree. As someone who has played mages in all three games, it was still a completely novel idea to me when Solas talked about how pride demons turn out to be spirits of wisdom (or was it purpose?) for those who approach them with an uncorrupted mind. Even after reading the lore, I don't fully understand how the spirit/demon classification works.

 

From what I remember the mages attempted to summon a demon for protection, but unfortunately made a mistake and summoned a spirit instead. However, Solas says in a conversation about the fade that if you expect a demon then this is what you will see. Now I don't believe the mages knew that the creature they contained in their summoning circle was a friendly spirit. To me it looked very much like the pride demon we killed in the tutorial and without Solas present I would not have known differently.

So they were knowingly trying to bind a DEMON? Oh God, that's an even bigger reason for killing them now. Merrill at least made precautions and told Hawke to kill her if anything went off; these guys were literally trying to summon a monster then play it off as ignorance. I'm sorry, but I at least thought they were trying to summon a spirit to aid them, but now from what's said here they were just trying to summon a demon and failed to make the proper wards regardless.....yeah, they're dying in every playthrough now. 

I have more liberal views of Blood Magic, but summoning a demon is where you cross the line of no return. Hell, we were killing Wardens partly because they were summoning demons. These Mages are no exception, and the Wardens were at least doing it for a good cause. 

[Addai]

So they were knowingly trying to bind a DEMON? Oh God, that's an even bigger reason for killing them now. Merrill at least made precautions and told Hawke to kill her if anything went off; these guys were literally trying to summon a monster then play it off as ignorance. I'm sorry, but I at least thought they were trying to summon a spirit to aid them, but now from what's said here they were just trying to summon a demon and failed to make the proper wards regardless.....yeah, they're dying in every playthrough now. 

I have more liberal views of Blood Magic, but summoning a demon is where you cross the line of no return. Hell, we were killing Wardens partly because they were summoning demons. These Mages are no exception, and the Wardens were at least doing it for a good cause. 

Er... no, they say they tried to summon a spirit. It probably wasn't blood magic. They ask for lyrium potions. And they did set wards. What do you think you have to destroy during the quest?

 

Summoning a spirit and binding it for your purposes appears to be a tactic mages have long used in various situations. Besides the Tevinter who do it for cheap labor and the Nevarrans who do it for their death cult, someone bound a spirit on Sundermount, and Merill took advantage. The Dalish clan in TME did it to learn about the eluvians- that's Imshael. It's also not completely unheard of that spirits and demons are really the same thing. Merrill says this, though she also says that all spirits are dangerous (which is true, really). The mages are out on a limb but using theories they've heard about to try to save their own lives. If you were in mortal danger and there were a weapon at your disposal, you would at least try to use it, I'm sure.

[dgcatanisiri]

My first Inquisitor stopped him, my second let him go ahead, and I really don't know where I fall. With Anaan Adaar, the first Inquisitor, it was a thought of 'these mages were scared and desperate, messing with something beyond their abilities in an attempt to protect themselves.' For Malcolm Trevalyen, the second Inquisitor, it was 'you idiots should have known better, I'm not going to protect you from your own stupidity.'

 

I don't know what's going to happen with future Inquisitors. It was mentioned upthread the idea that Solas killing them is almost a perversion of the reason they went there in the first place, which I kinda agree with. This was a mission of rescue, of mercy. Slaughtering them for what is essentially a crime of ignorance seems a little too harsh to me. But I think it'll depend on what I think works best for my Inquisitors.

[Korva]

As I said, some "middle ground" would have been good there, though it's hard to imagine what that might be. There's not much in the way of safe places for mages -- safe for both them and others, as the Circles should have been. And they're definitely not smart and skilled enough for me to want to recruit them, nevermind that would feel like kicking Solas in the teeth.

[mpen24]

So they were knowingly trying to bind a DEMON? Oh God, that's an even bigger reason for killing them now. Merrill at least made precautions and told Hawke to kill her if anything went off; these guys were literally trying to summon a monster then play it off as ignorance. I'm sorry, but I at least thought they were trying to summon a spirit to aid them, but now from what's said here they were just trying to summon a demon and failed to make the proper wards regardless.....yeah, they're dying in every playthrough now. 

I have more liberal views of Blood Magic, but summoning a demon is where you cross the line of no return. Hell, we were killing Wardens partly because they were summoning demons. These Mages are no exception, and the Wardens were at least doing it for a good cause. 

5ubzer0 was wrong; the mages never said they were trying to summon a demon. Solas said they commanded the spirit to kill after they had already bound it which is what caused it to turn into a demon.

[Kitsune]

My Circle mage doesn't let Solas to "teach them a lesson" because they're pathetic stupid humans and she pities them. And she's just the most kind person.

My reaver qunari and dashing dwarven rogue let Solas kill them.

[zeypher]

Do remember spirits of faith, wisdom are rare very rare. Infact bet you solas knew that spirit for  LONG time. They spoke to each other in ancient elvish. Those mages just destroyed a timeless being, i think solas was justified to kill them mages. 

[Gambit458]

You make a valid point, but I am not sure I agree. As someone who has played mages in all three games, it was still a completely novel idea to me when Solas talked about how pride demons turn out to be spirits of wisdom (or was it purpose?) for those who approach them with an uncorrupted mind. Even after reading the lore, I don't fully understand how the spirit/demon classification works.

 

From what I remember the mages attempted to summon a demon for protection, but unfortunately made a mistake and summoned a spirit instead. However, Solas says in a conversation about the fade that if you expect a demon then this is what you will see. Now I don't believe the mages knew that the creature they contained in their summoning circle was a friendly spirit. To me it looked very much like the pride demon we killed in the tutorial and without Solas present I would not have known differently.

It appeared as a pride demon because it got twisted and that's the form pride possesses. After you've slain it, that's when you see what its real form was. Mages should have already known what the dangers were because if you play DA Origins, they make it pretty obvious that that stuff is usually done by blood mages. The summoning of demons and such I mean. Those mages were like the only mages I've seen that seemed to be ignorant about spirits and demons. Vivienne has commented about them, Dorian has commented about them, and any other mage you meet in the previous games knows about them yet this little group didn't? Another thing that got me was who wrote this book that they supposedly got their information from? It's just hard to picture why these mages were incredibly stupid when any other mage knew the precautions. 

 

@Above it was a spirit that had its purpose twisted by the mages which is why it made Solas blow his top