A human who ran up to them with something in her hand, given the tensions were already there its only logical one defends himself. Whoever that woman was, she was foolish.
Oh okay, I wasn't aware that elves were allowed to kill first, ask questions later when trespassing on someone else's land. My mistake.
Sarcasm/
So it's okay to declare war on an entire nation of people because one single human was accidentally killed while some Emerald Knights were trying to capture or kill a defector from their ranks? I take it that the elf who was murdered by humans prior to the Emerald Knights pursuing one of their own in Red Crossing doesn't count.
Too bad that's not how it went down. Humans retaliated and killed all the elves in red crossing after they killed the human while trespassing, then the elves retaliated and decided to keep taking human land, which is how war was declared. Then the exalted march came.
Uh, no, it is not within your rights to trespass on foreign land. They followed him because he was with a human. Who he's banging is none of their business.
Then they ended up killing a human, and that's why tensions escalated.
Tensions escalated when Drakon was causing problems for the Dales years prior, when he conquering their neighbors and forcibly converting people to his particular brand of the Cult of the Maker. His issues with the Dales prevented him from conquering the Free Marches. There's also references to templars being sent into the sovereign territory of the Dales before Red Crossing - armed and armored soldiers who believe they have "dominion over mages by divine right". I can imagine that's going to cause serious issues in a kingdom where mages are free.
Red Crossing is hardly the first time there was an issue between elves and humans.
Oh okay, I wasn't aware that elves were allowed to kill first, ask questions later when trespassing on someone else's land. My mistake.
Sarcasm/
An elf was killed prior to this so yes, indeed your mistake. /no sarcasm.
Tensions escalated when Drakon was causing problems for the Dales years prior, when he conquering their neighbors and forcibly converting people to his particular brand of the Cult of the Maker. His issues with the Dales prevented him from conquering the Free Marches. There's also references to templars being sent into the sovereign territory of the Dales before Red Crossing - armed and armored soldiers who believe they have "dominion over mages by divine right". I can imagine that's going to cause serious issues in a kingdom where mages are free.
Red Crossing is hardly the first time there was an issue between elves and humans.
References by elves, though I honestly don't doubt that happened. But regardless, the tensions that caused the war were strictly in red crossing.
An elf was killed prior to this so yes, indeed your mistake. /no sarcasm.
And they in turn killed humans before then. And? I'll just go and kill Germans right now for something they did years ago. Seems legit.
References by elves, though I honestly don't doubt that happened. But regardless, the tensions that caused the war were strictly in red crossing.
And they in turn killed humans before then. And? I'll just go and kill Germans right now for something they did years ago. Seems legit.
Not really, there were a lot of tension points before red crossing, it was merely the last one which led to war. We argue your vain attempt to blame the elves for the war when both parties are to blame. No one said Elves were saints in this matter.
The conversation's over as far as I'm concerned, so you can continue but the facts are elves trespassed, killed, then they got killed in retaliation for trespassing, then they retaliated, took human lands, then the humans got serious and fought back.
THAT is how it happened, they were the aggressors, and they lost. Period.
Too bad that's not how it went down. Humans retaliated and killed all the elves in red crossing after they killed the human while trespassing, then the elves retaliated and decided to keep taking human land, which is how war was declared. Then the exalted march came.
You would be mistaken, since what I wrote is taken directly from the scroll we find during "The Knight's Tomb". The scroll reads that the group of humans who killed the elf then attacked the Emerald Knights, who defended themselves from this group.
We know that Orlais declared war on the Dales because of this incident, but it's hardly the first time there was an issue between humans and elves (as other sources address, including the scroll in question), and one of the codex entries in the game suggests that expansion may have been the goal of the Orlesian Empire, since the Dales neighbors Ferelden.
The conversation's over as far as I'm concerned, so you can continue but the facts are elves trespassed, killed, then they got killed in retaliation for trespassing, then they retaliated, took human lands, then the humans got serious and fought back.
THAT is how it happened, they were the aggressors, and they lost. Period.
If this pretend helps you sleep at night with the decision you made about elves, then no one is stopping you. I will just laugh at you because if you give the evidence of red crossing to the chantry they apologize to the elves (war table mission) and vice versa the elves apologize to red crossing. Both sides recognize their mistakes. So if Orlesians themselves think they made a mistake, your opinion (which you claimed to be fact, amusingly) is utterly irrelevant.
The conversation's over as far as I'm concerned, so you can continue but the facts are elves trespassed, killed, then they got killed in retaliation for trespassing, then they retaliated, took human lands, then the humans got serious and fought back.
THAT is how it happened, they were the aggressors, and they lost. Period.
Actually, the scroll is written by one of the Emerald Knights from the incident; they weren't killed, they managed to defend themselves from the group of humans who tried to kill them.
The war (which was declared by the Orlesian Empire) is also when the elves started to encroach on Orlesian territory, given that humans and elves were fighting one another; it wasn't part part of this incident, or the goal of the Emerald Knights, as you're suggesting.
Considering no one's buying that bullshit but you two, it seems it's not me that's pretending 
But you can have that last word if it makes you feel better. Doesn't change cold hard facts. Done for now, til later.
Considering no one's buying that bullshit but you two, it seems it's not me that's pretending
Good, an exit worthy of a pretender. The only thing that is cold hard fact is both sides having equal blame and both of them recognize this inside the game. Do you think your opinion matters when Orlesians admit to their mistake? And so do elves, depending on who you give the evidence to.
Considering no one's buying that bullshit but you two, it seems it's not me that's pretending
You realize giving the scroll to Keeper Hawen's clan has the Dalish state that they were wrong to believe humans were solely responsible for starting the war because the scroll reveals that humans and elves are both responsible for the inception of the war? And this is why the Dalish want to give a halla to the town of Red Crossing (one of their most sacred animals), since it would be an olive branch.
Some people have such a talent to turning random threads into another elves thread.
Some people have such a talent to turning random threads into another elves thread.
It was inevitable because Vivienne ignores the elves but Leliana grants opportunity for them. This thread was Leliana versus Vivienne since page 4 or something.
I always get confused when people claim she disapproves of everything they do. I've never have any trouble keeping on her good side even though I'm usually pretty pro-mage/anti-Circle.
Anyway, I wish Vivienne would redecorate if you're on good terms with her. She has excellent style. Not everyone can pull off a hat like that.
All you have to do to make Vivienne like you is basically kiss her ass when it comes to talking with her. She loves it when you find her opinion right or invaluable. Ugh, she's a bit of a hypocrite. Like she asks why my dalish rouge was at the conclave and I say mages deserve freedom and she treats me like"idk wtf the average person thinks about all this and treats me like a typical mage. I was like WELL EXCUSE YOU TOO! Sorry that I think people should be free to do what hey want.
Vivienne is a power hungry control freak. The only reason she gives the mages some freedom is to get rid of their whining.
I actually like her character. What I don't like is the butthurt dialogue options I'm given.
It felt good when I gave her the fake heart and got to tell her she's manipulative and shallow. That "Run along, darling" just didn't carry the same weight as when she redecorates Skyhold.
Orlais didn't declare war. Or rather I don't recall the codex giving any is indication that they did. And beyond that, the Dales went far and beyond self-defense: they had a military campaign that raises a substantial portion of Orlais, with all the rape and pillage that implies. What the Orlesians did was monstrous, but everything we've seen about that period indicates the Dales were doing and would have done exactly what the Orlesians did if they had the good fortune to win the war.So it's okay to declare war on an entire nation of people because one single human was accidentally killed while some Emerald Knights were trying to capture or kill a defector from their ranks? I take it that the elf who was murdered by humans prior to the Emerald Knights pursuing one of their own in Red Crossing doesn't count.
Orlais didn't declare war. Or rather I don't recall the codex giving any is indication that they did. And beyond that, the Dales went far and beyond self-defense: they had a military campaign that raises a substantial portion of Orlais, with all the rape and pillage that implies. What the Orlesians did was monstrous, but everything we've seen about that period indicates the Dales were doing and would have done exactly what the Orlesians did if they had the good fortune to win the war.
According to Ages, "Orlais immediately went to war with the Dales, but was initially surprised by the ferocity of the elven response. A quick Orlesian victory was not going to happen." Admittedly, most sources say that the Chantry responded to Red Crossing, whether it's the codex entry on the Dales, the History of the Elves (from the Bioware site), or WoT. However, I don't recall any source that claims that the Dales declared war on Orlais.
Not to mention that the Emerald Knight's - the military force of the Dales (!!!) - violated Orlais sovereign border to pursue their deserter. I remember how indignant you were about the idea that Orlais sent templars into the Dales and that this was an act of war. The Dales sending a military force somehow isn't? IRL this is the kind of thing that sparks a war.
You realize there's a difference between sending armed and armored soldiers to force people to convert to a religion, and sending soldiers to retrieve or kill one of your own people who you are worried is going to reveal state secrets?
Edit: Though it does sound like you acknowledge this was a war started by both sides despite your tendency to white-wash/excuse what the Dales did, so don't take my post as too much of an attack.
I used to point out that the Dalish had their own historical account about what happened, and that we didn't know which side was correct (at the time) because of the conflicting historical accounts, and since the developers never clarified the matter at the time. That isn't a matter of "whitewashing" anything.
However, after reading the scroll from "The Knight's Tomb" and reading the response from Keeper Hawen's clan, I've repeatedly acknowledged that both sides started the war.
You realize there's a difference between sending armed and armored soldiers to force people to convert to a religion, and sending soldiers to retrieve or kill one of your own people who you are worried is going to reveal state secrets?
Why am I not surprised?
Another great line by Vivienne.
Funny story, my husband, who doesn't play the game at all, was walking through the room during that conversation and when Vivienne greets Fiona with, "Fiona, my dear! I haven't seen you in so long. You look dreadful!" He stopped and watched. When it got to the "dementia" line, he goes, "What a ****** ******! I love her!" And that's why I love him.
You and everybody who likes this posting of yours are awful! SERIOUSLY!
Vivienne is a mean and really hurtful person!
For example: I like Cole because he tries to help! And he tries as best he knows to be a good person.
But Vivienne pretty much rapes Cole emotionally every chance she gets.
And when I read this thread, I get the impression that many people, especially women, like and adore Vivienne BECAUSE she does these things to other people!
To me, Vivienne can be a real ******* sometimes. It is not that b&w - but you know what I mean!
(I mean, I am awful and an ******* at times as well, but that's beside the point!)
You and everybody who likes this posting of yours are awful! SERIOUSLY!
That's not very nice... we are talking about a fictional video game character, ya know. Viv isn't my favorite either, but hey, she's really good at what she does. And she's not the only companion we have that can be cold, demeaning and manipulative. Or who distrusts Cole.
Retour en haut