45 réponses à ce sujet

[zeypher]

Shepard was all kinds of chosen, hell all the npcs in the entire series had an IQ of 50 barely and Shepard had to get everything done. Im sorry but all bioware games nothing happens until you come along. I really think you need to give the witcher series or games made by Obsidian a try to realise how much you are the chosen one in bioware games. 

[wepeel_]

A good example of a person not chosen by fate is Shepard - Sure he becomes the first Human spectre, but no fate or God decided that and he spends the entire 2nd game technically a criminal so that calling is ignored. He's just the one who has the skills and dedication to fight the Reapers to the bitter end. 

 

I don't see many differences between Shepard and the DA protagonists really. Beyond being born at the right time and having Anderson fail his spectre trial (setting the stage), Shepard receives the prothean cipher rather randomly (by pushing a team-mate out of the way), which essentially leads up to all events that follow and places him in a unique position to understand the coming threat. Obviously this doesn't mean the whole thing is all fate and no skill, but that's the case throughout all games of this type. You play a character who ends up in a position where they get the chance to make an impact that few others do, but beyond that the rest is up to the player.

[KaiserShep]

True. But between Justinia howling for help and Coryfish monologing in a big ol' blighted meatsack while carrying an ancient elven vessel of immeasurable power...nobody's spidy senses were tingling?

 

That's like...my one quibble with the flashbacks. The Inquisitor should have looked like she came out of a horror movie, covered in blood from all the mages/templars slaughtered by darkspawn. 

 

[cleric passes by door and eavesdrops]

 

Corypheus: Keep the sacrifice still.

 

Justinia: Someone, help me!

 

Cleric: Oh, I always knew that Justinia was a naughty girl. [continues walking]

 

Soon-to-be-Inquisitor: Oh for the love of...[shoves through door]

 

[explosion]

[Efvie]

I’d disagree with you on Origins. That one is, in my view, even more traditional… there is zero reason for the PC to be the chosen one, and yet they become extremely powerful.

 

DA2 I quite enjoyed specifically because it was, in a way, very small-scale. Hawke tried their best and still failed many things.

 

Inquisitor… true, they’re thrust upon this huge responsibility, but that is an interesting thing in itself—albeit probably much better addressed in fanfic etc. Dread, inadequacy… lots of hard things to grapple with. Or a powermonger who happened to luck out. Many versions.

[Wulfram]

I think Bioware were over-correcting for some of the complaints about Hawke being ineffectual. Plus I guess they wanted the player to be in charge of the Inquisition so they could justify them making the big choices and telling people what to do on the war table and stuff.

[Efvie]

Well we definitely agree on that. I prefer being the 'unchosen one', the person who wins not because fate foretold they would but because they won through sheer determination and force of will; this ambiguity plays a big role in games like Morrowind or Dark Souls where there's a prophecy but people have no idea if you're legit or just the one guy who manages to pull it off regardless.

 

I think that’s a distinction without difference… in the end, you were ‘chosen’ because you had this magick determination and force of will nobody else did.

[KaiserShep]

A good example of a person not chosen by fate is Shepard - Sure he becomes the first Human spectre, but no fate or God decided that and he spends the entire 2nd game technically a criminal so that calling is ignored. He's just the one who has the skills and dedication to fight the Reapers to the bitter end. 

 

Well, there is the beacon, and then somehow happening to be the sole survivor after both the beam run and the Illusive Man confrontation that has to ultimately choose the fate of the entire galaxy.

[TK514]

My problem is less with the Inquisitor and more with the Inquisition.  As an organization, it magically sprung from nothing to Thedas shaping in size and scope apparently overnight.  We go from "We've got the scraps left over from the explosion" to "an army big enough to influence all of Southern Thedas" with no real explanation of where they came from or why they stick around after the crisis is over.  Or why the Inquisition itself, founded by the previous Divine, and in 2/3rds of the possibilities the current one, remains independed of the Chantry.  Or how Josephine, wonderful person that she is, manages to tie most of Thedas into biding political knots that no one seems inclined to break or disregard once things settle down.

 

It all seems just a little too blantant power fantasy for me to really buy in.  If ever a game needed to take place over ten years, this one is it.

[TheJediSaint]

My Inquisitor is not a snowflake.  He's a Champion.  It's good to be Champion.

[Hazegurl]

I personally think the bad future in Hushed Whispers should have happened. I agree that the story needed to be just just as long as DA2 (7-10 years) and the Quizzy should have had some triumphs and fails and one them enough to cause the bad future. It would have made for a much better story than the Quizzy winning by just showing up and breathing.  I've only played mages so far and it really gets me when Cory calls my Quizzy a "mage of meager/lesser talents" it gets to me only because it does hammer home the fact that my Quizzy probably shouldn't be able to take on Cory at all. At least with Hawke I can understand as Cory was weakened already and it was Hawke blood that did it. SO I could headcanon that just waking up and being in close proximity to Hawke is what made it possible to be put down.

 

Showing some sort of origin story of my mage studying or creating some sort of different type of magic (like Dorian created time magic) could have at least set it up that my Mage was innovative, smart, and possessed qualities unlike the other mages at the Circle and perhaps that new magic is what is needed to weaken Cory or something. idk. It would had been nice to have some real hardships.

[frylock23]

I look at it this way - It isn't that you make yourself the special snowflake. You have people at your back who have the power to make you that, and as the game goes on you make yourself that. Cassandra and Leliana are arguably two of the most powerful women left in the Chantry hierarchy. Cullen and Josephine are no slouches in their own right. All are experienced, and they know how to drum up enough interest in the Inquisition to attract experienced operators.

 

Early on, they start taking you along and putting you out there because you do have the mark that lets you close rifts which does make you special. However, they never intend to let you get anywhere near being a real power broker until you start showing actual promise. If you were an idiot in a wheeled chair with the mark, they'd carefully guard you and wheel you out in carefully controlled scenarios if they had to. Thankfully, you turn out to be quite a cut above that and start to prove they can rely on you to carry some weight.

 

After Haven falls, you prove you can serve as an even better symbol, so they agree to make you their figurehead and nominal leader to give the organization some cohesion and make you a tie-breaker vote. And since you've proven to not be a fool, they're comfortable with that, but you still aren't the actual leader ... not yet. You still have a lot of proving to do, and I imagine they still do a lot of guiding behind the scenes until you really do take control at some point during the game. But it's not until you've fully proven yourself in your own right. Until then, you are mainly a figurehead being guided by your advisors.

[5ubzer0]

I really didn't like how they forced this "hero of Andraste" and then leader of the inquisition thing down my throat. It's so hard to make sense of this roleplay wise when you start out as an unknown Dalish elf who may not even be literate. Suddenly, I am supposed to deal with foreign diplomats, forge alliances, and make sophisticated strategic decisions? Unless the protagonist is a genius and an incredibly fast learner I can't think of any way this would not end in disaster. There's a reason why every single of the advisors spent most of their life training for their respective role.

 

I struggled with the Orlesian court scene where they announced the full list of titles and honours of the advisors. Unsurprisingly, when they announce you, they don't have as much to say. Probably because my elf raised halla somewhere in the woods while Cullen was already an established military leader. These people are so out of the protagonist's league!

 

It's even worse when you think about the fact that the only reason our protagonist was kept alive is because he/she picked up a glowy ball and can now close rifts. That part I can tolerate because this is a videa game after all. But why would this team of experts choose us to actually lead the inquisition? I'd understand making us the inquisition's poster-boy/girl and then parading us around for the masses to gawk at.

 

Why would Cullen follow the orders of a complete nobody with no military experience whatsoever? Why would Josi ask my nomadic elf to decide which of the noble houses she wants to align with? In all likelihood any non-human character has never even heard of these people before. As much as I like doing the wartable missions, I wish they had promoted one of the advisors to leader of the inquisition.

 

If I have to be the chosen one, I'd prefer Bioware went back to its "go big or go home" storytelling from Baldur's Gate. At least then I can explain it all away by saying I am the child of a god.

 

 

[Sah291]

Yes and no... on the one hand, it's a video game not a novel or film. So there are always certain unrealistic gameplay elements that are a matter of convention, such big boss fights, or having a special power/ability, etc. Story wise, it's a story about faith and religion, and one that sort of deconstructs the whole "chosen one" archetype I think. Your character is turned into a holy figure right from the start (whether you like it or not), and then you are given reasons throughout the rest of the game to question it, and wonder what it means to be a "chosen one". Were you really chosen? Or was it just random chance? If you were chosen, by whom? What are the gods? Were they just really powerful people/rulers, or something else? 

[errantknight]

I don't have a problem with it, because it's a unique case and how that came to be is a plot point. Besides, it was a damn nice change of pace from Hawke's bleak existence. Also, the explortion of what it means to be the head of the inquisition and the herald is one of the most interesting parts of the game, imo.

[SofaJockey]

It's a story telling choice.

 

Bethesda, for example, have an even higher 'special snowflake' track record:

• Morrowind: Special snowflake - Nerevarine
• Oblivion: Zero to hero (of Kvatch)  - No 'mystical' claim but still foreseen by the Emperor.
• Skyrim: Special snowflake - Dovahkiin

In Dragon Age

 

The mystical blessing of Andraste is later 'addressed'.

Neither the Champion or HOF have any predestined place.

 

Developing from Ram catcher to Dragon smiter is kind of central...

[Oreowen]

Well it was lovely to see how many people agree with me! (because who doesn't like to be validated in their opinion ) but more importantly, many of you have given me some outsider insight onto different ways to look at the inquisitor and find a way to relate to him/her better which I appreciate as well!
But just for the sake of complaining.
Anyone else a little bummed out that you couldn't be a blood mage? I mean it makes sense. Being a religious figure head for a military power based around the andrastian faith kinda makes it hard to justify blood magic. Buuuuut still after 2.5 games of it. It's a little depressing
I just decided that being a Reaver was my second best option and being the anti-hero I prefer to play as.

[Serza]

I see Falon'Din failed to bring this thread to the other side, then...

[Heimdall]

It's a story telling choice.

 

Bethesda, for example, have an even higher 'special snowflake' track record:

• Morrowind: Special snowflake - Nerevarine
• Oblivion: Zero to hero (of Kvatch)  - No 'mystical' claim but still foreseen by the Emperor.
• Skyrim: Special snowflake - Dovahkiin

In Dragon Age

 

The mystical blessing of Andraste is later 'addressed'.

Neither the Champion or HOF have any predestined place.

 

Developing from Ram catcher to Dragon smiter is kind of central...

I don't think the character has to literally be predestined to still fit the trope.  Shepard and the Inquisitor both have people practically lining up to tell them how special and uniquely qualified they are.  It was like visiting my grandmother, I felt quite silly.  The Inquisitor at least has a reason behind it, but even when that was cleared up it was still laid on far too thick for my taste.

[Precursor Meta]

Or it could be a death simulator like Dark Souls.

[vertigomez]

Our normalness happened off-screen, just before we got spat through the Fade. We just didn't get to play it this time.

[Bleachrude]

I see the OP's point and it is a balancing act between "only you, the PC can do anything" and the DA2 hero who many think was useless...I do think the inquisition was too fast, too strong ..I mean, I dont think the inquistion even existed for a year from the beginning of the game to the defeat of Corphy.

 

As an aside, try doing the Darkspawn chronicles on nightmare difficulty level...it's WAY, WAY harder IMO than beating the canon game on nightmare...