173 réponses à ce sujet

[zeypher]

Design wise mass effect team has always been better than the dragon age team, for example face codes, armour designs, casual clothes options, Armour colour choice on how we want it, not what material we have. A party hub that is much easier to transverse. 

[Felya87]

You know, that's the same thing for asking more haircuts, it's all about having a choice.

That wouldn't have killed Bioware to at leas let us choose the colors of our Pyjamas or Ball outfits for example.

 

If bioware could have cut half of those useless open world map and focus more on optional aesthetics content instead (I'm talking here about the graphics team that could have worked on something else than those maps because we didn't need  of them if it were just fillers) like haircuts or wearing different outfit far the bal, we wouldn't have that conversatio.

 

That's why I said choice would have been better. But for me, it was more important give us choice for the Skyhold outfit, that was a more personal thing than the outfit for the ball.(It's still a ball with a political meaning, a mission, and not a party) Of course it would have been cute if there was a chance to choose something less "militaristic" or who give less the impression of "just adapted for the female model". If the female version had the coat longer, for example, would have been already good.

[Panda]

Design wise mass effect team has always been better than the dragon age team, for example face codes, armour designs, casual clothes options, Armour colour choice on how we want it, not what material we have. A party hub that is much easier to transverse. 

 

Idk, CC of Mass Effect wasn't good, all DA's have done better job than it. However I don't get why DAI couldn't have similar casual outfit picker as ME series had.

[Ieldra]

Honestly it looks like all the resources went into male characters, the hairstyles, the cutscene animations, the slouch on the throne, the dance with the grand-duchess (which is why I suspect we're forced to wear pants). We need a bigger budget for female characters tbh.

Definitely. For all improvements that have been made, men and women are still very far from equal in Bioware's games. Not if things like this still use the "male standard", even in cases where it would've been possible to make things more neutral. I can live with the gender-neutral uniform, but the hairstyles are annoying, and I have no words for the cutscene animations - especially the judgment scenes.

[TevinterSupremacist]

I would prefer more dresses for women for offical events or even for hanging out in skyhold. But, OP, what gave you the impression that those were design choices that weren't made by women? They might have been designed by men, but they also might have been designed by women.

 

Also....erm....if...female characters wore dresses for such events...you are aware that there'll be a number of...uhm...people who would be "blah blah, the inquisitor is a leader of military organisation, not a fairy tale princess, women should be in military outfits like men, waaah, waaah"...can't blame bioware for wanting to avoid such moronic complaints.

[Ashara]

I'm surprised the Orlesian court approval doesn't immediately drop to 0 and you get thrown out of the ball for your fashion faux pas. 

 

I 100% agree!    

 

If I recall correctly, I believe one of the partygoers (a nameless NPC) also commented negatively on Cassandra wearing the uniform to the party.  

 

You remember right, Syre, she does. 

 

And then, to make things even worse

Spoiler

the final dance with Cullen looks idiculous in this uniform when it should haven been perfect!       

[Nefla]

I would prefer more dresses for women for offical events or even for hanging out in skyhold. But, OP, what gave you the impression that those were design choices that weren't made by women? They might have been designed by men, but they also might have been designed by women.

 

Also....erm....if...female characters wore dresses for such events...you are aware that there'll be a number of...uhm...people who would be "blah blah, the inquisitor is a leader of military organisation, not a fairy tale princess, women should be in military outfits like men, waaah, waaah"...can't blame bioware for wanting to avoid such moronic complaints.

Instead they get "the inquisitor is the head of a powerful organization, not a nutcracker or bellhop" Vivienne shouldn't have been wearing it, that's for sure. She's already a courtier and has her own clothing and even masks for the occasion. Her dressing like a bellhop with the others was just  if they were going to force us into that abomination, they should have at least given dialogue options to complain about it.

[Tashash]

After all the hype with Morrigan in her gorgeous dress I really thought BW wasn't going to pull the same stunt from Mark of the Assassin.

 

I go so excited when I talked to Vivienne and she mentioned introducing Inquisitor to her dressmaker. I imagined something like a scene that cuts to a 'crafting table' deal where you could pick from maybe three outfits? (Fancy, Military, Ambiguous/armor?) and you could choose what materials to use to change fabric/leather/metal colours? Maybe even different styles based on your race? A ballgown/suit deal for Trevalyn, longer, flowing, almost robelike for Lavellan? And so on and so forth.

 

And I can't agree with 'The Inquisition is a military establishment, they should wear military outfits.' These are not the rank and file, these are their leaders, and most of them are known for things outside of the Inquisition, a uniform does not seem suitable. Plus, the Inquisition is not strictly military - that's why you have Josephine and Lelianna, and not just Cullen.

 

Also, when you actually DO fight you are given the option to change your clothes! So the 'but how would you fight in a ballgown?' point is already pretty broken by the game, and in any case, functional yet pretty formal wear is not exactly impossible. You've seen dancers? Dressed in gorgeous costumes yet flitting about as graceful as can be? They aren't defying physics.

 

And it's not even that the Inquisitor looks horrendous.

 

Nope, the ENTIRE Inquisition gets a 'one-size-fits-all' Nutcracker monstrosity.

 

Lelianna should have has a fit. She's the LEFT HAND OF THE DIVINE. She helped stop the fifth blight! She's a fixture in the Orlesian court, she would never be seen dead in that outfit.

 

Josephine was appointed by the Antivan royal family as ambassador to Orlais - Do you see what she wears day-to-day? She knows the value of appearance.

 

Vivienne, First Enchanter to the royal court, someone who was considered an advisor to Empress Celene! She would have been horrified! She would have set it on fire! And then electrocuted the ashes!

 

Dorian knows he is handsome, he dresses well. Have you heard his banter with Solas? He wouldn't have gotten within touching distance of that outfit.

 

Varric would have taken one look and refused - he's not obvious about it but the man knows how to dress himself, knows what works for him, and that isn't it.

 

Iron Bull looks like he got pulled into a child's game of dress up - It barely fits him! 

 

Solas...Is Solas. I get the feeling even he'd refuse, sure, Dorian makes fun of his choice of clothing, but that's wandering the wilds battling demons and bandits and Venatori. He mentions that he's seen many such affairs (whether this is from the Fade or more personal experience ???) but he'd know dressing the part is key to getting the Inquisition what they want. Plus I get the feeling he'd like to rub it in a bit, that he's the equal of everyone else there, pointy ears notwithstanding. 

 

Cassandra wouldn't have liked it, but she is The Right Hand, and a member of the Nevarran royal family. 

 

Cole, Sera and Cullen might not have cared, except for the garish colours, but no one else would have allowed them to wear it!

 

So, if you're still here after all that, thank you for reading my page-o-rant. I know this isn't the most important thing in the game, but it is something I feel passionate about, and I don't think that just because it's 'girly' or 'only aesthetic/artistic' means it shouldn't matter. 

[Savvie]

I'm guessing here, but I think Bioware got tired of trying to deal with the hairstyles in the frostbite engine, ran out of time and just gave up. That's why we are stuck with very limited and poor options which are shared between both genders. I've stated this before in another thread, but look at Morrigan and Josephine, they obviously found a way to do some decent hairstyles. I think had Bioware had more time to develop the game perhaps they would have put more effort into the hairstyles for the inquisitor. It's clear more thought and effort was put into the design of companions or specific NPCs. Again, another example is how Sera and Solas have rather decent body shapes for elves compared to the rather horrid body shapes that all the other female and male elves have.

[Moirnelithe]

I'm guessing here, but I think Bioware got tired of trying to deal with the hairstyles in the frostbite engine, ran out of time and just gave up. That's why we are stuck with very limited and poor options which are shared between both genders. I've stated this before in another thread, but look at Morrigan and Josephine, they obviously found a way to do some decent hairstyles. I think had Bioware had more time to develop the game perhaps they would have put more effort into the hairstyles for the inquisitor. It's clear more thought and effort was put into the design of companions or specific NPCs. Again, another example is how Sera and Solas have rather decent body shapes for elves compared to the rather horrid body shapes that all the other female and male elves have.

 

It's odd, there does seem to be a focus on the NPC's more than the PC. The PC seems very much an afterthought art-wise. This is supposed to be a RPG, I would think the PC should be more of a focal point. I'm thinking artistic vision is clashing with the fact that people are playing this as a game, it's not a movie.

 

Personally, I keep feeling like my female PC is there only 'because we have to add it'. This is only art/cinematic wise, obviously the story and romances handle this rather well.

[Sartoz]

Definitely. For all improvements that have been made, men and women are still very far from equal in Bioware's games. Not if things like this still use the "male standard", even in cases where it would've been possible to make things more neutral. I can live with the gender-neutral uniform, but the hairstyles are annoying, and I have no words for the cutscene animations - especially the judgment scenes.

Well, Laidlaw the Artistic Director approved the judgement scene. That reveals all we need to know where the priorities went.

[juliet_capulet]

Agreed, nothing is more sexy on woman than uniform ^^

 

I have seen mods of the uniform, not black but white with black details. I liked how it looked. Too bad I'm console player : /

The colors on the suit you wear at the Orlesian ball are hideous.

 

A while ago, someone suggested Orlesian style-armor like Vivienne's armor. Fashionable, soldier-like, and sure to impress the royals.

[Panda]

The colors on the suit you wear at the Orlesian ball are hideous.

 

A while ago, someone suggested Orlesian style-armor like Vivienne's armor. Fashionable, soldier-like, and sure to impress the royals.

 

Red with gold details and blue sash? I don't see any problem with those colors. Seriously there is nothing wrong with the uniform other than it's uniform and some people got impression that they were going to get dress since it's ball.

[Captain Wiseass]

Plenty of women in the real world wear their military dress uniforms to formal events, so I find "no woman would ever wear that" hard to swallow. FemShep didn't wear ball gowns either.

[Elsariel]

Red with gold details and blue sash? I don't see any problem with those colors. Seriously there is nothing wrong with the uniform other than it's uniform and some people got impression that they were going to get dress since it's ball.

Well... They're all primary colors which is a bit....elementary. *shrug* Granted, it could have been worse and I don't think it's hideous but... It's nothing to rave about either. I was expecting a bit more given we were going to an Orlesian ball.

[juliet_capulet]

Red with gold details and blue sash? I don't see any problem with those colors. Seriously there is nothing wrong with the uniform other than it's uniform and some people got impression that they were going to get dress since it's ball.

If you're going that route, even the Orlesian army uniforms looked better.

 

And sorry but I still think the colors are hideous lol.

[Amirit]

I think I figured out why we can not get any pretty dress for the Ball but the uniform. After all they said the dress WAS planned (along with the quest for choosing it). The problem is with animation. Battles and sneaking on the fences during the ball aside, but can you imagine your lovely elven inquisitor strolling across the Great Ball floor in a magnificent dress with that gorilla walk of hers (actually, his) ? They were planning a normal women walk for Fem.characters (as some NPC do) but cut it off for some reason, hence, no dress for women, enjoy your unisex uniform. 

 

As for hair - they all look like they were taken from BF4 directly - modern variations of baldness/shaved heads. Another motion problems? 

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

Plenty of women in the real world wear their military dress uniforms to formal events, so I find "no woman would ever wear that" hard to swallow. FemShep didn't wear ball gowns either.

Femshep got a tight leather dress for a party if you're not aware. Pretty lore-friendly and attractive sort.

[C0uncil0rTev0s]

I think I figured out why we can not get any pretty dress for the Ball but the uniform. After all they said the dress WAS planned (along with the quest for choosing it). The problem is with animation. Battles and sneaking on the fences during the ball aside, but can you imagine your lovely elven inquisitor strolling across the Great Ball floor in a magnificent dress with that gorilla walk of hers (actually, his) ? They were planning a normal women walk for Fem.characters (as some NPC do) but cut it off for some reason, hence, no dress for women, enjoy your unisex uniform. 

 

As for hair - they all look like they were taken from BF4 directly - modern variations of baldness/shaved heads. Another motion problems? 

Hard to animate? Bullshit.

 

I have my lovely Alice: Madness Returns in Origin that HAS ANIMATED DRESS. Aaaand you know Alice was way less funded. And there wasn't any reason to make dress animated apart from it looks awesome and devs weren't lazy.

However we go to the damn Orlesian ball, where it's said the looks define a lot about you. And we're in a uniform that my Lavellan simply hates?

[Amirit]

Hard to animate? Bullshit.

 

I have my lovely Alice: Madness Returns in Origin that HAS ANIMATED DRESS. Aaaand you know Alice was way less funded. And there wasn't any reason to make dress animated apart from it looks awesome and devs weren't lazy.

However we go to the damn Orlesian ball, where it's said the looks define a lot about you. And we're in a uniform that my Lavellan simply hates?

 

You do not have to convince me. Though I meant here general fe.moves in BW games - there is non. Women in cutscenes do move like men. Hence, dress will look off on them. The solution is to create animation for femPC (and it does exist for femNPC!) but for some reason it's never in game.

[tmp7704]

Hard to animate? Bullshit.
 
I have my lovely Alice: Madness Returns in Origin that HAS ANIMATED DRESS. Aaaand you know Alice was way less funded. And there wasn't any reason to make dress animated apart from it looks awesome and devs weren't lazy.

You know what your lovely Alice doesn't have? Character customization, amongst other things. It may surprise you, but animation is much easier and involves less work for one fixed shape, than for a number of them.

Also, just because some game did something doesn't mean it's something not hard to do, or that it must mean people are "lazy" if they didn't include the same thing in their own product. Maybe take it into account before you're so quick to yell "bullshit" again.

[Terrian]

Anyway, we have A BEARD (!) option for female characters.

And just 1 pj option for casual clothes? And just 1 male-styled outfit for The Ball?

 

How does THAT add up?

 

Pseudofeminism (3rd wave feminism) and/or misguided views on social justice.

 

Because she could be too sexy. You know... all the male gaze and such things. Could attract pervs. We can't have that!

 

Attractive female characters? Nah, that would be objectifying. Because women can't be interesting and attractive at the same time. Attractive = object. We must steer clear of that!

 

Too revealing clothing? Only creeps want that. Boob slider, let alone the boob physics? OH THE MISOGYNY!

 

https://twitter.com/...678381950115840<-- This man is a designer at Bioware. That tweet is just one example (that is fairly mild in the grand scale of the more recent Bioware history), but it gives you an idea of the ideologies being pushed in the company... and the effects of which can be clearly seen in the final product. Don't tell me that the 3d artists can't make attractive or sexy women. Don't tell me the sudden lack of nudity and mature themes is only a coincidence (If you decide to not get "romantic" in the game, you'll be spared those 3 seconds of nipples and can get through the entire thing without seeing a nude person or seeing sex or even hearing about sex; heck, even Far Cry 4 contains more male and female nudity and disturbing content than DAI). Only future games can tell how widespread these tendencies can get, so I guess we'll really see what's up only with ME4.

 

I recently saw some popular game critic or Youtuber (can't remember who it was) comparing mid-game DAI to Game of Thrones. Yeah, I can sort of see the inspiration. It's a video gamey PG-13 version of Game of Thrones. Emasculated Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones with the politics, but without mature and/or disturbing content. It's all just too nice and non-offensive. The grand ideas interwoven in the story are basically all about "teaching the kids" (the player) about (in)equality between the races and genders and groups and whatever and it punishes the player ("Sera disapproves") for speaking against any group that is not 100% evil.

 

And apparently, people in the middle ages didn't **** or didn't like to ****. Or at least that's what the DAI world makes you think.

 

Damn, that was quite a tangent xD ... anyways, Witcher: Wild Hunt is coming to the rescue!

[Lukas Trevelyan]

Pseudofeminism (3rd wave feminism) and/or misguided views on social justice.

 

Because she could be too sexy. You know... all the male gaze and such things. Could attract pervs. We can't have that!

 

Attractive female characters? Nah, that would be objectifying. Because women can't be interesting and attractive at the same time. Attractive = object. We must steer clear of that!

 

Too revealing clothing? Only creeps want that. Boob slider, let alone the boob physics? OH THE MISOGYNY!

 

https://twitter.com/...678381950115840<-- This man is a designer at Bioware. That tweet is just one example (that is fairly mild in the grand scale of the more recent Bioware history), but it gives you an idea of the ideologies being pushed in the company... and the effects of which can be clearly seen in the final product. Don't tell me that the 3d artists can't make attractive or sexy women. Don't tell me the sudden lack of nudity and mature themes is only a coincidence (If you decide to not get "romantic" in the game, you'll be spared those 3 seconds of nipples and can get through the entire thing without seeing a nude person or seeing sex or even hearing about sex; heck, even Far Cry 4 contains more male and female nudity and disturbing content than DAI). Only future games can tell how widespread these tendencies can get, so I guess we'll really see what's up only with ME4.

 

I recently saw some popular game critic or Youtuber (can't remember who it was) comparing mid-game DAI to Game of Thrones. Yeah, I can sort of see the inspiration. It's a video gamey PG-13 version of Game of Thrones. Emasculated Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones with the politics, but without mature and/or disturbing content. It's all just too nice and non-offensive. The grand ideas interwoven in the story are basically all about "teaching the kids" (the player) about (in)equality between the races and genders and groups and whatever and it punishes the player ("Sera disapproves") for speaking against any group that is not 100% evil.

 

And apparently, people in the middle ages didn't **** or didn't like to ****. Or at least that's what the DAI world makes you think.

 

Damn, that was quite a tangent xD ... anyways, Witcher: Wild Hunt is coming to the rescue!

 

Wait. So you mean to say there aren't any attractive females in the game? I'm actually pretty sure there aren't any unattractive females, hell each key character in the game is distinctly attractive whether it be Leliana, Cassandra, Josephine, Sera or Vivienne (even Scout Harding). They are attractive (the term is broader than just 'sexy', but they are also physically attractive- they're all perfectly fit)

Trust me I'm not one for the 'social justice' movements that have arisen lately, but while it's clear Bioware is aiming for social justice (which is a good thing), they are attempting to balance it quite well. Vivienne shows cleavage, exclusively wears dresses yet still kicks ass. Whereas Cassandra would never touch a dress and is always dressed in one armor or the other yet she also still kicks ass. You've also got Josephine, who is a non-combatant politician, a noble lady who's polite and well versed in etiquette and living a more finer and privileged life with university education and all that- yet she also kicks ass. There's great representation of women who are sexy, have variant tendencies and are successful at their domains. Yes, they have strayed completely away from objectifying women, which happens when women are presented as oversexualized dolls meant to draw in as many men as possible. Is there a reason that a warrior would decide to put on bikini armor? Or somehow every female character has the perfect genetics for z cup breasts? Or how every female is a master at the art of seduction and are there to get 'banged'? Honestly it's been a trend for quite a while and I've always just wondered.. why? What Bioware has been doing is creating a much needed balance, that allows for more proper presentation of both men and women, both good and bad traits.

Other than that there are flaws in your comment. Such as sex. It's pretty heavily implied that sex does very much exist and is just as loved in Thedas, and it doesn't really matter that you don't see it outside your own life because that's how it should be; sex life and nudity is actually a private part of every person's life that little to no people have access to. The whole bolded paragraph is laughable and is tempting me to simply dismiss you as a troll, that being said discussing it would be too OT and derailing.

[Bethgael]

I don't mind the party uniform. Apart from being "out of step" with the overall aesthetic of the game itself--but that's another topic.

I think that gosh-awful Inquistor pj's outfit looks better on women--but I agree--the "in home" outfits for both DA2 and DA:I are awful. For both sexes.

I think, whenever an outfit or whatever is designed for a game, whoever designed it should be forced to wear it, for practicality's sake if nothing else. Those leg studs would rub, dammit.

If I started on hair--why does Bioware always have so much trouble with hair? Why aren't even the good ones from O and 2 still there? EA Games owns The Sims franchise, port a few in, for pity's sake--I'd be here all week.

[Wulfram]

The uniform is very British army



I'm not all that keen on it because it's kind of anachronistic and out of place with the rest of the game. I don't know why the Inquisition has grabbed some British army dress uniforms, particularly since they don't generally use red as part of Inquisition symbolism.