173 réponses à ce sujet

[Elsariel]

And apparently, people in the middle ages didn't **** or didn't like to ****. Or at least that's what the DAI world makes you think.

I'm pretty sure my quizzie and Cullen were having some "sexy-fun-times" on his desk.

[bowlfreak_not]

I just put the ugly outfit down to practicality...  I mean how much of a pain in the #$% would it be for my inquisitor to be strapped in and out of some fancy ball gown ever time she needs to put on her armor.  And where am I keeping my armor anyway?

[Violetbliss]

I agree that made me cringe just a bit; I would have loved at least more choices!

 

I appreciate the effort of making the clothing and armour that are there, even if I don't find them very attractive myself, and i've just resigned myself to my followers having much better fashion (or at least gear-personality) sense in character. I haven't used Vivienne enough but she should call you out constantly on your bad wardrobe choices. I think it is to the inquisitor what dancing was to Shep; she was hopeless.

[Xhaiden]

Honestly it looks like all the resources went into male characters, the hairstyles, the cutscene animations, the slouch on the throne, the dance with the grand-duchess (which is why I suspect we're forced to wear pants). We need a bigger budget for female characters tbh.

 

No, no they didn't? Seriously people, you can't have it both ways. There can't be wonderful female hairstyles/dresses on NPCs that you want but no resources spent on them. There can't be any artists without any "taste" while you point to Morrigan's outfit. You dance with the duchess because you need to for information. You wear formal military attire because you are a military leader formally representing your organization and have been since you picked up that sword at Skyhold.

 

I mean its not like the hairstyles are fantastic for male characters seeing as they're exactly the same choices and that throne slouch doesn't do any favours for anyone. Even the unified cutscene animations have rough edges on male non-human characters ( they do the same thing to my male elf who likes to hunch over like a Mafia thug ). Plus on the same board here there's a huge thread complaining that the female animations are too girly. So significant resources were spent on gender differing animations.

 

So no, its not a matter of budget gender inequality. Its a matter of a time and technical issues as Bioware has already freely admitted.

[Elsariel]

No, no they didn't? Seriously people, you can't have it both ways. There can't be wonderful female hairstyles/dresses on NPCs that you want but no resources spent on them. There can't be any artists without any "taste" while you point to Morrigan's outfit. You dance with the duchess because you need to for information. You wear formal military attire because you are a military leader formally representing your organization and have been since you picked up that sword at Skyhold.

I mean its not like the hairstyles are fantastic for male characters seeing as they're exactly the same choices and that throne slouch doesn't do any favours for anyone. Even the unified cutscene animations have rough edges on male non-human characters ( they do the same thing to my male elf who likes to hunch over like a Mafia thug ). Plus on the same board here there's a huge thread complaining that the female animations are too girly. So significant resources were spent on gender differing animations.

So no, its not a matter of budget gender inequality. Its a matter of a time and technical issues as Bioware has already freely admitted.

Right on!

[mikeymoonshine]

I'm pretty sure the gender of the designer was not the problem, I think the problem was animation in combat (or something like that) from what I remember. That's not an unavoidable issue though, they still seem able to animate robes so there is no reason why they couldn't re skin those or just have a dress like the one Josaphine wears, that would work ok in combat or something like Vivienne's outfits. I think in the end it was time and resources there is a lot they could have done. 

 

I would have had Vivienne actually introducing you to her seamstress and there being a few options so that you could choose to wear the uniform outfit if you wanted and the option to wear a mask (wearing one would earn some court approval). I also wouldn't have put the same outfit on all the companions and Advisers, i really don't see why they needed to. Why wasn't Vivienne wearing one of her outfit variations? That is what she usually wears at court after all and I just don't see her agreeing to wear the red outfit. Cassandra should have been bullied into wearing a dress (it would have been funny), Josephine could have worn one of those Orlesian dresses and I reckon Cullun and Blackwall would just wear armour.

 

Still there are lots of minor touches I would have added to that quest and the game in general. I also think Celene, Florrianne and Gaspard at least should have had unique masks and hairstyles.

[PETD]

Who says a woman can't be tough and girly at the same time.

 

It would be nice if they give the option to switch Skyhold clothing like in Mass Effect 3, rather than what they call the Multi-purpose PJ. Would like to see female Inquisitor have more clothing option rather than a standard one.

[Moirnelithe]

No, no they didn't? Seriously people, you can't have it both ways. There can't be wonderful female hairstyles/dresses on NPCs that you want but no resources spent on them. There can't be any artists without any "taste" while you point to Morrigan's outfit. You dance with the duchess because you need to for information. You wear formal military attire because you are a military leader formally representing your organization and have been since you picked up that sword at Skyhold.

 

I mean its not like the hairstyles are fantastic for male characters seeing as they're exactly the same choices and that throne slouch doesn't do any favours for anyone. Even the unified cutscene animations have rough edges on male non-human characters ( they do the same thing to my male elf who likes to hunch over like a Mafia thug ). Plus on the same board here there's a huge thread complaining that the female animations are too girly. So significant resources were spent on gender differing animations.

 

So no, its not a matter of budget gender inequality. Its a matter of a time and technical issues as Bioware has already freely admitted.

 

Did you notice that one of the few somewhat acceptable looking medium length hairstyle has sideburns? They didn't have to add those. If they hadn't that hairstyle would have fit both male and female characters. They actually went out of their way to make that hairstyle not suitable for female characters. Why? Did you notice the male baldness patterns and the ridiculous amounts of buzz cuts? Those are hardly gender neutral. Just like they didn't have to add the slouch on the throne, which is once again a very male pose. I'm not asking for overly feminine animations at all, just some that aren't so over the top 'male'. It means wasted resources that could have been spent on neutral styles.

 

They didn't have to make a gorilla walk. They went with over-exaggerated poses and animations that look plain awful on female characters (even more so than male elves, I'm thinking they're specifically made for human males) and then went oh sorry you're going to have to make do with that for the next 3+ games, the budget is spent. Instead of pouring those resources into neutral art they went with a very biased focus. I don't think that's right. And yes, the female run/walk animations went in the exact opposite direction, again way over the top. Instead of spending those resources on neutral animations they went with two over-exaggerated types that both look bad. 

[KirsiJF]

Did you notice that one of the few somewhat acceptable looking medium length hairstyle has sideburns? They didn't have to add those. If they hadn't that hairstyle would have fit both male and female characters. They actually went out of their way to make that hairstyle not suitable for female characters. Why? Did you notice the male baldness patterns and the ridiculous amounts of buzz cuts? Those are hardly gender neutral. Just like they didn't have to add the slouch on the throne, which is once again a very male pose. I'm not asking for overly feminine animations at all, just some that aren't so over the top 'male'. It means wasted resources that could have been spent on neutral styles.

 

They didn't have to make a gorilla walk. They went with over-exaggerated poses and animations that look plain awful on female characters (even more so than male elves, I'm thinking they're specifically made for human males) and then went oh sorry you're going to have to make do with that for the next 3+ games, the budget is spent. Instead of pouring those resources into neutral art they went with a very biased focus. I don't think that's right. And yes, the female run/walk animations went in the exact opposite direction, again way over the top. Instead of spending those resources on neutral animations they went with two over-exaggerated types that both look bad. 

 

I agree whole-heartedly. On every account. Nothing to add, really.

[ForgottenWarrior]

The logic is simple:

Women, dancing male dance in a male outfit doesn't look that unrealistic compare to a male who uses dance style and outfits of female. Bioware is quite resourcefull company but even they had to choose one path. Budget isn't unlimited.

[Sartoz]

Did you notice that one of the few somewhat acceptable looking medium length hairstyle has sideburns? They didn't have to add those. If they hadn't that hairstyle would have fit both male and female characters. They actually went out of their way to make that hairstyle not suitable for female characters. Why? Did you notice the male baldness patterns and the ridiculous amounts of buzz cuts? Those are hardly gender neutral. Just like they didn't have to add the slouch on the throne, which is once again a very male pose. I'm not asking for overly feminine animations at all, just some that aren't so over the top 'male'. It means wasted resources that could have been spent on neutral styles.

 

They didn't have to make a gorilla walk. They went with over-exaggerated poses and animations that look plain awful on female characters (even more so than male elves, I'm thinking they're specifically made for human males) and then went oh sorry you're going to have to make do with that for the next 3+ games, the budget is spent. Instead of pouring those resources into neutral art they went with a very biased focus. I don't think that's right. And yes, the female run/walk animations went in the exact opposite direction, again way over the top. Instead of spending those resources on neutral animations they went with two over-exaggerated types that both look bad. 

I'd bet it all came down to The Budget given to Bioware Division form EA Corporate.

 

To meet said limitation, the studio felt they had to search their outdated library assets to find a "suitable" walk/run animation. So, in essence, you are right. Bioware did not have to make a gorilla walk... since there was one already.

[Tashash]

The logic is simple:

Women, dancing male dance in a male outfit doesn't look that unrealistic compare to a male who uses dance style and outfits of female. Bioware is quite resourcefull company but even they had to choose one path. Budget isn't unlimited.

 

How so? Being a leading partner in a dance, especially the dance we were shown, isn't all that different. About the only part I can think of that would have required anything different in the animation was the 'dip' at the end.

 

And if they could only choose one path, why such an obviously masculine-geared one? Androgyny isn't a myth.

[Sartoz]

The logic is simple:

Women, dancing male dance in a male outfit doesn't look that unrealistic compare to a male who uses dance style and outfits of female. Bioware is quite resourcefull company but even they had to choose one path. Budget isn't unlimited.

True, the budget is limited. It's too bad is was misspent in trivialities...

[Sartoz]

How so? Being a leading partner in a dance, especially the dance we were shown, isn't all that different. About the only part I can think of that would have required anything different in the animation was the 'dip' at the end.

 

And if they could only choose one path, why such an obviously masculine-geared one? Androgyny isn't a myth.

I think the "dip" was put there to impress the gallery. Notice Josephine's reaction to the dance.

 

I wonder. Is there a youtube video of a dance with a female elf Inquisitor? Female elves are normally shorter than human females... so is there a "dip" as well?.

[Dahae]

The Inquisitor isn't at this Palace on a social call. She's there to save the life of the empress and prevent an assassination. If she was in a dress and heels she'd have trouble running around wouldn't she? 

 

The uniform is practical which is more important than looking nice. 

 

Changing the Skyhold outfit on the other hand would be a nice thing to be able to do. 

[KirsiJF]

The logic is simple:

Women, dancing male dance in a male outfit doesn't look that unrealistic compare to a male who uses dance style and outfits of female. Bioware is quite resourcefull company but even they had to choose one path. Budget isn't unlimited.

To me the dance scene looked extremely unrealistic. My character is a small female elf mage. So it was unrealistic in several ways:

 

She is Dalish, she wouldn't even know a dance like that. (And it was never hinted that someone tought her to dance human dances before the ball...) She looked like a child wearing her father's clothing - the small frame stuffed in men's uniform. She also looked very silly dancing "as a male" with a much more robust dance partner than she herself is.

 

The scene made me feel uncomfortable, almost ridicilous and self-conscious. At that point it was apparent the game wasn't meant for my character. It was meant for a male protagonist. I wish I could skip the scene and just talk through it instead of dancing. Same goes for the slouch on the throne. It's painfully clear it's not designed for a female character - let alone tiny female elf.

 

For me as a (feminine) female who plays (feminine) female characters it feels very unnatural when they force exaggerated masculine animations, gestures and clothing on my character. It breaks immersion and disrupts the story.

 

The overly feminine walk/run is easier to tolerate. But I can totally understand how that may bother other players as much as the unsuitable masculine stuff bothers me. So I would strongly prefer BW to make animations etc. more neutral for everyone.

[Tashash]

I think the "dip" was put there to impress the gallery. Notice Josephine's reaction to the dance.

 

I wonder. Is there a youtube video of a dance with a female elf Inquisitor? Female elves are normally shorter than human females... so is there a "dip" as well?.

 

I know there is a dip with a female Lavellan, can't seem to find a vid though. I don't think I was all that much shorter than Florianne was, so it didn't look too game-breakingly awkward.

[Tashash]

The Inquisitor isn't at this Palace on a social call. She's there to save the life of the empress and prevent an assassination. If she was in a dress and heels she'd have trouble running around wouldn't she? 

 

The uniform is practical which is more important than looking nice. 

 

Changing the Skyhold outfit on the other hand would be a nice thing to be able to do. 

 

Actually, for what anyone knows, the Inquisition are guests of Duke Gaspard and would be expected to dress fittingly. This is Orlesian society - looking good is everything. Also, the Duke himself is a military leader and a Chevalier, but his outfit is both practical, armoured and nice.

 

Morrigan can take out a Venatori assassin in her cute heeled boots and pouffy gown but I cant?

 

Practical clothing does not have to be lacking in style *Makes violent gestures toward Vivienne*.

[ThreeF]

I just put the ugly outfit down to practicality...  I mean how much of a pain in the #$% would it be for my inquisitor to be strapped in and out of some fancy ball gown ever time she needs to put on her armor.  And where am I keeping my armor anyway?

 

Under the huge and fluffy skirt, of course!

The whole customization this time around was rather rushed,  I don't think it was because they don't have someone who know how to design costumes and hair.  In their hurry they geared the character toward male (typical), from clothes to 50 shades of bald, to hunchback posture and weird walking that makes the female inquisitor look as if she has a pair between her legs

[Ashara]

Actually, for what anyone knows, the Inquisition are guests of Duke Gaspard and would be expected to dress fittingly. This is Orlesian society - looking good is everything. Also, the Duke himself is a military leader and a Chevalier, but his outfit is both practical, armoured and nice.

 

Morrigan can take out a Venatori assassin in her cute heeled boots and pouffy gown but I cant?

 

Practical clothing does not have to be lacking in style *Makes violent gestures toward Vivienne*.

 

I 100% agree! 

 

I just put the ugly outfit down to practicality...  I mean how much of a pain in the #$% would it be for my inquisitor to be strapped in and out of some fancy ball gown ever time she needs to put on her armor.  And where am I keeping my armor anyway?

 

Under the huge and fluffy skirt, of course!

The whole customization this time around was rather rushed,  I don't think it was because they don't have someone who know how to design costumes and hair.  In their hurry they geared the character toward male (typical), from clothes to 50 shades of bald, to hunchback posture and weird walking that makes the female inquisitor look as if she has a pair between her legs

 

Agreed, again. It is much easier to hide an armour and some weapons under those huge skirts than inside that tight male uniform! So, from a practical point of view, skirts also win 

 

 

And about the budget required to make different things for male and female characters:

* there are already separate meshes of the uniform for male humans/female humans/male elf/ female elf/male dwarf/female dwarf/male qunari and female qunari. They must be different as their body shapes are different. So the difference of doing the meshes more different than they are now is very little.

Also, Bioware didn't had to create new meshes, they could have just reused existing dresses meshes and paint them differently, probably with the same colour pattern than the male uniforms if they wanted, to.

* as there are different meshes, I thinkk there are different textures, too. So again, the work involved in making them to fit the different meshes is very little compared to what they have already done.

The only point where I agree that making different things for male and female characters can involve more work is in animations. And as most of you pouint out, that could be solved by making more neutral animations that could almost fit all genders and races 

[Eggplant Hell Princess]

The inquisitor isn't some woman born in the middle of an orlaisian ball. Despite the human backstory being nobility, all females of all races include either a very aggressive or oppressive history. The inquisitor starts in this story being very familiar with the concept of being a soldier, spy, or rebel. It's easy to believe that the inquisitor does not develop very feminine personality traits such as the attraction to pretty dresses and sitting in a powerful way woman would.

 

Why? Why do you view femininity as inherently weak?

 

This is my beef with 90% of the counter-arguments to the OP. They boil down to the Inquisitor being too good or too competent to be feminine. 

 

I would prefer more dresses for women for offical events or even for hanging out in skyhold. But, OP, what gave you the impression that those were design choices that weren't made by women? They might have been designed by men, but they also might have been designed by women.

 

I can tell you the animations sure as hell weren't done by a woman, because trust me, 90% of women would be aghast by the Inquisitor's sitting stance during judgements (hint: most women aren't comfortable sitting with their legs widespread in front of a room full of men).

[Cell1e]

It's odd, there does seem to be a focus on the NPC's more than the PC. The PC seems very much an afterthought art-wise. This is supposed to be a RPG, I would think the PC should be more of a focal point. I'm thinking artistic vision is clashing with the fact that people are playing this as a game, it's not a movie.

 

Personally, I keep feeling like my female PC is there only 'because we have to add it'. This is only art/cinematic wise, obviously the story and romances handle this rather well.

 

I agree!!!

 

I've noticed that...hairstyles which are unique to all of your companions but not available to the main person in the game, the inquisitor, the armour styles are again unique for most of the companions and they have several versions depending on which armours or colours are used. The wardens armour stays the same look as do one or two others...but it is astonishing that companions and npcs get so many variations and player character gets a range of 3-4 options over the whole game.

 

I also noticed when out exploring none of the companions ever refer or talk to/about my player character, never tease her or give her comments like ...ohh so you and Cullen..or great shot boss.... it feels like they chat to each other and TOTALLY ignore my characters existence. I don't mean to be nit picky but it is a bit weird and lonely. Is that part of the banter bug? It sure feels like an oversight on behalf of the development team.

 

I remember in origins the teasing was great and Alistair asking people for love life advice which you knew referred to my character, it always made me feel warm and fuzzy and a bit blushy!

 

(Oh there was one time at the war table Liliana teased Cullen saying he was glad to see you come into war room) 

 

So NPCs and companions certainly brilliantly put together but main character feels like after thought with lack of hair options, armours and schematics and serious banter deficits.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

 

 

 

 

 

Obviously, female designers are infallible. It's science.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Just for the sake of pointing it out, there were 4 different female fashion designers represented in those examples, and I could have included a dozen more, if I had decided to dedicate more than 3 minutes to the search.

[Moirnelithe]

Just for the sake of pointing it out, there were 4 different female fashion designers represented in those examples.

Did you notice the ps. at the bottom of the first post?