456 réponses à ce sujet

[keesio74]

When FO3 came along, there was a lot of griping from a small core of FO-fans because it wasn't the game they would have wanted. They suffered a black, mental block that made them unable to see that FO3 was a great game. I always thought that was so unreasonable, due to the amount of time that had passed.

 

Yep. You will still hear those people who keep going on about FO1 & 2 and saying FO3 and FONV stink. Actually Wasteland 2 was crowdfunded by those people.

 

I go fairly far back with CRPGs. One of my all time favs is the original Wasteland. I also loved FO1 & 2. And I loved FO3 & NV but I see them as different games than FO1 & 2. Not worse, just different.

[Giantdeathrobot]

i would put divinity: original sin as my top RPG of 2014.. but thats because i prefer that style over what is presented in DA:I.. but that doesnt make DA:I a bad game.

 

I'd love it if more people were capable of reasoning like this, instead of ''I don't like it so its pure garbage''.

[Spankatola]

Fortunally, the world doesn't resolve around the BSN :

 

http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=961552

http://www.neogaf.co...ad.php?t=964027

 

Yeah, so no the complainants aren't limited to the BSN.

Also don't look down on other by threating as low life being.

 

Isn't that the website that was really heavily invested in the false narrative that DAI was selling poorly?

[pasmith31]

As much as it pains me to say I also rate DA:I as GOTY this is more a reflection on the other poor releases this year and not a thumbs up to DA:I however. That said DA:I is the only game this year that I've gotten over 100 hours playtime out of currently at 256 hours and I think the story and cast of characters were awesome and I enjoyed my time with it once I found a PC I could enjoy playing it with. 

 

But I really don't like the direction the game is taking with regards to combat, the dumbed down game play and also the big areas. Plus the lack of care taken with the PC controls really killed the game experience for me, I'd rather it not be on PC than be released with this UI and controls. When I say UI and controls I mean the lack of auto attack/loot, not able to move my PC with a mouse and a controller friendly but mouse unfriendly menu and UI. Also the replay value for me  will be very low as I only enjoyed playing the archer which I've already done. But I may play it again in a year or so when/if any DLC is on sale and if its meaningful story based DLC.

 

Overall I can't help but feel very disappointed with Dragon Age and I won't be buying into the what can only be called pre-release lies and deception if/when DA4 comes along. If this wasn't DA3 I'd be alot more forgiving of the issues above, but it is DA3 and I expect a DA game to play certain way and DA:I didn't play that way.

[Aulis Vaara]

I really wonder if Angry Joe even completed the game. Terrible storytelling, bloody deus ex machina and severe lack of climax. That's just depressing coming from a studio that is praised for its storytelling. And I'm even more surprised so many people are okay with this and find it enjoyable. Odin's beard, the least you want in a story is a satisfying conclusion, but apparently a sequel hook is enough for most people.

[X Equestris]

I really wonder if Angry Joe even completed the game. Terrible storytelling, bloody deus ex machina and severe lack of climax. That's just depressing coming from a studio that is praised for its storytelling. And I'm even more surprised so many people are okay with this and find it enjoyable. Odin's beard, the least you want in a story is a satisfying conclusion, but apparently a sequel hook is enough for most people.

I'm not seeing the supposed deus ex machina. Can you give examples?

[Aulis Vaara]

I'm not seeing the supposed deus ex machina. Can you give examples?

Really? How about the literal goddess whose will lives in the well and whispers into your ear: "Corypheus is Voldemort!" So many interesting ways to have us resolve Corypheus' immortality, but no, he just HAD to be Voldemort.

[LinksOcarina]

Yep. You will still hear those people who keep going on about FO1 & 2 and saying FO3 and FONV stink. Actually Wasteland 2 was crowdfunded by those people.

 

I go fairly far back with CRPGs. One of my all time favs is the original Wasteland. I also loved FO1 & 2. And I loved FO3 & NV but I see them as different games than FO1 & 2. Not worse, just different.

 

the problem is moreso the Niche appeal aspect versus anything else. 

 

Take Wasteland 2 as an example, it has it's audience, already, that's what the kickstarter was all about. The bug issues aside, a lot of the design choices in Wasteland 2 are baffling from a mechanical standpoint however; the CLASSIC system feels too bloated, and many aspects such as Charisma have little bearing on the game, while Intelligence and Coordination are almost necessary because of the high reward yield they give you (much like Intelligence in fallout, which was always a flaw in the SPECIAL system if you ask me.)  Other aspects like Perception should have been passive,but are instead tedious (much like the perception in Dragon Age Inquisition) due to the skill and attribute layout, and the UI is...well...bad.

 

But people love this type of stuff. Is it wrong? No. But it is archaic, just like how you have old school fans playing Second edition of Dungeon's and Dragon's still because it has alignment languages for immersion and role-playing possibilities. The world should exist for both spheres, but sometimes a franchise needs to move on and change so others not dyed into the wool can enjoy it too.  And when a franchise does change, you either embrace it, or not. That's a personal choice, but it's one a lot of people seem to forget about when a game goes through different iterations. 

[X Equestris]

Really? How about the literal goddess whose will lives in the well and whispers into your ear: "Corypheus is Voldemort!" So many interesting ways to have us resolve Corypheus' immortality, but no, he just HAD to be Voldemort.

That's not a deus ex machina. A deus ex machina solves the problem. This simply changes your understanding of the story.

Spoiler

It would be a deus ex machina if said goddess up and killed Cory herself.

[Aulis Vaara]

That's not a deus ex machina. A deus ex machina solves the problem. This simply changes your understanding of the story. It would be a deus ex machina if said goddess up and killed Cory herself.

Corypheus is immortal. This is a problem.

Goddess shows up.

Corypheus' immortality is no longer a problem.

Did the hero solve the problem? No, the goddess did.

Deus ex machina.

Especially egregious because there are several possible solutions planted into the lore to begin with. Like curing the Taint, which we now know is possible. Then there's the Dark Ritual, tranquility (maybe), killing him in the Fade (does the immortality work across the Veil?), just plain old blocking the magic involved in the reincarnation (could Templars learn this? would be useful for future Blights), and possibly other solutions with strong connections to the lore. On the other hand, horcruxes are not part of the lore.

[Violetbliss]

It's possibly my GOTY, but not a strong strong one if that makes sense. There's enough flaws to make it possible to have had a contender, but for me the only contender was Divinity Original sin, and it MIGHT be the better game. However, i'm a big sucker for interaction between companions and DAI simply did that best.

[X Equestris]

Corypheus is immortal. This is a problem.Goddess shows up.Corypheus' immortality is no longer a problem.Did the hero solve the problem? No, the goddess did.Deus ex machina.Especially egregious because there are several possible solutions planted into the lore to begin with. Like curing the Taint, which we now know is possible. Then there's the Dark Ritual, tranquility (maybe), killing him in the Fade (does the immortality work across the Veil?), just plain old blocking the magic involved in the reincarnation (could Templars learn this? would be useful for future Blights), and possibly other solutions with strong connections to the lore. On the other hand, horcruxes are not part of the lore.

There are other qualifications, too, you know. The problem has to be portrayed as hopeless. This was not the case in this instance.

You say horcruxes aren't part of the lore? I say look at Flemeth. Investing part of one's being in an object is nothing new in the lore.

All of this ignores the fact that deus ex machinas aren't automatically bad. It's all in the execution.

[NedPepper]

I don't care if your the president. If your complaining about a positive review about this game, your not a hardcore fan. What do you think hardcore fanbase means?

Look.

You have the hardcore fans arguing about why the love the game for ten pages.

And you have the people who aren't hardcore fans arguing why it sucks for 10 pages.

 

Do you mean hardcore gamers?

Hardcore gamers argue about everything, and its hardly something anyone should care to listen to. Each has their idea of what a game should be, and all they do is complain about how every game missed that ideal. They just log into official forums to complain about how every game did it wrong, while continueing to play the game in the meantime.

"Oh this game sucks. I know. I played it for 1000 hours"

 

I know a guy a mile away who is playing dragon age right now. He has played several times more then I have, and if asked he will put the game down and tell you how much it sucks. Its not a surprise the guy isn't a terribly fun person to be around.

I think it's more of a case, especially with Dragon Age, where the hardcore fanbase, if you want to keep using that phrase, loves the series more than your average gamer, even if they are a "hardcore" gamer.  These are the people who buy the merch, read the books and the comics, and follow every piece of information related to Dragon Age.The disappointment is more...I guess personal is the word...for them.  The reason they keep playing it is because they WANT to like it.  It's hard to not like an entry into a series that you love.  And they want it to be better next go round.  So they let their voice be heard.

See, the difference is that casual or hardcore, whatever phrase you want to use, gamer who is NOT a fan of Dragon Age can play the game for a few hours and they either like it or they don't.  They don't log on to here to share their disappointment.  Why?  Because they're not invested.  They just go trade the game in and play some more Grand Theft Auto or Destiny or Madden or the twenty other games they've recently bought.  

That's the difference.

I also don't think anyone here begrudges anyone else liking the game.  They like to argue about it, but ultimately who cares? It's all subjective.  I argued about how much I liked Dragon Age 2 and people called me an idiot.  But this is the BSN.  You don't take it personal.

[Aulis Vaara]

There are other qualifications, too, you know. The problem has to be portrayed as hopeless. This was not the case in this instance.

Corypheus is immortal. Do we have a way to kill him? Nope. Where exactly is this "hope" you speak of?

You say horcruxes aren't part of the lore? I say look at Flemeth. Investing part of one's being in an object is nothing new in the lore.

Is that even the same thing? We don't know, because we don't understand ANYTHING about the magic involved here. There are no rules. And if there are no rules, equivalency cannot be established. At best we can say: these two things appear similar, they might be connected.

If you don't know the rules of a magic system, it can't be used to satisfyingly resolve a problem. That's Sanderson's first law of magic, and can be observed in action in superhero stories. If superheroes can just pull whatever power they need out of their ass, they are simply not interesting.

All of this ignores the fact that deus ex machinas aren't automatically bad. It's all in the execution.

You seriously think taking player agency away in a medium that is all about player agency can be a good thing?

In any case, I'm out.

Glad for one thing though: now I can finally leave EA behind forever.

[I present Chuck Bass]

ive never liked the guy, and always thought his theatrics and over-the-top flamboyance was pathetic and embarrassing. I also remember him as a phony wannabe "crusader" for the "people" and wanting to "keep it realz" from corporate corruption, yet look at him now? Its obvious he has been bought out, not only based on his "review" of DAI. As for those who claim the whining is only on BSN, say what? There are many -many- people sharing the same opinions across the net, and even irl. Everyone i know says the same things. Isnt it telling that a new game that -just- came out is already on a "holiday" sale of 33% off? I understand its supposed to be a "holiday" sale, but that is a lot of -sale- shaved off of a game that just came out.

They did that to compete with almost all the other games that reduced their prices this holiday season...? (Including games that came out recently). This by no means can be used as a piece of evidence that the game sucked, but rather it's called a marketing strategy.

[NedPepper]

I am not a "new" player.  Your statement implies that anyone who's played a previous game doesn't like this one.  However, this is not true.  I liked Origins over DA2, but now (thankfully) I have something else to keep me busy.  I'm not sure if I could honestly make it through another complete play through of Origins.
 

 

I never said Dragon Age fans didn't like DA: I.  I said it was decidedly mixed compared to the praise it's getting outside of the fanbase.

[X Equestris]

Corypheus is immortal. Do we have a way to kill him? Nope. Where exactly is this "hope" you speak of?Is that even the same thing? We don't know, because we don't understand ANYTHING about the magic involved here. There are no rules. And if there are no rules, equivalency cannot be established. At best we can say: these two things appear similar, they might be connected.If you don't know the rules of a magic system, it can't be used to satisfyingly resolve a problem. That's Sanderson's first law of magic, and can be observed in action in superhero stories. If superheroes can just pull whatever power they need out of their ass, they are simply not interesting.You seriously think taking player agency away in a medium that is all about player agency can be a good thing?In any case, I'm out.Glad for one thing though: now I can finally leave EA behind forever.

Spoiler

Corypheus APPEARS to be immortal. We don't, at that point, know if he is. The info from the Well doesn't even solve the problem. Until you kill the dragon, Cory is still functionally immortal. As I said earlier, this situation simply changes our understanding of what's happening.

No one is pulling anything out of anywhere, as the possibility of a being putting part of themselves into something else was established with Flemeth in DA2. We don't need to know whether they are exactly the same, though they certainly seem to work on similar principles.

As for "taking away player agency", I didn't see anyone complain about Flemeth saving our PC and Alistair in Origins, and that fit every single qualification for deus ex machina. If you kept your player agency, the Warden would've died on top of the Tower of Ishal.

[Giantdeathrobot]

I never said Dragon Age fans didn't like DA: I.  I said it was decidedly mixed compared to the praise it's getting outside of the fanbase.

 

That's often the case. Skyrim, I recall, was getting pretty blasted by some fans on the forums after release (mostly because of the simplified RPG elements and bland story). Didn't stop it from being the best selling WRPG of all times and smashing review scores. A franchise's hardcore fanbase has more of an idea of what they want out of that franchise, and some are thus unlikely to appreciate deviations from that ideal model.

 

EDIT: @ X Equestris: hell, without the savior Duncan the Warden doesn't even survive their Origin.

[AlanC9]

I'm not seeing the supposed deus ex machina. Can you give examples?

Isn't this the non-spoiler board? I guess it's OK behind spoiler tags, but we probably shouldn't do an extensive discussion of such matters here.

[LinksOcarina]

Am I the only one who thought the games that came out this year were also halfway decent?

 

We had a good mix of genres represented, a ton of good content from a lot of publishers, and for once, the independent scene hit a mark of quality in good Titles like Transistor, Child of Light, Costume Quest 2, Among the Sleep, Secret Poncho's, Valiant Hearts, and Shovel Knight. 

 

I don't know, I think people bash some forms of gaming too much, or tend to neglect whole companies that made a splash. Nintendo for one really owned the year thanks to Mario Kart 8 and Super Smash Bros. I feel like the problem is tunnel vision, people only see certain games in the spectrum but neglect everything around them, indie games included.

[X Equestris]

Isn't this the non-spoiler board? I guess it's OK behind spoiler tags, but we probably shouldn't do an extensive discussion of such matters here.

People have already discussed some spoilery things earlier in this thread. This thread might be better off in the spoiler section, though.

[Greetsme]

The metacritc user scores are basically reflected here on these forums.  There is as many slagging the game as there are praising the game.

[X Equestris]

The metacritc user scores are basically reflected here on these forums.  There is as many slagging the game as there are praising the game.

Yes, because user scores that include zeroes handed out on release day are perfectly valid. The people I see here screaming about how bad DAI is are usually the same small handful of folks. Nevermind that as a link earlier in the thread showed, DAI has something like 85 Game of the Year awards, including something like 12 reader's choice awards, far ahead of its closest competitor, Shadow Of Mordor.

[Elhanan]

The metacritc user scores are basically reflected here on these forums.  There is as many slagging the game as there are praising the game.

Possibly, but here one may have to be a registered owner to post on some forums. At meta-critic, anyone can vote and review whether or not they have actually played the game.