154 réponses à ce sujet

[Savvie]

I like the romance aspect of Bioware's games, but I will admit it really bothers me how obsessive some Bioware fans get over romance and sexual preference. When they start harassing and spamming Bioware developers with endless questions and complaints on twitter or tumblr, I think it's very rude and uncalled for. It's acts of display like this that make me wish Bioware didn't even really reveal much information about the romances. Also, I agree the open world attempt did mess up the dynamics of the main story and companions quite a bit.

[Kinsz]

Maybe. There are trade-offs, of course. I would hate to lose out on being able to play as different races. And I wouldn't want BioWare to go all Ubisoft on us and start making the same game in different settings.

 

But there is something to having the same cast of characters share a long history together. Up until the last few minutes I think ME3 capitalized on that beautifully.

Well there is always a risk but ME proved that if done well its a wonderful experience.

[Vita Brevis]

Would you, OP, care for GoT if if was only a story and characters were just some carboard dummies, dying one after another? Probably no. Story tells us about people, without them it's just some dry facts. It's not a history book, it's suppose to make people feel something, and the stronger the feelings - the better. So yes, there are very few topics as passionate as topics about the LI's, but that's what you can discuss, like, forever more or less. There are tons of threads about lore but once you've discussed it, what's there more to say? But something involving people and their opinions you can discuss forever till you get banned (i.e. mages vs templars numerous topics).

You can deny it or think you're above it but people are more interested in something that involves human interactions and emotions. 

[Korva]

we could have had Hawke as the protagonist for the Inquisition it would have changed absolutely nothing choice wise. the extra time spent on other races however would have been spent on fleshing out the story more.

 

Eh, as someone who didn't see any appeal in DA2 after trying its demo (aside from Aveline), and still doesn't after everything that's been written about it, I definitely wouldn't want to have that character forced on me. Especially if they'd kept the old cast instead of these new companions. That said, I agree on the late addition of non-human Inquisitors. The game definitely still has that "meant for a human" vibe, with dwarves and qunari having no connection to what is going on and only some late-game and "romance-gated" stuff for elves.

[frylock23]

I mainly just wish that people would let the writers write the characters and trust them. This is BioWare. They will do what they can to be inclusive, but they also have to consider the overall story and plot and work with the resources they have available. It does mean that none of us are going to get our dream game. It means that sometimes you will hit the lottery and get what you will consider perfection, and sometimes, it means you will get less than perfect or even feel completely ignored.

 

They aren't doing any of it on purpose anymore than any other author, game developer or movie maker is doing it on purpose when they don't make the perfect thing for you.

 

It just means you need to be patient.

[Hazegurl]

I would hardly blame romances for the plot as a particular character is interwoven with the main story. BW proved that they can do plot and romance at the same time. Just not with every single companion in the game. Which is understandable but it would have been nice if Dorian had more to do with the Venatori, or the Qun had invaded, or Blackwall be an actual GW experiencing what was happening in the game.  But that didn't happen. The main plot is just very straight forward "hero saves the day by being an awesome hero" story. The romances had nothing to do with that, if they had removed all romances you still would have had the same story but without romances.

[Kinsz]

Eh, as someone who didn't see any appeal in DA2 after trying its demo (aside from Aveline), and still doesn't after everything that's been written about it, I definitely wouldn't want to have that character forced on me. Especially if they'd kept the old cast instead of these new companions. That said, I agree on the late addition of non-human Inquisitors. The game definitely still has that "meant for a human" vibe, with dwarves and qunari having no connection to what is going on and only some late-game and "romance-gated" stuff for elves.

I think that it's a big mistake for you to not have tried DA 2 and judging it for yourself , i was kinda put off by the horrible "fan" reviews as well but in the end i always like to be the one to decide whether a game is worth my time or not so i got it regardless and enjoyed it a lot despite its flaws.

 

Anyways im not suggesting that it should have been Hawke , i just used him as an example, i agree with you in regards to the companions though , i actually believe that the DAI companions were the best in the series, so that was a good call on Bioware's part i just meant that they should let us have the same protagonist for a bit ( the Inquisitor atm needs some work , IMO at least , his/her story was half assed ) it would save them time on the whole background stuff , time they could spend on other aspects of the game.

[Teshayel]

I agree with many posters here that the romances are disproportionately represented on this forum. But that's because they are a lot of fun Bioware knows how to flesh out characters. Funnily enough, with the Dragon Age series, I always find myself prioritizing the romance and companion quests. That did not use to be the norm, however. KotoR had an awesome story, and I would have enjoyed playing through the game with or without the romance arcs. I am not too sure whether I'd feel the same about the DA series.  

 

As for DA:I in particular, the story came to a rather abrupt halt for me - I've seen people take 130 or more for a playthrough, but I had to force myself to invest more than 50 hrs. I ended up finishing the game at level 18, with ~60 hrs on board.

[Hazegurl]

Oh come on. It's more than that.

 

 

I know you don't like the Herald/faith/Chantry angle, but these are important...and make it more than a generic Hero plot.

You're right I don't like that but that's not my reason for considering it generic.  I just think that the PC saves the world without any real hardships or roadblocks.  The Herald thing doesn't even add to the story except as an excuse to make the hero the leader of an organization. Faith is only discussed as "I believe in the Maker and I must believe that he sent you to us. Do you believe in the Maker?"

[Korva]

Eh, I felt the romance actually cheapened Bastila's character. Be her steadfast friend and encourage her to find her own strength to resist the dark side and redeem herself -- or make her a simpering child dependant on her oh-so-powerful man. That is messed-up enough in a normal person, nevermind a powerful Force Sensitive. It was neither the first nor the only time that utterly grating dynamic of "man protecting supposedly strong but actually weak woman" was played out in Bioware's hetero relationships ... even when the women was the player character. I remember seething with rage at the writers when Carth not only presumed that me simply being friendly to him (and NEVER doing anything remotely flirtatious) meant I wanted anything to do with him sexually, but also that he had to "protect" me.

 

Thankfully, that stupid trope is one that they don't seem to write much anymore, from what I've seen, and so is the presumption that being friendly to an opposite-sex NPC must obviously mean you want to f*ck them.

 

 

You're right I don't like that but that's not my reason for considering it generic.  I just think that the PC saves the world without any real hardships or roadblocks.  The Herald thing doesn't even add to the story except as an excuse to make the hero the leader of an organization.

 

Yeah, it's a bit too much smooth sailing for me, too. Part of why In Your Heart Shall Burn is one of my favourite story arcs ever in a computer game is how it swings from triumph (sealing the Breach) to shock (the attack on the eve of that triumph) to devastation and loss (the fall of Haven) and then to hope (the song) and defiance and rebuilding (the journey to Skyhold). After that, it's just too ... easy. The climax, the top of the mountain in terms of danger and hardship, shouldn't come in the first third of a story.
 

And the Herald title gets dropped in favor of Inquisitor very quickly, too. I mean, it's good that the game doesn't want to force the faith issue overmuch, but at the same time it should be and remain important in-character and in-world.

[Killdren88]

There is a reason I hear people who don't play Bioware games call them Waifu simulators....

[KealaFerret]

Cheers for the heads-up. My reluctance to go into these character threads really falls mostly on myself -- it just feels rude to "derail" from the theme at hand, if you will.

I think most people won't mind the derailing so long as it's discussion and not an all out hate fest. The problem with character threads is that a lot of stuff gets discussed but it falls way back in the threads. As more people come along, they bring new perspectives, and honestly, sometimes people just can't think on a more meaningful deeper discussion topic, but still enjoy talking about a character. It's great to bring a topic into a thread, people would have a blast discussing stuff, or maybe get an aspect to it they didn't have before.

In the spoilers section, you can keep discussions a little more focused, however.

Personally, for me, it's less romances overshadow the story, but they're important to me because stuff like that is reminders of what you fight for. Those human connections, friends, family, lovers, these things make the world saving. It's about that connection with a person, something to increase engagement, to get people more invested. People like to talk about that because it gives them common ground, because it's good fodder for fan art, or fan stories, ect. :: shrug ::

[Zombie_Alexis]

I don't think the romances overshadow the game, I just think the romances get discussed more in the forums. There's nothing wrong with that. While I enjoy the romances, the overall lore and story is what hooks me into the DA games.

[Kage]

Its not that companions overshadowed the main story, its just that most companions are independent to the main story. I would like more characters like Cassandra and Solas, and less characters like Dorian, Iron Bull, Sera, Cole, Varric, Vivienne and Blackwall.

 

I like them, but they just have their independent content, and do not affect the main story at all.

 

That is why it seems that the main story is super short.

[Kinsz]

Its not that companions overshadowed the main story, its just that most companions are independent to the main story. I would like more characters like Cassandra and Solas, and less characters like Dorian, Iron Bull, Sera, Cole, Varric, Vivienne and Blackwall.

 

I like them, but they just have their independent content, and do not affect the main story at all.

 

That is why it seems that the main story is super short.

Well thing is , Bioware cannot do that because ..well if they do the shitstorm will ensue , every day there will be a new thread about how much someone hates X character but arent given the option to kick them out , which is why i believe some of them are made optional. I agree with you however i believe it would be better overall if every character had a meaningful tie to the story ala Cassandra and Solas.

[zestalyn]

Cheers for the heads-up. My reluctance to go into these character threads really falls mostly on myself -- it just feels rude to "derail" from the theme at hand, if you will.

 

Don't feel reluctant about that! Constant derailing is the natural flow of character threads to be honest, and it works out, hah. I would think that's the reason they have accumulated so many pages and views. There is so much to say about the characters that you cannot expect the entire thread to flow seamlessly from topic to topic from the incessant fanboying/girling to the intellectual analyses. Otherwise, no one would get anything off their chests.
 

Yeah, it's a bit too much smooth sailing for me, too. Part of why In Your Heart Shall Burn is one of my favourite story arcs ever in a computer game is how it swings from triumph (sealing the Breach) to shock (the attack on the eve of that triumph) to devastation and loss (the fall of Haven) and then to hope (the song) and defiance and rebuilding (the journey to Skyhold). After that, it's just too ... easy. The climax, the top of the mountain in terms of danger and hardship, shouldn't come in the first third of a story.
 

And the Herald title gets dropped in favor of Inquisitor very quickly, too. I mean, it's good that the game doesn't want to force the faith issue overmuch, but at the same time it should be and remain important in-character and in-world.

 

Agreed, although I actually wish they delved into the issue of faith more. In DA:I's nomination video for the gameawards, Cass says Inquisition is about the 'examination of faith'. If she hadn't mentioned that, I probably wouldn't have realized that was a core theme of the story, and I think it would've been more interesting if it were made more present. It would/ve been much more realistic based on how the Herald came to power.

 

There weren't enough instances where we were forced to come to terms with how the masses actually perceived the Inquisition and its Herald, regardless of your own spiritual beliefs. Seeing its followers bow at the Inquisitor's feet during 'Dawn will come' was just nudging the tip of the iceberg. Really, I welcome anything that would've made the journey more thought-provoking and conflicting.

[Monica21]

I think that a lot of the actual discussion and lore-related topics are getting lost in the shuffle in romance threads.

 

Spoiler

Solas is a great character and from what I've read, has a very interesting romance arc, but that's a small part of his story. His story is huge and far-reaching and creates more questions than it answers, but bringing it up outside the Solas thread tends to lead to threads that get buried in the rest of the forum.

 

And this is why I want a Lore forum. It would prevent that specific character discussion from getting lost.

[Korva]

@Kinsz: It's a tightrope walk, yes. As good as it is when a character ties meaningfully into the story, too many obligatory characters with very different personalities just get messy and increase the risk of being a nuisance. Especially when combined with the tendency to make the protagonist (sometimes more than a little) stupid. Here's your dwarf NPC, bringing dwarf perspectives and knowledge that no one else has! ... what do you mean, you play as a dwarf? Sorry, you can't know what he knows, that's his job so go ask what "the Stone" is like a good little generic hero. And of course you will never hear the Stone, either, unlike him.

[Korva]

Agreed, although I actually wish they delved into the issue of faith more. In DA:I's nomination video for the gameawards, Cass says Inquisition is about the 'examination of faith'. If she hadn't mentioned that, I probably wouldn't have realized that was a core theme of the story, and I think it would've been more interesting if it were made more present. It would/ve been much more realistic based on how the Herald came to power.

 

There weren't enough instances where we were forced to come to terms with how the masses actually perceived the Inquisition and its Herald, regardless of your own spiritual beliefs. Seeing its followers bow at the Inquisitor's feet during 'Dawn will come' was just nudging the tip of the iceberg. Really, I welcome anything that would've made the journey more thought-provoking and conflicting.

 

Full agreement. I listened to a podcast today in which Patrick Weekes (the writer for Cole, Solas and Iron Bull) said faith, its examination and its different manifestations in people is a core element but they didn't want to force players to engage with it. That was a mistake, IMO, because it made the theme and the whole story weaker than it otherwise could have been. I'd have loved to see it more fleshed-out, and I say that as a RL atheist. Writers should believe in their themes as much as they believe in their characters -- and as long as they're up-front about a theme and people who don't like it can thus avoid it and the game, nobody has any real business complaining about it.

[Kinsz]

@Kinsz: It's a tightrope walk, yes. As good as it is when a character ties meaningfully into the story, too many obligatory characters with very different personalities just get messy and increase the risk of being a nuisance. Especially when combined with the tendency to make the protagonist (sometimes more than a little) stupid. Here's your dwarf NPC, bringing dwarf perspectives and knowledge that no one else has! ... what do you mean, you play as a dwarf? Sorry, you can't know what he knows, that's his job so go ask what "the Stone" is like a good little generic hero. And of course you will never hear the Stone, either, unlike him.

O yea I dont disagree, for the sake of convenience this is the best formula, i however wish that we could get the best of both world, give them a more meaningful role to play ( other than being good DPS or tank ) but still allow the player to kick them if he likes but by doing so he/she would miss a little something , nothing so major that you cant complete the game however.

 

A good example of that is Suikoden 2 , you have to the option of recruiting 100 characters , its an option, if you dont do so youll have someone die in the end are forced to fight your best friend in the final fight and kill him.