154 réponses à ce sujet

[zestalyn]

Full agreement. I listened to a podcast today in which Patrick Weekes (the writer for Cole, Solas and Iron Bull) said faith, its examination and its different manifestations in people is a core element but they didn't want to force players to engage with it. That was a mistake, IMO, because it made the theme and the whole story weaker than it otherwise could have been. I'd have loved to see it more fleshed-out, and I say that as a RL atheist. Writers should believe in their themes as much as they believe in their characters -- and as long as they're up-front about a theme and people who don't like it can thus avoid it and the game, nobody has any real business complaining about it.

Seconded! For a game that strives for immersion, I don't understand why they would shirk from solidifying its core themes, just because it plays with the touchy subject of 'faith'. That's just how the real world is. Like Thedas, we are surrounded by millions of people who are devout. I'm thoroughly agnostic myself, but I understand that if you're someone who comes to power, you must come to terms with the many who are faithful. Especially if it's in the fashion of the Inquisitor lol. If they're willing to 'force' people to deal with Dorian's struggle with his sexuality, I'm surprised they're remotely self-conscious about reinforcing its themes of faith.

[Pillowy_Object]

well the most important, interesting, and unique part of bioware games are the characters, especially the companion characters. and the deepest, most meaningful relationship you can have with a bioware character is to pursue the romance plot line with them. So, it kinda makes sense that romances get so much attention here, because ultimately thats what most people get really attached to in these games.

[Hazegurl]

Full agreement. I listened to a podcast today in which Patrick Weekes (the writer for Cole, Solas and Iron Bull) said faith, its examination and its different manifestations in people is a core element but they didn't want to force players to engage with it. That was a mistake, IMO, because it made the theme and the whole story weaker than it otherwise could have been. I'd have loved to see it more fleshed-out, and I say that as a RL atheist. Writers should believe in their themes as much as they believe in their characters -- and as long as they're up-front about a theme and people who don't like it can thus avoid it and the game, nobody has any real business complaining about it.

I agree with this.  I like playing Atheist characters so I wouldn't want my PC pigeonholed into being Andrastian. However, that doesn't mean I would have shied away from the "faith" theme as you don't have to believe in a Maker or Andraste to have faith in something. I actually wanted a bit more reaction to my Quizzy being a nonbeliever. Instead I get "You were sent here for a reason."   It would have been nice to dig a bit deeper into Andraste, Elven Gods, et al. than what was given in game.

[legbamel]

DA:I made me feel like I actually got to know most of my companions and advisors without having to romance them wit to know the "real" them. That's definitely something that was missing in the first two titles, particularly with Zevran, Alistair, and IIsabella but to a lesser degree with the others as well.

Had Leliana not been such an accomplished ninja-mancer I'd never have known how creepily obsessive she is and her personal story would not have resonated with me half as much. I haven't romanced Solas yet so I don't know how much is gated behind the female Dalish requirement but thus far Cullen is precisely as bashful and determined by turns as you'd expect him to be from every interaction you've had with him over all three games. It's great extra dialogue but the lyrium and family content - the real meat of his character development - are part of the relationship he has with any Inquisitor.

[errantknight]

Meanwhile I hate this. Makes me unable to romance the love interests involved since it feels like I'm breaking them up. The only exception is Josephine and Rainier both because nothing happens between them and Rainier is...well, Rainier. 

This is like saying you shouldn't date anyone at all, ever, because they'll find someone else if you don't date them.

[FragCzar]

OP is correct.

[Xx Serissia xX]

Regardless of other aspects of the game that I might like or dislike Bioware's romances have always been solid.  I always look forward to them.  

[Cheech 2.0]

@ Vita Brevis lol no I'm not above it at all. The GOT reference is interesting. I watch tv passively, but gaming is aggresive? ( poor analogy sorry ) I interact with that story I can shape it. Tv is just watching things unfold. I guess I do roleplay a little, and I'm more save the world first, go out on dates second kind of guy lol. I don't agree with needing love interests/emotional weight to make something worth fighting for. The saving of the world for the greater good would always be my greatest motivation. Besides if the world went to **** it wouldn't matter who I shared my bed with, priorites lol

[macready1988]

Overshadowing? Maybe on the forums and tumblr. In game? Its roughly half an hour ish per character of content, and shares a lot of content with the frienship cconversations anyway. In the grand scheme of a 100+ hour game, even a company reknowned for its commitment to romantic paths like bioware, thats basically light side dressing.

So no, outside of fangirl/boy hysteria, shippers and tumblr nutjobs, id say its safely in the "minor feature" category.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Full agreement. I listened to a podcast today in which Patrick Weekes (the writer for Cole, Solas and Iron Bull) said faith, its examination and its different manifestations in people is a core element but they didn't want to force players to engage with it. That was a mistake, IMO, because it made the theme and the whole story weaker than it otherwise could have been. I'd have loved to see it more fleshed-out, and I say that as a RL atheist. Writers should believe in their themes as much as they believe in their characters -- and as long as they're up-front about a theme and people who don't like it can thus avoid it and the game, nobody has any real business complaining about it.

 

Name or link please?

[Nightdragon8]

The only reason Romances seemed to overshadow the story this time around was that there really wasn't much of a story to begin with, I mean outside of the character related world events there really wasn't much to be seen.

 

Events the stuck to me after beating the game,

 

Mountain blew up, which killed lot of people, and Red Lyrium.

 

Red Lyrium, Red lYrium Red lyriuM. Both Mages and Templars are a bunch of morons. reD Lyrium.

 

Cory, Magister darkspawn thing, created an archdemon sort of thing and scared teh crap out of the wardens.

 

rEd lyRium, find out that Red Lyrium is accutly blighted darkspawn Lyrium, and that Lyrium is thus alive. *Storie because of Varric*

 

Orlise is just yet another corrpted government and is thinking more about The Game, than anything else. (somehow Red Lyrium wasn't envoled I think it was an oversight by the writers)

 

Open worlds that take too long, collection quest which gives you magic resist buffs.

 

Find out that Triventor isn't "All" bad just mostly all bad. *Storty because of Doran*

 

More ReD lYrIuM. And then Elven god and goods. Flemth is Myrthial. And that Elves wheren't as great as the Dalish have been saying. In fact they where just as bad as humans. If not for the fact that they where being lead by some sort of spirits.

 

Then fainal battle with Cory, then you find out that you where hanging out with the Dread Wolf and that he was responeable for the whole thing.

[Rekkampum]

Bioware excels at character-writing more than anything else, when it comes to their RPGs. I wouldn't say the romances seem more important than the main plot. I like being able to simply be friends with some of them instead of choosing to romance them - Varric and Vivienne, for instance - or having romancing something that complements the player rather than stand as some sort of plot device - ahem... Jack and Cortez. When it comes down to it all, since getting to know characters is something we invest a lot of our time in, a lot of attention will naturally come to how those we can/can't romance are depicted.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

All's fair in love and killing everything in sight. It's not breaking anyone up unless you actually dissolve a relationship that's already developed. Ain't nothin' preordained up in here.

Breaking up isn't the correct phrasing. Stopping a relationship from happening is better.

 

Hrm, I always thought of it as a kind of alternate reality. My Hawke could look like or behave in any number of ways... I guess in my head I just see such alternatives as those characters also being variant versions of themselves.

 

Plus I really dislike the implication that everyone your char meets is basically asexual until or unless you come along... 

That's fine. I'm no saying people who like that shouldn't. I just don't like it. It doesn't help that it tends to be my favorite LIs who get chosen for that thus can't do those arcs anymore. 

 

As for the second part, what's wrong with that? Asexuals and Demisexuals can use more representation in media. 

 

This is like saying you shouldn't date anyone at all, ever, because they'll find someone else if you don't date them.

And? 

[Elsariel]

 

And? 

 

 

...aaand... that's no way to live?  I mean, you CAN go through life not taking a chance on anyone because you might be depriving them of having happiness with phantom other person but.... sounds really lonely.

[frylock23]

Honestly, Jack is one of the characters I would have cut from ME2 because she never made sense as a character to have on a mission that needs tight military precision. She's too much of a loose cannon.

 

Similarly, I would have cut Thane because there was no need for an assassin.

 

Don't get me wrong. They are both well-written characters, but the particular story we were in had no need or place for them.

[schall_und_rauch]

Think about it this way: People buy the game because of the romance, the game advertises its romances, so the game makes money because of the romances.
More money made ==> more money available for development. Game companies making money is good, because, differently to what some people might think here, developers do not subsist alone on the love and the positive reinforment that is the BW Forum.

BioWare has found a market niche, and they'd be really stupid if they stopped the romance thing now.

[AWTEW]

Think about it this way: People buy the game because of the romance, the game advertises its romances, so the game makes money because of the romances.More money made ==> more money available for development. Game companies making money is good, because, differently to what some people might think here, developers do not subsist alone on the love and the positive reinforment that is the BW Forum.BioWare has found a market niche, and they'd be really stupid if they stopped the romance thing now.

Indeed, and news spreads. I have known people who have bought DA games, just because they heard about the romances.

[crimzontearz]

DA would definitely be better if it keeps the same protag from game to game , all resources wasted on " starting over " and different races could be allocated elsewhere , which is why i was excited with Bioware's initial plan of making the Inquisitor human only.

Yes but then there is the downside of keeping the same protagonist....at the end of the saga the developers seem to feel obligated to force kill him because ART!

Ok maybe they will show us also a torso taking one breath but never elaborate and then give mixed messages to the fans and no word of god because that is cool too.

No seriously....I will take different protagonists over the possibility of that bull****

[Violetbliss]

I feel like all dragon ages are more about the frosting than the cake. I don't think the cake is like as unique or epic as the baldur's gate cake, for example, but the frosting is delicious.

 Great way of putting it... DA2 has perhaps the best main story to me, except that one extra fight (<.<), but DAO and DAI doesn't have that stellar main quests if you look at the actual journey steps you took towards the goal. However, the frosting as you put it makes it so worth playing the games, more than once just to see what can happen when mixing new companions etc. I've always thought this was Bioware's true strength, not the actual main arc but making it breathe.

[AWTEW]

Yes but then there is the downside of keeping the same protagonist....at the end of the saga the developers seem to feel obligated to force kill him because ART!
Ok maybe they will show us also a torso taking one breath but never elaborate and then give mixed messages to the fans and no word of god because that is cool too.
No seriously....I will take different protagonists over the possibility of that bull****

However, in saying that..different protagonists tend to cause problems as well. Hence the constant : bring back the warden threads.

[crimzontearz]

However, in saying that..different protagonists tend to cause problems as well. Hence the constant : bring back the warden threads.

I choose the lesser evil


That "art" ruined a whole trilogy for me.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

...aaand... that's no way to live?  I mean, you CAN go through life not taking a chance on anyone because you might be depriving them of having happiness with phantom other person but.... sounds really lonely.

It's fine. I'm used to that feeling. 

 

 

However, in saying that..different protagonists tend to cause problems as well. Hence the constant : bring back the warden threads.

Or the developers ruining your version of the protagonists, like Hawke or even worse Revan. 

[Bluto Blutarskyx]

No-

but I still feel that so long as buoware choses to leave out group sex options and romance triangles like in dao (using persuasion to keep multiples going as long as possible), then the romances are lacking.

Actually- the lack of persuade/intimidate stat and skill selection makes this game sorely lacking. It has a very deep impact on the game and how you build your character.

It's one of the reasons why Bethseda will still be sitting on top and bioware just will not be. Dai was a step in the right direction, but the oversimplification of skills is hurting biowares games.