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[Kai-Sar Adaar]

I was reading a topic about the Architect and his relationship to Corypheus, as in whether or not the similarities between the two could be evidence for him being one of the original Tevinter Darkspawn, and a lot people kept debating whether him having no memory of such origins eliminated their possibility.  While there were some good points on both sides of the argument, I kept waiting for someone to bring up the Architect's nature as an unreliable source, and strangely enough no one did.

 

So basically I'm trying to propose the idea (which may have been proposed before admittably, though possibly not after Inquisition's release) that the Architect was/is one of the Tevinter Magisters, and is aware of that fact, but feigned ignorance in an effort to win our Warden-Commander's trust.  I personally would have been far less amiable towards him in Awakening if I knew that he caused not only my Blight but all Blights, and I believe his awareness of this coupled with his desire to avoid confrontation with the (possible) Hero of Fereldan could have served as sufficient motivation for him to mislead us in an effort to win our trust.

 

Thoughts?

[LightningPoodle]

That is a valid point and it's something to ponder upon. I myself wouldn't put all of my trust in him considering a) he's a darkspawn and he's an unknown. When you meet him, all you know off him are rumours, so putting your all of your faith in him based on rumour is pretty silly.

[TEWR]

If he had been upfront with me it would've given me more reason to trust him. That's a heavy thing to confess to someone who'd probably kill you for it. If you would want an alliance and you said something like *that*, it's a gamble.

 

And one that would make me more inclined to side with him, because he risked everything in so doing.

[LightningPoodle]

If he had been upfront with me it would've given me more reason to trust him. That's a heavy thing to confess to someone who'd probably kill you for it. If you would want an alliance and you said something like *that*, it's a gamble.

 

And one that would make me more inclined to side with him, because he risked everything in so doing.

 

I can see where you are coming from and that would be my ideal as well but, what if you also heard his reasons for doing so? I'm inclined to believe, if he was one of those magisters, he would have been doing it for some personal, evil, twisted ideal that would leave everyone suffering.

[_Lucinia]

How much Corypheus and the Architect look alike can't be a coincidence.  I remember the first time I played Legacy, first thing I thought of was "Holy crap I bet the Architect is a Magister too!".

The Architect gains nothing by admitting he's a Magister.  Or it could be like others have speculated and he has no memory of who or what he was before becoming a Darkspawn.  

I hope one day it's addressed.  It could be something we'll see later on, maybe even more of the Magisters.  

[Kai-Sar Adaar]

If he had been upfront with me it would've given me more reason to trust him. That's a heavy thing to confess to someone who'd probably kill you for it. If you would want an alliance and you said something like *that*, it's a gamble.

 

And one that would make me more inclined to side with him, because he risked everything in so doing.

There is something to be said for honesty, I'll give you that, but even so I don't think the Architect himself would have trusted us enough to tell us even if we would have heard him out.  I mean, we saw the immense backlash all of Thedas had against Corypheus once his origins got out, so it would be in his best interests not to tell anyone about his origins simply out of fear of what we or anyone else that learns of them might do.

[Kai-Sar Adaar]

Also, think about your companions and his Gray Warden assistants.  If he revealed the truth to us, he would also have to reveal it to them, possibly putting the loyalty of those who already support him in jeopardy.

[Ranadiel Marius]

Based on what we know of his goals, it seems unlikely. He doesn't desire power for himself, he doesn't wand to restore Tevinter or return to the Black City. What he wants is to save the Darkspawn from the Calling. His actions fit with someone who desires that but lacks common sense that a person would normally develop while growing up around other people. I really don't see any plan that he might have which would match his actions as well as what he has stated.

 

So what exactly is his plan if he is indeed a Magister? He's creating intelligent Darkspawn. Cory displays the ability to create a psuedo calling, so if he wanted a Darkspawn army, he shouldn't need to make them intelligent (and doing so would probably make them immune to the psuedo-calling). I just don't see any reason why an ancient magister would want to free the Darkspawn.

[Kai-Sar Adaar]

Based on what we know of his goals, it seems unlikely. He doesn't desire power for himself, he doesn't wand to restore Tevinter or return to the Black City. What he wants is to save the Darkspawn from the Calling. His actions fit with someone who desires that but lacks common sense that a person would normally develop while growing up around other people. I really don't see any plan that he might have which would match his actions as well as what he has stated.

 

So what exactly is his plan if he is indeed a Magister? He's creating intelligent Darkspawn. Cory displays the ability to create a psuedo calling, so if he wanted a Darkspawn army, he shouldn't need to make them intelligent (and doing so would probably make them immune to the psuedo-calling). I just don't see any reason why an ancient magister would want to free the Darkspawn.

Perhaps he regrets his role as instigator of the Blights and is trying to end them as a form of atonement?  I wouldn't agree with his methods regardless but I could at least understand his motivations if that were the case.  

[myahele]

There was a codex entry of a dwarf lost in the deeproads that bumped into intelligent darkspawn dressed as kings and talking about a black city, but also displaying a bit of amnesia. It is odd that Architect is the only one that doesn't remember entering the city.

Unless of course he remembers and is filled with regret + the fact that not a lot of people would help him in his quest if people found out he was one of the magister that introduced the blight into thedas. Its bad enough that he awoked urthemiel.

Him lying isn't too farfetched.

[Sifr]

There's also that codex entry from a dwarf who claimed to have met a talking Darkspawn who was ridiculously polite and offered him tea... which definitely sounds like the Architect. And really, it was that weird blend of manners and ambiguous motives, that made me like him and consider him a far more interesting character than Corypheus, as you never knew if he was to be trusted or not?

[Kai-Sar Adaar]

There's also that codex entry from a dwarf who claimed to have met a talking Darkspawn who was ridiculously polite and offered him tea... which definitely sounds like the Architect. And really, it was that weird blend of manners and ambiguous motives, that made me like him and consider him a far more interesting character than Corypheus, as you never knew if he was to be trusted or not?

Which too me is an indication that the Architect behaves far too civilized to have been raised among Darkspawn.  It's almost as if he was once a incredibly affluent mage lord in the distant past *wink* *wink*

[Mims]

I love the Architect. Each game that passes with no word from him or the other intelligent darkspawn saddens me. 

[Sifr]

It also makes me wonder if he lost his memory in a similar manner to the Inquisitor when they first entered the Fade physically?

[QweenBeen]

Is it an accepted fact that the ancient magisters caused the blight? There were absolutely no darkspawn prior, like the dwarves dug too deep or something? Just strikes me that if the architect didn't mention he was an ancient magister if he in fact is, 1) he could be lying, yeah or 2) mentioning he's an ancient magister is irrelevant to him because he has no idea that the populace attributes them to having started the blight.

Can someone explain how a handful of magisters can be the first darkspawn that just becomes a horde of millions? Lore question, really...

Corypheus does say the seat of the maker was empty when he got there, and yeah he could very well be lying too, but if it wasn't empty, does he really think he could oust the maker? So confused...

[Kai-Sar Adaar]

Is it an accepted fact that the ancient magisters caused the blight? There were absolutely no darkspawn prior, like the dwarves dug too deep or something? Just strikes me that if the architect didn't mention he was an ancient magister if he in fact is, 1) he could be lying, yeah or 2) mentioning he's an ancient magister is irrelevant to him because he has no idea that the populace attributes them to having started the blight.

Can someone explain how a handful of magisters can be the first darkspawn that just becomes a horde of millions? Lore question, really...

Corypheus does say the seat of the maker was empty when he got there, and yeah he could very well be lying too, but if it wasn't empty, does he really think he could oust the maker? So confused...

Either one of them became a Broodmother, or one of them made a Broodmother?

[Sifr]

Either one of them became a Broodmother, or one of them made a Broodmother?

 

Most likely, they spread the taint by accident and created ghouls in their wake, the male ghouls were driven to transform the women into broodmothers, who then went and birthed the first generation of Darkspawn?

 

Alternately, they created the Darkspawn by accident, after trying and failing to cure their own corruption?

[QweenBeen]

Yeah makes sense. Guess the first broodmothers would've been dwarves, huh? Lots o genlock babies..

But what of the magisters? They definitely started this whole fiasco?

[myahele]

I think there were women among the 7 magisters

[Zombie Chow]

When I 1st saw Corypheus in the shadows, I thought he WAS the Architect.  There's been a new engine, I already saw King Alistair and Queen Anora looking a little different, so I thought it was merely a new design.  I also had skipped DA2, so didn't know Corypheus from before.  On this issue, I saw 2 possibilities:

 

1.) He WAS lying for the reasons you mentioned

 

Why lie?  You already pointed it out, there's no benefit to admitting he was a Tevinter Magister, especially if he was trying to fix the Blight.

 

But why fix the Blight?  Redemption is definitely a possibility as he seems genuinely remorseful, but another reason was, as evil as the 7 ancient Tevinter Magisters were, they never wanted to create Darkspawn.  They were supposed to take over the Golden City for themselves or their gods.  He may have seen the Darkspawn as an unintended side effect.

 

Or was he really fixing the Blight?  Did he try to guide Darkspawn in a way that would give him an army to try taking over the Golden City again, as Corypheus was planning?  Whereas Corypheus used Mages and Templars and Wardens and Demons, maybe the Architect was doing the same with the Darkspawn around him.  He's playing the hand he's been dealt.

 

2.) He actually does NOT know

 

At 1st, I thought it's been a thousand years, he woke up confused, thus he doesn't know his true nature.

 

But the mention of how the Inquisitor had memories lost in the Fade...that's very possible.  Good point, Sifr et al.

 

---

 

I remember my main Warden Commander letting the Architect live, because if Darkspawn exist to fight, let them fight among themselves and keep it off the surface or even the Deep Roads.  I figured if they ever revealed themselves, I'd be able to wipe them out as I did Mother as I was an awesome Arcane Warrior.  Now I realise my own hubris and I better figure out a cure to The Calling or brief the Inquisitor to clean up this loose end.

[Kai-Sar Adaar]

When I 1st saw Corypheus in the shadows, I thought he WAS the Architect.  There's been a new engine, I already saw King Alistair and Queen Anora looking a little different, so I thought it was merely a new design.  I also had skipped DA2, so didn't know Corypheus from before.  On this issue, I saw 2 possibilities:

 

1.) He WAS lying for the reasons you mentioned

 

Why lie?  You already pointed it out, there's no benefit to admitting he was a Tevinter Magister, especially if he was trying to fix the Blight.

 

But why fix the Blight?  Redemption is definitely a possibility as he seems genuinely remorseful, but another reason was, as evil as the 7 ancient Tevinter Magisters were, they never wanted to create Darkspawn.  They were supposed to take over the Golden City for themselves or their gods.  He may have seen the Darkspawn as an unintended side effect.

 

Or was he really fixing the Blight?  Did he try to guide Darkspawn in a way that would give him an army to try taking over the Golden City again, as Corypheus was planning?  Whereas Corypheus used Mages and Templars and Wardens and Demons, maybe the Architect was doing the same with the Darkspawn around him.  He's playing the hand he's been dealt.

 

2.) He actually does NOT know

 

At 1st, I thought it's been a thousand years, he woke up confused, thus he doesn't know his true nature.

 

But the mention of how the Inquisitor had memories lost in the Fade...that's very possible.  Good point, Sifr et al.

 

---

 

I remember my main Warden Commander letting the Architect live, because if Darkspawn exist to fight, let them fight among themselves and keep it off the surface or even the Deep Roads.  I figured if they ever revealed themselves, I'd be able to wipe them out as I did Mother as I was an awesome Arcane Warrior.  Now I realise my own hubris and I better figure out a cure to The Calling or brief the Inquisitor to clean up this loose end.

I like you're suggestion that the Architect could have more nefarious motives than he let on.  I personally have only sided with him in one playthrough because frankly I have about as much trust in him as I would a Blood Mage on Red Lyrium.

[M-Taylor]

Think it's worth mentioning that Corypheus was in stasis while the Architect was not. A substantial amount of time had passed yet Corypheus awoke like the ritual was performed yesterday, which might explain why his memory was in tact, however the Architect was conscience during that entire time. It really might be as simple as that he's forgot due to his excessive life span, which I think would be really cool. Most fantasy genres with 'immortal' characters portray memory poorly, so if the Architect really has just forgotten, Bioware would get a big + from me.

[Kai-Sar Adaar]

M-Taylor and Sifr both bring up good points for the "he forgot" theory.  Although, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he directly state that he was born the way he was? It seems strange that he would do this if he was actually suffering from amnesia.

[AshenEndymion]

M-Taylor and Sifr both bring up good points for the "he forgot" theory.  Although, correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't he directly state that he was born the way he was? It seems strange that he would do this if he was actually suffering from amnesia.

 

The Architect says he woke up one day looking as he does, and knows not how or why it happened.  But he doesn't say anything about when he woke up...

 

I believe it's plausible that the Architect knew what he was...  But while I am certain the Architect has(or had, if he's dead, though after Corypheus, I'm less sure of that) ulterior motives with regards to awakening the Darkspawn, I'm not sure if those motives are because he knows he's a Magister who entered the Black City.

[Lady Artifice]

This is interesting. The thing about the architect, though, is his totally alien, almost naive approach to any concept of morality. Even Corypheus has a concept of something. Some idea of the way he thinks the world should work and its rooted in his mentality as a magister. I look at Corypheus and I see a monster with the mind of a man.

The Architect doesnt dismiss ideas he doesnt agree with. He's completely baffled by them. My point is, if he was a Magister, I think he HAS forgotten. I dont think he has any memory of being a part of any society.