So, if it wasn't obvious, I'm playing a rogue archer. Got the trainers, but haven't finished collecting crap for them. I already ruled out assassin and I'm trying to decide between artificer and tempest. Artificer seems really useful with the archer because traps right? But tempest seems more fun to me. Maybe a bit less useful? I'm really kinda stumped on this right now....
Anyway, Advice? Thoughts? opinions? innuendos? dirty looks? scoffs?
I am going through as a mage, but I find myself always controlling Sera with Tempest. It's so much fun.
Artificer:
Forget the traps. This is not why Artificer shine. See the second skill in the tree? Yeah, that one. 0.5 off CDs each crit? This means you won't have any CD on your skill once you reach a good crit chance! To add to it, see the passives "It Looked Like it hurts" In Sabotage? Yeah. 10 stamina on crit! What does this means? At about level 14-15 you become a turret. Long shot and Full Draw spam all day long. On dragons it's Leaping shot spam(12 hits. 12 crits. 120 stamina back. 6 sec of CD).
Tempest:
In short: Tempest is defensive. Though the focus ability is the best in the game. If you use focus abilities, that might make it worth it. Otherwise:
Flask of Lightning - Not a damage increase. Let's you get off 3 abilities + some auto attack while the enemies are frozen.
Flask of Fire - I think you can get out 2 Full Draw or 3-4 Long Shots during this time. Artificer gets a passive FoF-effect going with crit.
Flask of Frost - useless on an archer.
If you don't care about efficiency, then it can be run down with:
Artificer: CD reduction and traps. Focus ability being a good 8/10
Tempest: Slow down time and burst during FoF. Focus being a good 10/10.
The game is easy enough that you can run with whatever specialization you want. It doesn't matter too much. As long as you have fun! Just save before you choose your specalization, and you can always go back at a later stage and try the others. Or, you know, just try out Cole/Sera/Varric!
Artificer. All day every day.
I am planning to play artificer on my next playthrough, potentially having unlimited stamina and virtually no downtime on my attacks sounds very tempting. Tempest is fun though, but the only reason I really like the spec is cause of Flask of Lightning, cause it freezes those annoying, dive spamming terror demon bastards.
Artificer:
Forget the traps.
Hello? Hello? Are you there? I can't hear you over the sound of my upgraded Elemental Mines exploding EVERYTHING....
Hello? Hello? Are you there? I can't hear you over the sound of my upgraded Elemental Mines exploding EVERYTHING....
They are rather short ranged, meaning you have to go into melee to use efficient. This means you lose time, or damage due to the damage modifier from range on Long Shot and Full Draw.
But, yeah. Stuff exploding is fun!
They are rather short ranged, meaning you have to go into melee to use efficient. This means you lose time, or damage due to the damage modifier from range on Long Shot and Full Draw.
But, yeah. Stuff exploding is fun!
Which is why my artificer is dual wielding daggers.
I know Opportunity Knocks alone is great for an archer, but I would feel bad about not exploding stuff 
Rogue Archer. Artificer or Tempest?
Which is why I mentioned "forget traps". Archer does not benefit from them, just as Flask of Frost is not efficient as an archer either.
Which is why I mentioned "forget traps". Archer does not benefit from them, just as Flask of Frost is not efficient as an archer either.
How doesn't the archer benefit from traps?
- throw traps down
- enemy attempts to attack
- enemy goes boom
1) If en enemy attacks you, you fucked up.
2) If an enemy is close, you do no damage and fucked up.
2 of 3 main damage abilities of an archer needs range to be effective. It's in direct contrast to traps.
1) If en enemy attacks you, you fucked up.
2) If an enemy is close, you do no damage and fucked up.
2 of 3 main damage abilities of an archer needs range to be effective. It's in direct contrast to traps.
What? I'm talking about using traps defensively, so I don't have to run around like an idiot waiting for Cass to pick up the aggro.
Yeah...
Then you fucked up.
Point is; Traps are not why you go for Artificer as an archer. It's a single passive that works so incredible well with the class. You can use them, sure; but it's inefficient. Even a non-specialization archer will out perform a trap-archer. There simply is no synergy between needing-range-to-damage and close-range-traps.
You can use whatever want, but traps are not efficient for archers. It's as simple as that.
Yeah...
Then you fucked up.
Point is; Traps are not why you go for Artificer as an archer. It's a single passive that works so incredible well with the class. You can use them, sure; but it's inefficient. Even a non-specialization archer will out perform a trap-archer. There simply is no synergy between needing-range-to-damage and close-range-traps.
You can use whatever want, but traps are not efficient for archers. It's as simple as that.
Wouldn't it be better to word it in a different way then you are? Like maybe explain how to help utilize Cassandra to hold agro or something helpful?
Mainly just so you can better explain why using traps defensively, just isn't the best plan. While skill synergy is important, defenses are too, despite you being right on the subject. So by explaining how to better utilize Cass, the idea of the added defenses of the mines goes away.
Wouldn't it be better to word it in a different way then you are? Like maybe explain how to help utilize Cassandra to hold agro or something helpful?
Mainly just so you can better explain why using traps defensively, just isn't the best plan. While skill synergy is important, defenses are too, despite you being right on the subject. So by explaining how to better utilize Cass, the idea of the added defenses of the mines goes away.
Of course I could. I don't feel like it though. The post isn't about how to play well, how to set up your team well or why artificers trap isn't good for archers. It's a quick question from somebody probably not into minmaxing/breaking the game just yet. So I answer the question at hand: Artificer doesn't utilize traps because it's counterproductive to be in melee range.
But sure, let's go:
- Cassandra/Blackwall/Iron Bull gets 2 taunts. Use them. Challenger and War Cry. Set them to preferred. Set them to follow themselves. utilize quick-attack button.
- As an archer you are ranged. Use full draw on a distant target while you send your tank into the main group. Your shot should come out just as the tank gets initiate aggro on all enemies.
- If you get aggro, you stealth.
With that it is near impossible to get aggro. If tanks gets beaten up, you can utilize explosive shot to get them off.
And for another quickie:
Long Shot - your main ability. Low CD, decent damage, requires range and takes a second to shoot.
Full Draw - Your second main ability. Longer CD, huge damage unharmed enemies - OK damage otherwise. Requires range.
Explosive Shot - AoE Knockback. Perfect CC and perfect poison spreader.
Leaping Shot - 12 shots. Your best ability if you can hit with all 12. Otherwise mediocre.
Poisoned Weapons - Deals low poison damage over X seconds. Can be spread fast with Explosive Shot. If you can shoot 3 or more enemies with it, it's worth it.
Stealth - Damage bonus, low CD, aggro dump - best ability you got.
Evade - Evade attacks, get range and avoid terror demons AoE.
Looked Like it Hurts - 10 stamina back on crit. This is how you gain stamina!
Cheap Shot - Armor penetration on crit. Lower armor --> more damage!
Dance of Death - 50 stamina on kill. More stamina!
Pincushion - % more damage per hit on the enemies, stacking.
*Forgot the name* - 25% more damage at 2 meters elevation above enemies.
That's the core of an archer. As an artificer with some crit on the team(Kill Greater bears in the forest, level 16) you will have Long Shot refreshed just about every 2-3 second, and full drawn in 10 or so. On bigger enemies you can spam Leaping Shot non-stop for some insane damage.
But let's look through what we got: 7 abilities. You could opt to take out Leaping Shot if you want though. If you want the focus we are at 8. This means you either need to take out Leaping Shot, the focus ability or some of the core to use traps.
The second issue is the damage modifiers on our 2 main attacks. Long shot get 600% damage at 25 meters range, and Full Draw get even more. To utilize traps you need to be close. This means you got 2 choices; Use long shot and lose out on 600% damage modifier, or run out of range -- wasting time. Neither is really worth the time, to be honest. If you get aggro for some reason, you got 2 choices there as well: Explosive shot + quick command tank to attack it/taunt it or stealth.
That said, if you feel you might get aggro from time to time, then get the first trap out and drop either the focus or leaping shot. I never play with focus abilities, so I got the extra spot. It's low cost and deals 300% damage (I think). When messing around, or cornered in a small room, it's pretty cool. If you want elemental mines as well, you got another issue: What to drop? You could drop the poison, but it's decent damage on an archer. You could drop explosive shot -- but it's decent AoE.
A trap artificer is best for a DW rogue where the range is not an issue. However play as you want. You can play DA I on nightmare with any build you want as long as you got your tank set up right. Stuff might die slower -- but everything dies.
In my lastest playthrough I went with Assassin and Archer. Hidden Blades procs of ranged attack the armor debuff means high crits 
,
Right, we'll have to disagree on the Artificer. Opportunity Knocks synergizes the best with multiple hit abilities, e.g. Leaping Shot and upgraded Elemental Mines. With high crit chance, those proc so often that you basically have no cooldown and full stamina all the time. And while you might gain increased damage on Full Draw/Long Shot, I'll just stealth in and kill the whole mob in a few casts of mines, which have virtually no cooldown. So, the time I'm losing in closing I'll more than compensate for with mine obliteration. Not to mention, that if I get Hook&Tackle, closing in will be even less of a time-waste.
So, after the mob is dead and gone, the bosses are the other issue. And while you get your distance multipliers, as long as I keep reasonably close, I hit for basically 400-500% WD per cast of Leaping Shot, which by now I can just chain one after the other, I'm more limited by it's animation time than anything else. For Long Shot to be refreshed that fast you need to gear your party specifically for it, whereas I put out comparable cooldown reduction by myself. Also, while you hit with one arrow, I'll hit with 8 to 12 (admittedly at half WD). Now, factor in Pincushion...
Long range Archer Artificer, while extremely effective, needs just a bit more time to clear the game than a Mine/Leaping Shot spammer. It'd be interesting to compare them to Archer Assassin, though.
Snip
While I strongly disagree that a mine-archer can out damage a Oppurtunity Knock archer, I say as I always do: Everything works in this game. It is not difficult. It's just very odd to play a class weakness instead of its strength. It makes very little sense!
Also, Opportunity knock doesn't just benefit from multi-hit abilities. A team hosting 2 character with 70%+ crit (Sera and you) and 2 at about 30% (Solas and Blackwall) means Long shot is always off CD single-target. This means you are hitting 4k-12k hits every 2 seconds on any target you choose - regardless of range. This means 1 shotting every non-tank and a few attacks drop a tank. by the timer you get close, the enemies are dead.
As an artificer archer I love to do silly things.
Like Hook and tackle -> Place a spike trap -> Leaping Shot
And with the distance of leaping shot and the pop up of the trap you can toss some elemental mines. So when they get up, they explode some more 
Or start with fall back plan and have it upgraded with bait and switch.
Take a couple steps back.
Throw some elemental mines.
Now hook and tackle -> place spike trap -> Leaping shot -> hook and tackle -> fallback plan -> they step on elemental mines = glorious fun :DD
Seriously, hook and tackle is so overlooked. Don't want to take fall damage and there are enemies below you?
Zip line to the chest!
They are rather short ranged, meaning you have to go into melee to use efficient. This means you lose time, or damage due to the damage modifier from range on Long Shot and Full Draw.
But, yeah. Stuff exploding is fun!
Yeah...
Then you fucked up.
Point is; Traps are not why you go for Artificer as an archer. It's a single passive that works so incredible well with the class. You can use them, sure; but it's inefficient. Even a non-specialization archer will out perform a trap-archer. There simply is no synergy between needing-range-to-damage and close-range-traps.
You can use whatever want, but traps are not efficient for archers. It's as simple as that.
Then I went through the whole game Pucking up! It's no fun when you don't. 
Of course I could. I don't feel like it though. The post isn't about how to play well, how to set up your team well or why artificers trap isn't good for archers. It's a quick question from somebody probably not into minmaxing/breaking the game just yet. So I answer the question at hand: Artificer doesn't utilize traps because it's counterproductive to be in melee range.
But sure, let's go:
- Cassandra/Blackwall/Iron Bull gets 2 taunts. Use them. Challenger and War Cry. Set them to preferred. Set them to follow themselves. utilize quick-attack button.
- As an archer you are ranged. Use full draw on a distant target while you send your tank into the main group. Your shot should come out just as the tank gets initiate aggro on all enemies.
- If you get aggro, you stealth.
With that it is near impossible to get aggro. If tanks gets beaten up, you can utilize explosive shot to get them off.
And for another quickie:
Long Shot - your main ability. Low CD, decent damage, requires range and takes a second to shoot.
Full Draw - Your second main ability. Longer CD, huge damage unharmed enemies - OK damage otherwise. Requires range.
Explosive Shot - AoE Knockback. Perfect CC and perfect poison spreader.
Leaping Shot - 12 shots. Your best ability if you can hit with all 12. Otherwise mediocre.
Poisoned Weapons - Deals low poison damage over X seconds. Can be spread fast with Explosive Shot. If you can shoot 3 or more enemies with it, it's worth it.
Stealth - Damage bonus, low CD, aggro dump - best ability you got.
Evade - Evade attacks, get range and avoid terror demons AoE.
Looked Like it Hurts - 10 stamina back on crit. This is how you gain stamina!
Cheap Shot - Armor penetration on crit. Lower armor --> more damage!
Dance of Death - 50 stamina on kill. More stamina!
Pincushion - % more damage per hit on the enemies, stacking.
*Forgot the name* - 25% more damage at 2 meters elevation above enemies.
That's the core of an archer. As an artificer with some crit on the team(Kill Greater bears in the forest, level 16) you will have Long Shot refreshed just about every 2-3 second, and full drawn in 10 or so. On bigger enemies you can spam Leaping Shot non-stop for some insane damage.
But let's look through what we got: 7 abilities. You could opt to take out Leaping Shot if you want though. If you want the focus we are at 8. This means you either need to take out Leaping Shot, the focus ability or some of the core to use traps.
The second issue is the damage modifiers on our 2 main attacks. Long shot get 600% damage at 25 meters range, and Full Draw get even more. To utilize traps you need to be close. This means you got 2 choices; Use long shot and lose out on 600% damage modifier, or run out of range -- wasting time. Neither is really worth the time, to be honest. If you get aggro for some reason, you got 2 choices there as well: Explosive shot + quick command tank to attack it/taunt it or stealth.
That said, if you feel you might get aggro from time to time, then get the first trap out and drop either the focus or leaping shot. I never play with focus abilities, so I got the extra spot. It's low cost and deals 300% damage (I think). When messing around, or cornered in a small room, it's pretty cool. If you want elemental mines as well, you got another issue: What to drop? You could drop the poison, but it's decent damage on an archer. You could drop explosive shot -- but it's decent AoE.
A trap artificer is best for a DW rogue where the range is not an issue. However play as you want. You can play DA I on nightmare with any build you want as long as you got your tank set up right. Stuff might die slower -- but everything dies.
Sorry for the late reply but i really appreciate you taking the time to take care of that. It's just that simply telling someone it is counterproductive without explaining truly why and how seems a bit...well...pointless.
You gave a small example originally sure but in a way that you probably shouldn't. Now while your post didn't need to be so detailed , this way is how you should do so.
So Kudos to you mate for going the extra mile and really showing that awesome knowledge.
I enjoyed the debate about the differences between Opportunity Knocks and Mine focused approaches. I guess the way I would look at it is, be aware of your surroundings. A great deal of the environments have loads of open space for the range you need, but there are also a few spots where close quarters might force you to come up with an alternate approach. This is where the mines would come in very handy.
I can definitely see the advantage of taking another rogue like Sera with you, in order to stack those crits and keep the cooldown at a minimum.
No one has mentioned this, but I wondered what your thoughts are on being cautious with big hits using Long Shot and Full Draw. I read in a discussion about the multiplayer archer that people are careful not to draw aggro from ranged enemies with these big hits if they aren't sure they can put them down completely. Mostly, people said it was dangerous because you could draw the attention of other archers hitting you with Full Draw. Anyone find this to be an issue in the single player campaign?
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