81 réponses à ce sujet

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

next game scoobysnacks for your tean.

"stay..i said stay....good boy blackwall stay.. NO BAD SOLUS i told you to stay no treats for you." 

[SofaJockey]

It's easy to get nostalgic.

Everything was not perfect.

 

Baldur's Gate players, do you remember how your party members would jam in doorways and then try to find a long way round, attracting aggro as they went and dying half way across the map?

 

One thing DAI has done well is your party not getting stuck in doorways.

I can't think of a single blockage.

 

Other issues I have to put at the door of moving to Frostbite 3.

I'm guessing that engine was a lot less compatible for Dragon Age than we thought. 

 

Now that we are on Frostbite 3, I look forward to it being finessed.

[ThirstyKIRST]

Ummm hold position works just like it used to.......

[pasmith31]

No. In Tac Cam they hold position without problems even without line of sight. There's even a video that proves it in the combat section.

The only way the Hold Position is override in Tac Cam is if you assign an order (as attack or move). If you use Hold Position and let the AI behave naturally it works flawlessly. You can either switch to normal cam and the Hold order is carried without problems.

The fact is: 90% of the people that complain don't really know how to do things and yet they complain. Just looking around in the various threads and you have a lot of proofs of this. The most absurd and blatantly false statements come from those that hate the game. Just a minute ago I was in a thread where a guy hated the game greatly and he opened with "Bioware didn't either put the possibility of having a behind the shoulder cam in tactical mode". Oh well... probably the guy didn't either try to move the mouse around in tac cam it seems, yet he had no problems complaining about it.

You might be right, but with so many people complaining about hold position that you say works fine, maybe they should redesign the hold position command so that people don't have to spend so much time trying to figure out the trick to get it to work. It seems to me very little works the way it did in past DA games plus its not much use looking in the manual for any tips. I mean I've used hold position hundreds of times and it rarely worked in a manner I would expect it too. Lucky the combat was so simple it wasn't really required even on nightmare and I normally can't beat a game on nightmare modes.

[ThirteenthJester13]

Those were the days, a golden era when all was right in the world of gaming.

Try putting your Rogues and Mages on FOLLOW then THEIR OWN NAE like have Varric FOLLOW Varric and they stay back. Also if you have them individually hold position which takes like 2 seonds more then they will stay in that position until yu get quite a bit of distance in between. If you want warriors to hold position have them defend themselves then keep them positioned out of ranged enemies and they wont attack unless attacked. Its rkinda stupid how the tactical **** works but it does.

 

Telling my team to stand aside would e be cool or, Everyone Stand fast, charge, flank left vrric flank right blackwall, follow me Cassandra watch my back. Back to back formations. Two rogues back to back firng off arrows, or two warriors back to back holding down the fort.

 

In Nightmare mode do they increae the number of enemie you fight or just there health and armor and what not. In some missions where you'd hear the clamour of battle in the background you cold stop and hold the camera still and literally see how disconnected the atmosphere suddnely becomes as their s NO one in sight. I can understand a backround track of battle sounds in a large scale bravehaert style battle but in medium scale or small scale why not just let the real time sound do the trick? Bioware needs some new Gameplay designers. The writers and concept artists are decent, except for the fact that there has to be equal ale and female ratio with your companions and i really don't like IRON BULL. Ive never been a fan of Large superhuman looking characters. I mean give that dude a dwarven rock crushr and he should take out legions. It doent fit. Qunari weren't a big fav for me. I liked the Old DAO classes like NOble born or City Born and stuf like that. WHat if i don't want my Human to be a Highborn brat. What if i wat him to have a grittier background to match his badass badassness? Plus I'd like the option to not only choose my dialogue but also choose tone, and delivery. Having that option all the time as well as having the option to make something a Lie or Decide whether or not something you say is sincere or insincere. But first lets get the battle tactics down.

 

[...] witcher 3 keeps getting puhshed back. Now its MAY 19th. I'll be another year old and I bet The Order will be a large disappointment and Battlfield Hardline may end up surprising gamrs, Nothin real good till May but  a bunch of games ths year. atleast 2 or 3 will be amazing.

Modifié par BioWareMod02, 03 janvier 2015 - 02:36 .
Edited to remove inappropriate language

[Salaya]

The fact is: 90% of the people that complain don't really know how to do things and yet they complain. Just looking around in the various threads and you have a lot of proofs of this. The most absurd and blatantly false statements come from those that hate the game.

 

Ah, yes. Of course! People is stupid, they just hate without justification a wonderful game that let them hold position with just one click or key or multiselect characters to issue different orders! How blatantly false and absurd they are!

 

Oh, wait..

[GreyJedi727]

The only time I had to use Hold was during a puzzle that you couldn't move fast enough on, so you had to use all your members based on where they were (atleast I did). I think it was an area opened in the Exalted Plains, via an Operation. That's all I'm going to say in regards to that (I don't believe that's a spoiler; I mean, it was basically just a dungeon) beyond the fact that I wanted to kill my teammates because they kept running over to me and being huge pain in the you-know-what.

I tried Tactical Camera, but I couldn't make the activate the torches/levers with it.

Just some tweaks here and there Bioware. Just some tweaks here and there...

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Here's how it works in my game.

 

Click HOLD - move 2 steps - all follow me.

 

Make Varric active - click hold - switch back to main  -Varric stays others follow me.

 

Make Solas Active - click hold - now Varric and Solas stay.

 

Make Blackwall Active, click hold - okay he stays too now as long as I don't move my inquisitor.

 

Make inquisitor active and, I get ran over by all of them again.

[Swordfishtrombone]

Yes, this needs to be reverted to the way it was done before - it wasn't broken, and they "fixed" it. It was so much easier when you could just toggle on "hold", and then you could take control of any character and move them around, while the others stayed put where you left them. Then just toggle the hold off, once you wanted to revert to them following you.

 

It was SO easy, and convenient. And it worked.

 

In the one puzzle that an earlier poster alluded to, where having your chars hold position is a must, I did manage it, but through much frustration, using the clunky tactical cam. There you can position chars by clicking where you want them to go, and then clicking on that spot again to make them hold. It's a process prone to misclicks and more than once I had a character run up to me as I'd messed it up or forgotten to double click. Plus I couldn't zoom out enough, since this was indoors, and had real difficulty seeing what my actions resulted in, to figure out the puzzle.

 

All in all, a very frustrating task, made frustrating not by the difficulty of the puzzle, but the combination of a clunky tactical view who's use was necessitated by the needlessly complicated and unreliable "hold" mechanism.

[NakedEmperor]

Actually hold position has never worked right in any of the DA games.  Your party would always follow you once you got a certain distance ahead of them.  I don't think they will ever change this because most of their encounters are designed around the premise that your party will run in and be surrounded.  It's a sloppy way of making fights more difficult.  Anything that prevents you from being surrounded reveals that most of the fights are a cakewalk so the game actively fights you to push you into getting surrounded as evidenced by:

 

1. Party members ignoring hold command and always following you after a certain distance in all three games.

2. Enemies not spawning until you enter a room in DAO and DA2 (especially DA2) and the door locking behind you.

3. Enemies not following you beyond a certain zone in DAI; you can't lure them into ambushes.

4. Trash mobs spawning in waves on top of you from all directions in DA2. 

5. Party members actively ignoring hold position command in DAI unless you constantly spam it. 

 

I am sure I can come up with some more, but those are the most obvious ones.  The bottom line is that the game isn't designed with you giving commands to your companions in mind.  It's designed with the premise that you will run in no holds barred to become surrounded and let the AI handle your companions.  

 

Most encounters are designed like this: Player runs in. Player gets surrounded.  Fight is hard because player takes damage from all sides.  This requires minimal effort in enemy AI or battlefield set up.

 

Yeah but the game isn't hard anyway. I played all the games on hard difficulty and the only one that gave any challenge on hard was DA:O in the first playthrough. (the second playthrough I had manaclash which made the game ridiculously easy.)

 

I just unleash my fighters and then me and Varric stand in the back doing our things

[Sajuro]

Remember when the companions didn't just use up every talent in 5 seconds and screw over your tactics. Fun times.

I don't.

Maybe not every five seconds, but damn if Anders didn't love to fire off cone of cold at random

[Swordfishtrombone]

I don't.

Maybe not every five seconds, but damn if Anders didn't love to fire off cone of cold at random

 

That's completely controllable by tactics settings in DA2. I actually had a very smoothly running team in DA2; the squishy chars kept out of trouble and defended themselves when attacked, all chars capitalized on combo attacks automatically, without my intervention, and mostly I only intervened to micromanage something in the toughest fights.

 

In the previous games, especially if you had mods that added tactics options, you could do this, and get a well functioning companion AI with a little forethought and experimentation. It's a pity that such detailed tactics customization is not available in Inquisition. I was hoping for MORE tactics customization options, and was quite dismayed to find how pared down the tactics options were in this game.

 

It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but some design choices I really don't understand.

[hwlrmnky]

I miss being able to give a single order to be followed by three members of my party.

[ThirteenthJester13]

It's easy to get nostalgic.

Everything was not perfect.

 

Baldur's Gate players, do you remember how your party members would jam in doorways and then try to find a long way round, attracting aggro as they went and dying half way across the map?

 

One thing DAI has done well is your party not getting stuck in doorways.

I can't think of a single blockage.

 

Other issues I have to put at the door of moving to Frostbite 3.

I'm guessing that engine was a lot less compatible for Dragon Age than we thought. 

 

Now that we are on Frostbite 3, I look forward to it being finessed.

Thank you for noticing that Frostbite was not the ideal engine, The Unreal Engine worked Well for Arkham City and it was a heavily detailed urban sprawl. I cant really say how much bigger the bggest area of DAI is than Arkham City but it wouldn't be y much. Plus Unreal just looks amazig and the lighting is perfect withut being too dark in dim areas. Maybe im waaay of but it just seems weird to go with an engine that was originally developed for First Person Shooter ad environment destruction in a rpg.

[ThirteenthJester13]

That's completely controllable by tactics settings in DA2. I actually had a very smoothly running team in DA2; the squishy chars kept out of trouble and defended themselves when attacked, all chars capitalized on combo attacks automatically, without my intervention, and mostly I only intervened to micromanage something in the toughest fights.

 

In the previous games, especially if you had mods that added tactics options, you could do this, and get a well functioning companion AI with a little forethought and experimentation. It's a pity that such detailed tactics customization is not available in Inquisition. I was hoping for MORE tactics customization options, and was quite dismayed to find how pared down the tactics options were in this game.

 

It's a great game, don't get me wrong, but some design choices I really don't understand.

Especially having mounts when either deciding to make arty disappear or just couldn't have entire party ride a horse or perhaps Dissapear when you ride full speead and reappear when you slow down. Plus yu get this awesome armored Hore and you cnat attack from it. WEAK. Also for melee it would of been better to have L1 serve as a parry, counter attack button and leave the circle menu in the tactical cam having it turn transparent when not using and having it respond to the pad and not the analogs.) or more than just one basic attack. I lie having a basic attack and strong attack. Also i'd like to of been able to attack if i jumped in the air  or did a specific move coming up from a combat roll and eveytime an enemy is killed then you'd actually see them decapitatd or ran through, dismembered etc instead of just runnin out of health and dying.And a photo mode. Love that stuff

[shama]

Ummm hold position works just like it used to.......

 

Ummm no. No it doesn't.

 

DA:O

- Toggle hold/follow to make your team not move on their own

- switch to 1st character, move them to where you want them

- switch to 2nd character, move them to where you want them

- switch to 3rd character, move them to where you want them

- switch to 4th character, move them to where you want them

- switch back to 1st character to initiate your cunning plan

 

DA:I

- Click the 'hold' button to make your team not move on their own

- switch to 1st character, move them to where you want them

- click 'hold' again, because now you've moved that character they return to autonomous movement

- switch to 2nd character, move them to where you want them

- click 'hold' again, because now you've moved that character they return to autonomous movement

- switch to 3rd character, move them to where you want them

- click 'hold' again, because now you've moved that character they return to autonomous movement

- switch to 4th character, move them to where you want them

- click 'hold' again, because now you've moved that character they return to autonomous movement

- switch back to 1st character to initiate your cunning plan

 

DA:O was a toggle - if it was toggled to 'hold' then NO-ONE MOVED ON THEIR OWN. Simples. They were now mere puppets and you could switch between them, move them manually, perform actions and they'd still not resume autonomous movement.

 

In DA:I it isn't a toggle, and as soon as you manually move a character they think this means they can autonomously move all on their own.

 

This is very different.

[Addai]

It works a lot better when the command is given on Tac-Cam.

 

 

No. In Tac Cam they hold position without problems even without line of sight. There's even a video that proves it in the combat section.

The only way the Hold Position is override in Tac Cam is if you assign an order (as attack or move). If you use Hold Position and let the AI behave naturally it works flawlessly. You can either switch to normal cam and the Hold order is carried without problems.

The fact is: 90% of the people that complain don't really know how to do things and yet they complain. Just looking around in the various threads and you have a lot of proofs of this. The most absurd and blatantly false statements come from those that hate the game. Just a minute ago I was in a thread where a guy hated the game greatly and he opened with "Bioware didn't either put the possibility of having a behind the shoulder cam in tactical mode". Oh well... probably the guy didn't either try to move the mouse around in tac cam it seems, yet he had no problems complaining about it.

Tac cam is utterly broken with MKB. This advice doesn't solve anything.

[Eelectrica]

doing a nightmare run now.

Activate Tac Cam, position Sera to get full use of Long shot.. very short time later... why is Sera now in the midst of combat?  Well at least she has the good sense to be still near Solas who is now also in the middle of the fight. *SIGH* and back to camp we go to get more potions...

[Firky]

It also depends on the skills you alow them to use. I've seen terrible results with Blackwall and his "Charging Bull" skill.

I think this is bugged for me. I activated charging bull with Blackwall during a battle in the hinterlands and he discovered 3 new areas.

As to hold position, I play almost exclusively in tactical view and have all behaviours turned off and right click to hold position. I wish I knew if I was doing something wrong - I think I am spreading them out too much, but they keep either running to the character, or teleporting. Drives me bananas.

PS. I really don't know how many people play like me, with all behaviours off, spread out and micromanaging every character, on nightmare, but the way I'm playing is revealing all sorts of weird stuff. I played DAO and DA2 like this but I'm starting to think I'm a dinosaur, or at least this really isn't the way DAI was intended to be played; that I've strayed way too far way from what they expected players to do.

[shama]

I think this is bugged for me. I activated charging bull with Blackwall during a battle in the hinterlands and he discovered 3 new areas.

As to hold position, I play almost exclusively in tactical view and have all behaviours turned off and right click to hold position. I wish I knew if I was doing something wrong - I think I am spreading them out too much, but they keep either running to the character, or teleporting. Drives me bananas.

PS. I really don't know how many people play like me, with all behaviours off, spread out and micromanaging every character, on nightmare, but the way I'm playing is revealing all sorts of weird stuff. I played DAO and DA2 like this but I'm starting to think I'm a dinosaur, or at least this really isn't the way DAI was intended to be played; that I've strayed way too far way from what they expected players to do.

 

Welcome to the dinosaur club! I, like you, can only assume that the way I hoped to play DA:I is not the way we're supposed to play - despite this being perfectly valid for DA:O.

 

My example, somewhere else on these forums of:

- moving to a strategic position

- putting everyone on hold, manually moving a rogue to behind a kill zone

- laying a trap

- switching every melee character to their second load-out of a bow

- opening fire from range, tactically targeting their ranged characters

- enemy closes the distance and springs my traps

- everyone would switch back to melee and now allowed to move freely

... is just not really possible anymore. Characters no longer have two load-outs, and toggling hold/stay is an exercise in frustration and patience.

 

The alternative way to play is much simpler, much less frustrating and seems to be the expected manner of play:

- let all your characters just attack when and how they like

 

Now the major tactics seem to revolve around how not to get screwed by the AI, for example:

- disable charging bull, because your tank will charge across the map and leave your team to get attacked

- if you've got FF on then disable firewall and other AoE effects because your team will run into/through it

- if you've got ranged characters then you better manually take control of them every 10secs or so because they will have run into melee range

- set up some complicated follow behaviours (like following themselves) just to work around the way targeting works

- don't worry about hurting those poor little fennecs, because as soon as you've killed your targeted enemy your mage/archer will start shooting it anyway because you have to hold down an attack button at all times. There's no such thing as 100% targeted actions: you have to hold a button to attack and the chances of you releasing that button the moment your intended target dies are quite slim.

[Artagal]

DA:O was a toggle - if it was toggled to 'hold' then NO-ONE MOVED ON THEIR OWN. Simples. They were now mere puppets and you could switch between them, move them manually, perform actions and they'd still not resume autonomous movement.

 

In DA:I it isn't a toggle, and as soon as you manually move a character they think this means they can autonomously move all on their own.

 

This is very different.

 

Exactly. The only way for your characters to follow the "Hold" order is to let the AI play them entirely without giving them any other order... Which is problematic because the AI sucks ! This should indeed have been a toogle to work properly.

 

Of course, you can still make it work with A LOT of micro-management, but it's a bit tedious.

[Dulas]

Clicking hold never worked for me. However, they do stay where I tell them to stay if I use tactical camera and double click on a spot I want them to hold (this must be done individually). The assigned companion defends nearby area but will not chase after enemies that get out of spells and abilities' range. No idea what this function is called within the game itself, nor do I remember if manual casting or fighting from the spot enables moving again. I am playing on PC.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Clicking hold never worked for me. However, they do stay where I tell them to stay if I use tactical camera and double click on a spot I want them to hold (this must be done individually). The assigned companion defends nearby area but will not chase after enemies that get out of spells and abilities' range. No idea what this function is called within the game itself, nor do I remember if manual casting or fighting from the spot enables moving again. I am playing on PC.

 

I haven't figured out how to tell them to defend an area. how do you do this?

 

In my experience the problem is that the AI doesn't remember commands issued in action mode. I tell Sera to do Long shot, and switch to another character. She then forgets that command and does whatever she feels like. It seems to be the same with holding.

 

They need to scrap this idea of action mode vs tactical and just make the commands work regardless of mode.

[Elhanan]

Tac cam is utterly broken with MKB. This advice doesn't solve anything.

Re-mapping the controls before gameplay, and some practice in the Tutorial areas has allowed Tac-Cam to work well for me now for ca. 400 hrs. Believe there is also a toggle in Options/ Gameplay to allow for Wheel control; recommended.

[Elhanan]

I haven't figured out how to tell them to defend an area. how do you do this?
 
In my experience the problem is that the AI doesn't remember commands issued in action mode. I tell Sera to do Long shot, and switch to another character. She then forgets that command and does whatever she feels like. It seems to be the same with holding.
 
They need to scrap this idea of action mode vs tactical and just make the commands work regardless of mode.

While in Tac-Cam, click on another NPC position; should state Defend.