128 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Fair enough. I personally don't find it that enjoyable to plan as it occurs. I'd rather let things run their course and intervene only when absolutely necessary, the risk of a party wipe or something. I can if I have to, I just prefer not to. Passive to a fault, some might say.

I certainly can't keep track of what they're all doing either, but because the situation is suboptimal I don't care (if it provides any insight, I'm a person who's gone without eating a meal if there wasn't something I liked) as long as it isn't crippling the gameplay.

And I plan ahead obsessively. I would ensure that the place I was going had something I would want before going there. Usually two items, so I'll have a backup if they've run out of the first.

[Brogan]

What makes you think they're concerned about PC controls?

 

"... After Patch 2 goes out, our next priority is to improve the PC mouse/keyboard controls further."

 

 

I don't think "workaround" is the right concept there. Sylvius isn't avoiding the action cam because the action cam has problems, he's avoiding the action cam because he doesn't like action. It's like how I'm not working around hypothetical MP deficiencies by never playing MP, I'm just not playing MP because I'm not interested in MP.

 

Heh, ok, so you also don't seem to be grasping the gist of it yet...  top of that page:

What he talked about sounded very much like the pre-discussions of a large scale overhaul of this change from having a Tac Cam separate from the Action Cam......

 

Sylvius, I understand exactly what you are saying and I see that you have figured out a way to make use of the features they have given us to play in a style you like.  I will most likely play in a very similar, if not an identical one.  However, if you read Allan's words from that conversation, it was clear they were very likely looking at the possibilities of changing some of these dynamics you are making use of so everything is not relegated to either Action or Tac Camera gameplay.

 

edit: ..  an to bring it back on topic, Auto Attack might be one of them.

[AlanC9]

@ Brogan: I read that. I just thought you jumped to the wrong conclusion. Anyway, I don't see how adding a movement mode Sylvius likes to a camera mode he doesn't like will mean much of anything.

I'm still a bit unsure why playing DAI like Skyrim is such a horrible thing, myself.

[Razir-Samus]

@ Brogan: I read that. I just thought you jumped to the wrong conclusion. Anyway, I don't see how adding a movement mode Sylvius likes to a camera mode he doesn't like will mean much of anything.

I'm still a bit unsure why playing DAI like Skyrim is such a horrible thing, myself.

because there are those of us that preferred how the previous 2.5 games played

[Brogan]

I didn't know that at all.

 

I'm glad I haven't played the game since November.

 

I'm glad I haven't even started the game yet.

[In Exile]

I really like how the Tac Cam works with KBM. I think Action Mode is horrendous, and I really only use it when I need to jump.

If anything should have been console only, I'd say it should be Action Mode. Because I'm not willing to give up the free-roaming camera. It's invaluable for scouting ahead, particularly around corners when indoors.

Action mode is necessary to make certain classes work. Like a DW rogue or a KE.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Action mode is necessary to make certain classes work. Like a DW rogue or a KE.

To maximize their performance, perhaps.

There's a difference between a functional standard and an optimal standard. I find a DW Rogue works fairly well. I haven't tried KE (nor do I expect I will).

[Sylvius the Mad]

Playing DA I like Skyrim is suboptimal because DA I is not Skyrim.

What does it even mean to play it "like Skyrim"? There are a great many ways to play Skyrim.

[fchopin]

I'm glad I haven't even started the game yet.

The game plays fine if you play a ranged character.
It's only a problem if you play a melee character unless you forget about the team and play the game as if you are fighting alone without a team.

You should play the game as a ranged character as it works fine apart for the click to move for other things.

[Aurok]

I get the impression the Tactical and M&K UI in general is probably a long way from where they really wanted it to be. A lot of it smacks of just running out of time more than them genuinely thinking this was the best way for the game to work.

 

Take the tac cam hopping around all over the place for instance. Mike Laidlaw was clearly under the impression it wasn't going to ship like that but it still did for whatever reason. There are a bunch of little avoidable inconveniences like that which for me added up to enough to drag the whole experience down.

[Brogan]

 Remember, this game got a year and a month long delay. If they ran out of time, they didn't plan well at all.

 

In regards to the pc version, there isn't any doubt that is the case.  Otherwise they wouldn't have made so much of it in that blog entry.

[Sylvius the Mad]

As an action game, for the purposes of this thread.

You don't play DA like Skyrim, because it's not possible to play Skyrim the way you play DA. I don't play DA the way I play Skyrim, because DA doesn't support the style of gameplay I prefer (stealth).

Actually, given the low difficulty of DAI, and the mods I use in Skyrim, I play the games quite similarly.

If I need to, I'll happily control the whole party (and when I do, it's Tac Cam 100% of the time), but DAI's combat is so easy (I'm on Hard) that there's rarely any need. So it plays a lot like Skyrim.

What gives you that impression? And where did Laidlaw indicate that it wouldn't ship like that?

Remember, this game got a year and a month long delay. If they ran out of time, they didn't plan well at all.

That the behaviour of the camera is inconsistent on this point suggests that this behaviour wasn't intended. Sometimes the camera jumps to the new character, but sometimes it doesn't. I haven't yet figured out what controls that.

But note the ground circles. Mike and Cameron told us in the first KBM demo video that we could turn them off, or make them visible all the time (by default, they're only visible in Tac Cam). But we can't. And as further evidence that they did intend that feature, the game actually tells you (on one of the loading screens) in what menu to find that setting. But it's not there.

There are plenty of things they wanted to add but didn't manage to.

I blame the engine. The engine does not seem compatible with full-party tactical control, and the workaround they needed to use to get it to work broke a whole bunch of features, which I suspect is why the Action Mode and Tactical Mode are so thoroughly disconnected.

[Chiramu]

Yep, for some auto-attack is boring and hinders immersion for other no auto-attack is boring and hinders immersion. Which is probably why Bioware keeps flip flopping on the issue. They should add a setting toggle in the menu and everybody would be happy.

 

If they made a game that was fun to play there wouldn't be an issue. I think none of the developers really looked at how the game handled when you actually played and instead looked at the graphics and story too much. 

 

Story and graphics mean nothing if the game handles like shite.

[Gambit458]

no it's not... autoattack was better because you'd always get pushed into the correct range, as opposed to this quasi-hack n slash attack method where even if your weapon visibly hits a mob (be it basic attack or an ability), you can miss it entirely because of how the hits register at different ranges

 

plus you could leave your char and his tactics to slog it out without worrying about it being deadweight and just stop acting altogether

Auto-attack isn't without flaws. Nothing got more tedious than watching you guy chase someone because they missed with the auto attack so they have to reposition theirself to get back in that "range." I didn't find auto-attack very useful for rogues either. I find it easier to get them into backstabbing positions when the combat is controlled compared to auto where they'll be getting backstabs as long as the opponent isn't moving

[TUHD]

There are two modes of play. Action Mode and Tactical Mode. Tactical Mode has auto-attack. It also have move-to-point commands.

Action Mode involves doing things in real time (including movement, using driving controls). Tactical Mode involves giving orders which are carried out by the characters.

Since I oppose any and all action content, I play every encounter in Tactical Mode, which has auto-attack. It also has a free-roaming camera, which is something I wanted in DAO and DA2, as well.

 

*groan* In other words, auto-attack is there but they'll just need to implement it in action mode too then.

[Sylvius the Mad]

*groan* In other words, auto-attack is there but they'll just need to implement it in action mode too then.

To what end? Why is anyone in Action Mode if he wants auto-attack? What is the feature of Action Mode that compels people to use it?

I honestly don't understand why people aren't just using the Tac Cam.

[Razir-Samus]

To what end? Why is anyone in Action Mode if he wants auto-attack? What is the feature of Action Mode that compels people to use it?

I honestly don't understand why people aren't just using the Tac Cam.

because it feels tacked on and quite frankly incredibly awkward to use, compared to the methods of the previous games

[TUHD]

To what end? Why is anyone in Action Mode if he wants auto-attack? What is the feature of Action Mode that compels people to use it?

I honestly don't understand why people aren't just using the Tac Cam.

 

Some people like to use Action cam a bit mixed with Tac Cam.

Also, for the live of me with the current sad state of the Tac Cam how it works, I'm not going to touch it with a one-foot pole atm. The way to give orders is total **** (having to move up and down again each time from the character to your intended target instead of staying in the area, the limit remembering of actions, the pathetic camera without mods, etc).

I played DA:O and DA2 with over-the-shoulder perspective, with zooming out to birdseye view and pausing sometimes to correct some actions if my programmed tactics didn't entirely line up with what I intended in some rare situations.

 

In DA:O and DA2 I could trust my character as a melee char to keep on following their target - time that I could use to make cursory glances regarding the positioning of the rest of my team.

In DA:I, I'm forced to hold buttons to do follow and attack. WTF? At the same time I must hope the less-then-basic tactics the companions have programmed in work a bit in my favour and they don't do anything stupid. 99% of the time they're stupid though and work against me. Together with the necessary hitting of the keys for the skills (since regular attack takes an yawning amount of time to kill something) I'm out of luck often to get things going the way I want. Yes, I can solve it through micromanaging. But I absolutely hate and despise micromanaging.

[Akka le Vil]

Yep, for some auto-attack is boring and hinders immersion for other no auto-attack is boring and hinders immersion. Which is probably why Bioware keeps flip flopping on the issue. They should add a setting toggle in the menu and everybody would be happy.

 

If people consider that holding mindlessly a button is "not boring", then I'm worried about how they keep themselves amused.

It would be entirely different if the combat system required some timing and skill (blocking attack when they are about to land on the character, launching attack when guards are down, etc.), but as of now it's just annoying for nothing.