18 réponses à ce sujet

[sethroskull79]

So I am about 30 hours in and just realized that there is traditional Heal spell option.  I haven't decided yet who to side with yet so it's still early in the game for me.  Does this become an issue when fighting harder battles?  8 healing potions isn't really all that much for a party.  Does Barrier and Guard make up for this?  I tried to fight the dragon in the Hinterlands (92,000 health) and got slaughtered.  I am scared I won't be able to hold my own with no healing magic.

[ashwind]

In this game, Guard and Barrier can more than make up for healing spells. Actually healing potions is mainly needed for the first part of the game. Later on, you dont really rely on them if you manage guard and barrier well.

[sethroskull79]

I hope so.  Thanks.

[Molohk]

There's healing potions, but theres additional items such as regen potions (heal over time), and healing grenades (AoE healing). Even so, you won't miss healing abilities once you get the hang of it. I only carry regen potions on my tank (which I rarely use), and I don't even bother with healing grenades anymore.

[tris1]

To be truthful it's not needed as healing potions guard and barrier give you enough and you can resurrect your team while in combat. There should be a healing Mage class though a specialised skill tree

[Rizilliant]

It really sucks that the game was decided to be played for us.. I never felt "obligated" to bring Wynne, but would if i felt like it.. Now, in DA:I, i cannot leave without Solas, and am also playing a Lightning mage, which ill pick poinjts into Spir just for the damnbarrier.. And only 8 potions? How was this a better idea than more options? This is terrible. I used to be able to play whatever group makeup i wanted, i feel forced to play a traditioinal setup now, mroe than ever.. And man, am i sick of running back to Haven.. Maybe i shouldnt have started on Hard, but i thought my history with the fanchise would makeup for not having played the specific title, but sometimes 1 fight takes out all 8 potions.. and i have all my guys carrying 3 p[otions each.. Potion, Regen, and maybe a grenade...

 

And where did all the magic go? Theres were 4 or 5 kinds of magic, and 3 of them are gone! 1 was turneed ddinto 3 for this game, and still is missing earth element.. The entire DA:I mage tree can be summed up with 1 Primal tree from Origins.. 50hrs in, and im extremely bored.. Thats a problem.. I couldve sworn they sold this game as the best from Origins, and DA2 in one..I feel NONE of Origins in this.. Tactical Cam being a huge one! Aforementioned being a close 2nd.. 

 

Edit: The rebelling mages are only set to what, a decade after Da2? how did all those mages forget Entropy, Primal, Creation, Spirit,etc? Warriors cant dual wield? Rogues cant swap to dagger when bombarded in melee range, or in caves where it makes less sense to use a bow...Wheres the "Role-Play"?

[Geth Supremacy]

The amount of heal on kill and heal on hit items and accessories make it a moot point gameplay wise IMO.

 

Sure is a kick in the teeth to mages though

[Rizilliant]

im sure its because i havent mastered the barriers, and cant igure out why Bull doesnt want to build the Guard like Black or Cass, but im still wanting the option. I want to play my way.. And not like im asking for something from another game.. This is how ive ALWAYS played "Dragon Age"! Its just mind boggling to me.. Its been touted as one of, if not the best RPG, and they change the basics.. Id gladly give back that unnecessary Multiplayer garbage for my creation magic.. This potion/barrier **** is for the birds! But the OPTION, to p[llay any of those ways it where DA shined previously.. I guess im just here venting my dissappointment/approval in Bioware.. Theyv hopped on the casual train like Blizzard, like Bethesda.. Alienating their fansbase in turn for multitude of everyone who could care less who made the game.. As long as some buoght and payed for game "Informer" told them its a 9.0/10.. cough, cough...

[Iakus]

It really sucks that the game was decided to be played for us.. I never felt "obligated" to bring Wynne, but would if i felt like it.. Now, in DA:I, i cannot leave without Solas, and am also playing a Lightning mage, which ill pick poinjts into Spir just for the damnbarrier.. And only 8 potions? How was this a better idea than more options? This is terrible. I used to be able to play whatever group makeup i wanted, i feel forced to play a traditioinal setup now, mroe than ever.. And man, am i sick of running back to Haven.. Maybe i shouldnt have started on Hard, but i thought my history with the fanchise would makeup for not having played the specific title, but sometimes 1 fight takes out all 8 potions.. and i have all my guys carrying 3 p[otions each.. Potion, Regen, and maybe a grenade...

 

And where did all the magic go? Theres were 4 or 5 kinds of magic, and 3 of them are gone! 1 was turneed ddinto 3 for this game, and still is missing earth element.. The entire DA:I mage tree can be summed up with 1 Primal tree from Origins.. 50hrs in, and im extremely bored.. Thats a problem.. I couldve sworn they sold this game as the best from Origins, and DA2 in one..I feel NONE of Origins in this.. Tactical Cam being a huge one! Aforementioned being a close 2nd.. 

 

Edit: The rebelling mages are only set to what, a decade after Da2? how did all those mages forget Entropy, Primal, Creation, Spirit,etc? Warriors cant dual wield? Rogues cant swap to dagger when bombarded in melee range, or in caves where it makes less sense to use a bow...Wheres the "Role-Play"?

Inclined to agree.  The new healing mechanic makes trinity play even more vital than before.  Now you need a balanced party to get anywhere.  You must have a warrior tanking (or I suppose a Knight Enchanter, until they nerf that) and a mage with at least a basic barrier or you'll be going through healing potion by the barrel.  I suppose that makes fights easy to balance, but by enforcing such rigid playstyles, I question if it's worth it.

 

And magic has really been dumbed down.  Now the schools are Spirit Barrier and "Kill stuff with one of three elements"

 

And don't even get me on about "Tactical Mode"  It's little more than a glorified pause button

[StrangeStrategy]

It really sucks that the game was decided to be played for us.. I never felt "obligated" to bring Wynne, but would if i felt like it.. Now, in DA:I, i cannot leave without Solas, and am also playing a Lightning mage, which ill pick poinjts into Spir just for the damnbarrier.. And only 8 potions? How was this a better idea than more options? This is terrible. I used to be able to play whatever group makeup i wanted, i feel forced to play a traditioinal setup now, mroe than ever.. And man, am i sick of running back to Haven.. Maybe i shouldnt have started on Hard, but i thought my history with the fanchise would makeup for not having played the specific title, but sometimes 1 fight takes out all 8 potions.. and i have all my guys carrying 3 p[otions each.. Potion, Regen, and maybe a grenade...

 

And where did all the magic go? Theres were 4 or 5 kinds of magic, and 3 of them are gone! 1 was turneed ddinto 3 for this game, and still is missing earth element.. The entire DA:I mage tree can be summed up with 1 Primal tree from Origins.. 50hrs in, and im extremely bored.. Thats a problem.. I couldve sworn they sold this game as the best from Origins, and DA2 in one..I feel NONE of Origins in this.. Tactical Cam being a huge one! Aforementioned being a close 2nd.. 

 

Edit: The rebelling mages are only set to what, a decade after Da2? how did all those mages forget Entropy, Primal, Creation, Spirit,etc? Warriors cant dual wield? Rogues cant swap to dagger when bombarded in melee range, or in caves where it makes less sense to use a bow...Wheres the "Role-Play"?

You were definitely obligated to bring a dedicated healer in DAO. No doubt about that. Unless you were so late in the game you had a broken build, brings a dedicated healer or spamming healing potions or both was necessary. Or maybe you played on easy.

Its one ability point. You can upgrade the potions to 12. You can get masterworks that generate guard for any class. You can bring extra potions like Healing Mist. I'm betting 20 Gold you haven't even tried to play a "non-traditional" group, you're just whining because you can't handle change... Honestly, I've seen people succeed with an all rogue party. Or with Iron Bull as a 2-H Tank.

 

Most of the spells were given extra utility, and Staff DPS was increased. Look the DAO spells: Arcane Bolt and Lightning Bolt are the same. The Lightning Cone and the Fire Cone are basically the same. Walking Bomb and Virulent Walking bomb are the same. It seems like there were plenty of spells, but they were either identical or only had minor differences. Also, specializations and passives.

 

And for your last point: Play a DW Rogue with Guard On-Hit. There is your DW Warrior... same thing and more. And actually, you can switch your weapons out if you wanted to for some reason. Its not necessary, because archers no longer need a "Melee Archer" talent to fire while under attack. Take off the nostalgia goggles.
 

[Poisd2Strike]

im sure its because i havent mastered the barriers, and cant igure out why Bull doesnt want to build the Guard like Black or Cass, but im still wanting the option. I want to play my way.. And not like im asking for something from another game.. This is how ive ALWAYS played "Dragon Age"! Its just mind boggling to me.. Its been touted as one of, if not the best RPG, and they change the basics.. Id gladly give back that unnecessary Multiplayer garbage for my creation magic.. This potion/barrier **** is for the birds! But the OPTION, to p[llay any of those ways it where DA shined previously.. I guess im just here venting my dissappointment/approval in Bioware.. Theyv hopped on the casual train like Blizzard, like Bethesda.. Alienating their fansbase in turn for multitude of everyone who could care less who made the game.. As long as some buoght and payed for game "Informer" told them its a 9.0/10.. cough, cough...

 

If you want Iron Bull to build guard more effectively, you should probably respec him to be 1 hand + shield (like Cassandra and Blackwall, by default).  Unfortunately, that sort of goes against the "feel" of the character.  An alternate solution would be to craft armor or a weapon that builds guard on hit, and have Iron Bull equip that item.

[Rizilliant]

You were definitely obligated to bring a dedicated healer in DAO. No doubt about that. Unless you were so late in the game you had a broken build, brings a dedicated healer or spamming healing potions or both was necessary. Or maybe you played on easy.

Its one ability point. You can upgrade the potions to 12. You can get masterworks that generate guard for any class. You can bring extra potions like Healing Mist. I'm betting 20 Gold you haven't even tried to play a "non-traditional" group, you're just whining because you can't handle change.

 

Most of the spells were given extra utility, and Staff DPS was increased. Look the DAO spells: Arcane Bolt and Lightning Bolt are the same. The Lightning Cone and the Fire Cone are basically the same. Walking Bomb and Virulent Walking bomb are the same. It seems like there were plenty of spells, but they were either identical or only had minor differences. Also, specializations and passives.

 

And for your last point: Play a DW Rogue with Guard On-Hit. There is your DW Warrior... same thing and more. And actually, you can switch your weapons out if you wanted to for some reason. Its not necessary, because archers no longer need a "Melee Archer" talent to fire while under attack. Take off the nostalgia goggles.
 

Arcane bolt did mroe dmg vs mages, and lightning has its own effect.. And no, i played all the way to nightmare.. My DAO playthroughs are more than a dozen.. Ive played several instances with no dedicated healer.. Wynne was the only haler i used.. Do not sit thee, and give bad information, and then assume everyone played as badly at it as you!

[Gaz83]

Guard and Barrier - along with Life Drain and Guard-On-Hit equipment - make healing spells kind of redundant. 

 

Once you get past level ten or so, you will rarely need to use a potion outside of boss/dragon battles. 

 

Get to a really high level and you start to wish that you could swap out the healing potion for another grenade or tonic. 

[Gaz83]

If you want Iron Bull to build guard more effectively, you should probably respec him to be 1 hand + shield (like Cassandra and Blackwall, by default).  

 

 

I thought so too, and used to re-spec him as a sword/shield user. But it felt wrong. Thankfully, it isn't needed. 

 

Give him a few passives out of the sword/shield tree - you can spare the ability points, as most two handed skills are poor - and make both war cry and block-and-slash preferred skills. With that, he tends to keep his guard up pretty well. 

 

Throw in a guard-on-hit masterwork and he's as close to a tank as a two hander can get. 

[teks]

Vanguard has more then enough guard skills for bull. Block and slash also gives guard and is highly recommended. Set the +guard skills to perferred.

 

Healing sucks.

It ruins any tension there would be in the longer fights. There is no feeling of being warn down, no desperate strategies or unorthodox tactics brought up from a shortage of potions in a long fight. There is no punishment for performing poorly in a fight.

Pen and Paper dungeons and dragons always had terrible healing options, and no one complains about that. The whole healing spell spam spurred from MMORPGs, and their transition into the standard RPG genre was a blight we should rejoice being rid of.

[DragonOfWhiteThunder]

Pen and Paper dungeons and dragons always had terrible healing options, and no one complains about that.

 

That's patently false - people have been complaining about how clerics are forced to use their limited spells on healing and how natural healing is too slow to play without a cleric since the class was named "priest." Furthermore, healing has always been rather plentiful - in 1st and 2nd edition, a single Cure Wounds spell of appropriate level would actually mostly restore a wounded character's HP on average. In 3rd, wands of Cure Light Wounds were so cheap that you could just pick up a handful of those and healed to full after every fight (or use Lesser Vigor, if it's available). In 4th, every class had the means to self-heal through healing surges. And in 5th, the attrition metagame is almost entirely removed by having HP fully restored at the end of a long rest.

[teks]

Those people don't know how to play, spoiled by the previously mentioned MMORPGs. It was my fault for not specifying what versions I was referring to. I like to believe everything after 3.5 never existed.n I've seen the 4th edition and was dissappointed to see how they implimented so many of these MMORPG mechanics into the game. 4th edition is not d&d. Its pen and paper WoW. Most the old school fans switched to pathfinder or just never upgraded. I didn't know they made a 5th, but it sounds horrible. Truely they have lost touch with that roleplay means.

 

Onto your second point. Healing wasn't plentiful in the previous versions. Look at the healing potential of the heal spells vs. the damage spells. They are extremely inneffecient and on top of that they can only be casted a limited number of times. The wands are up to the disgretion of the DM, and most didn't just hand those out like candy. In those games the goal was to avoid getting hurt, and they wanted to make injuries a big deal. It was an excellent roleplay mechanic, because players felt mortal, and let them empathize with the character they were representing.

 

Games need consequences in order to hold meaning. If after every battle you start at full health then what aspect of hardships exist? where is the tension? "Oh I was stabbed through the kidney" no problem that can be healed instantly at no cost. How dramatic! That's as exciting as drywall. Everyone just wants their ego's stroked these days rather then challenge themselves. It seems any mechanic placed in a game that presents you as a mortal is frowned upon.

[Farangbaa]

You were definitely obligated to bring a dedicated healer in DAO. No doubt about that. Unless you were so late in the game you had a broken build, brings a dedicated healer or spamming healing potions or both was necessary. Or maybe you played on easy.

Its one ability point. You can upgrade the potions to 12. You can get masterworks that generate guard for any class. You can bring extra potions like Healing Mist. I'm betting 20 Gold you haven't even tried to play a "non-traditional" group, you're just whining because you can't handle change... Honestly, I've seen people succeed with an all rogue party. Or with Iron Bull as a 2-H Tank.

 

Most of the spells were given extra utility, and Staff DPS was increased. Look the DAO spells: Arcane Bolt and Lightning Bolt are the same. The Lightning Cone and the Fire Cone are basically the same. Walking Bomb and Virulent Walking bomb are the same. It seems like there were plenty of spells, but they were either identical or only had minor differences. Also, specializations and passives.

 

And for your last point: Play a DW Rogue with Guard On-Hit. There is your DW Warrior... same thing and more. And actually, you can switch your weapons out if you wanted to for some reason. Its not necessary, because archers no longer need a "Melee Archer" talent to fire while under attack. Take off the nostalgia goggles.
 

 

<--- Slaughtered dragons with Iron Bull as a two handed tank.

 

Healing is completely unnecessary in Inquisition, from a gameplay perspective.

 

Lore, though... 

 

From a lore perspective, healing spells were nonsense.