208 réponses à ce sujet

[o Ventus]

Yea yea, Miranda's full of sob, I'm aware. The point I'm making is Miranda's character revolves around her daddy issues and family problems, while Cassandra isn't really anything like that. Her story's about faith and determination, honor and service. Miranda and Cassandra really are nothing alike.

 

And yes, Miranda fights, but it's not really believable coming from her vs Cassandra. Don't care who you are, no one goes into battle and lives long looking like that, and being dressed like that. I know there's some term for it. Wai-fu I believe. Not waifu, but wai-fu, where people who have no business kicking ass do so anyway while looking like pornstars and ****... I find it rather insulting honestly to compare the likes of her to such a well done character like Cassandra.

 

Besides being your second, when they used to be the leader, the two really have nothing at all in common.

Except Miranda's family issues are only part of her story, in the exact same fashion that Cassandra's story isn't all about her sh*tty upbringing in Nevarra. Cassandra has the Seekers, Miranda has Cerberus. They both spent their entire adult lives (up until working with the PC) working for their respective groups, and both were shocked by what said groups had become by the point they left (The Seekers were little more than a strong-arm faction of not-templars led by Lambert, who was on the crazy train to batsh*t central station and was running them into the ground (and then Lucius took over, and he turns out to be no more sane than Lambert). Not to mention that the Seekers knew how to reverse the rite of Tranquility and kept that knowledge a secret forever. Miranda has Cerberus, who start out as a pro-human group but end up becoming Nazi Germany (In Space!).

 

You say they have nothing in common, which is patently-f**king-false. I'm giving you side by side comparisons, and you're going "yeah, no, you see, I don't like Miranda's clothes, so that makes her stupid and boring and insulting". I really, really shouldn't have to point out how so unbelievably retarded that is.

[Andrew Lucas]

"Daddy issues and trust problems" do come about when you're effectively a prisoner in your own home for a good 15 or 16 years of your life and are completely cut-off from contact from the outside world save for 1 person, your father is an egomaniacal tyrant, and the one person you've come to consider a friend sells you out to said tyrant, and when you consider that the sole reason for your existence is to continue the tyrant's ego-filled legacy, to the extent that you don't even have a mother and were made by cherry-picking traits from other people as if out of a catalog. If someone spends close to the first 20% of their life receiving no love or affection from ANYBODY, that wears on them and eventually breaks them to where they can't handle it anymore. Miranda has her upgrades over other people, but she's still just a human like everyone else (other than the dirty aliens). That's the entire point of her character arc in ME2 (I won't speak for 3, ME3 completely ruined and pooped on just about every ME2 character).

Also, what? Miranda is just as violent as Cassandra when she needs to be, only she uses a gun and her biotics instead of a sword and Seeker powers. She spent her entire adult life undertaking the most dangerous and technically demanding operations for Cerberus (by her own word), and led those operations to success.

I genuinely feel like I am literally the only person who actually took the time to listen to Miranda's dialogue, think about what she says, and find her interesting based on her merits.

Nuff said! Brilliant post.

[Colonelkillabee]

snip

I say they have nothing in common because I'm talking about their character and what they're like. The idea that two characters are similar because their backgrounds are somewhat (somewhat) to me is as shallow as their hair both being black.

 

Miranda is a smart ass that is sad over her perfection given to her from her controlling father, and used Cerberus to get away from him and make her own life.

 

Cassandra went with the Seekers because she wanted to be a Templar after her brother died, but was given that position instead, and found purpose in it. And because of her faith.

 

They both served an organization they believed in that ultimately didn't turn out to be what they thought, but what really matters is why they went to that organization and served in the first place, which isn't at all comparable, and that is what really matters to the core of their character.

 

Which is why I still stand by the statement that they have nothing in common. What's retarded is making such basic comparisons without looking deeper at who the character is, and deeming them similar when truly, they are not at all.

[o Ventus]

I say they have nothing in common because I'm talking about their character and what they're like. The idea that two characters are similar because their backgrounds are somewhat (somewhat) to me is as shallow as their hair both being black.

 

Miranda is a smart ass that is sad over her perfection given to her from her controlling father, and used Cerberus to get away from him and make her own life.

 

Cassandra went with the Seekers because she wanted to be a Templar after her brother died, but was given that position instead, and found purpose in it. And because of her faith.

 

They both served an organization they believed in that ultimately didn't turn out to be what they thought, but what really matters is why they went to that organization and served in the first place, which isn't at all comparable, and that is what really matters to the core of their character.

 

Which is why I still stand by the statement that they have nothing in common. What's retarded is making such basic comparisons without looking deeper at who the character is, and deeming them similar when truly, they are not at all.

 

Cassandra went to the Seekers because she had to (the Chantry made her go there, they wouldn't let her be a templar). She ultimately found herself liking her life as a Seeker until she found out how rotten they were.

 

Miranda went to Cerberus because she had to (they were the only group who could provide her protection from her father). She ultimately found herself liking her life in Cerberus until she found out how rotten they were.

 

I also like how you phrase Miranda's mini-bio there with negative bias while you effectively whitewash Cassandra's and make it sound way better. "Miranda is an upstart b**ch who is sad she's better than everyone else, while sweet darling Cassandra found faith and happiness!"

 

You're either ignoring everything I'm writing because you're dead-set in your opinion and nothing I say will change the way you think, or you're doing this on purpose to f**k with me. You vastly oversimplify Miranda's story while propping Cassandra's up on a gilded podium studded with diamonds, and you just say "yeah, no" to any and all comparisons I make, on top of of insulting Miranda's clothes (because nobody has ever made that point before, you're being really edgy by bringing that up as much as you have).

[Colonelkillabee]

snip

Yea, I have a bias against Miranda, most certainly, and I openly admit that. Never tried hiding it either. It doesn't change what I'm saying though.

 

To your next comparison, I already said that Cassandra was given the Seeker position when she wanted the templars instead. She indeed had to be a Seeker instead,

 

Miranda didn't have to go to Cerberus for the same reason. She had to go to Cerberus because she needed, in her mind, to run away. Cassandra wasn't running away from anything, she was running towards something. Seeking a purpose, while Miranda had one and wanted to seek her own purpose and run from the one her father gave her. Actually, I think Miranda has more in common with Dorian than Cassandra in that regard.

 

That is the key difference between Cassandra and Miranda in my mind and what separates these two as characters. Maybe if you'd drop the insults, you could see what I'm trying to say.

 

You know how bad guys always throw that "We're not so different, you and I" statement and it's always bs? That's how I see this. Their situations on the surface are similar, but really completely different when it comes down to it. I'm not ****** with you, I just disagree. Shocker.

 

Also, the clothing comparison goes deeper than you think. As Miranda said, her looks her strength, biotics, all of it is meant to give her an edge. Her duties and skillset aren't the same as Cassandra's. Cassandra obviously has no need to use pretty looks, because her primary purpose is military. Miranda's more akin to Leliana in this regard, as Leliana is a killer and leader that uses looks to her advantage for diplomacy and political gain and so on.

 

Cassandra is a warrior and dresses to be practical. She does have need to be diplomatic at times, but like Cullen, she does so from a position of strength, rather than trying to entice someone or make them like her. Miranda's division in Cerberus isn't military after all, even if she does kill. It's research, I believe. That's another key difference between the two and why I brought up clothing, even though it was strongly colored by my dislike for characters like this who are passed as deadly skilled fighters.

 

You can make all sorts of connections between characters, just like the one I made with Miranda and Dorian. Doesn't mean they're really alike at all. Dorian's certainly not a stand in for Miranda Lawson.

[Arlee]

IMO Cassandra's romance is miles better than Josie's. I might be biased though because I love Cass. Josie's romance is just way too saccharine and courtly for me though.

[TammieAZ]

Cassandra .

 

Josie's was too 1990's Disney for me. Very amateurish.  

I expected more from BioWare.

[Iakus]

The more I hear how Josie's romance is "sacharine" and "Disney" the more I want to try it. 

 

Given the definition of "Disney" seems to be increasingly "not tragic"

[Arlee]

The more I hear how Josie's romance is "sacharine" and "Disney" the more I want to try it. 

 

Given the definition of "Disney" seems to be increasingly "not tragic"

 

The best example I can think of is the little repeatable scene with Josie is you hold hands in the courtyard. If that sounds appealing to you, definitely go for it. To me it's incredibly meh.

[Basement Cat]

The best example I can think of is the little repeatable scene with Josie is you hold hands in the courtyard. If that sounds appealing to you, definitely go for it. To me it's incredibly meh.

Uh, there's definitely kissing going on there. And I'm pretty sure the Inquisitor's hands wander down.

[Gwydden]

Cassandra .

 

Josie's was too 1990's Disney for me. Very amateurish.  

I expected more from BioWare.

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing...

And yes, Miranda fights, but it's not really believable coming from her vs Cassandra. Don't care who you are, no one goes into battle and lives long looking like that, and being dressed like that. I know there's some term for it. Wai-fu I believe. Not waifu, but wai-fu, where people who have no business kicking ass do so anyway while looking like pornstars and ****... I find it rather insulting honestly to compare the likes of her to such a well done character like Cassandra.

Oh, right. I really don't know who came up with that kind of suit and thought it was good for combat. I mean, what kind of idiot...?

 

Oh.

[Colonelkillabee]

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing...

 

Oh, right. I really don't know who came up with that kind of suit and thought it was good for combat. I mean, what kind of idiot...?

 

Oh.

Lol I don't care about spiderman and superheroes in general. *shrug*

[Gwydden]

Lol I don't care about spiderman and superheroes in general. *shrug*

Not my point. Superheroes are usually, as their name subtly suggests, idealized superhumans. Ergo, giving them extremely revealing clothing (or very little clothing at all, as was the case with older examples like John Carter and Conan the Barbarian) was a way for them to show off their idealized physique. It's a stylistic choice, not meant to be realistic, though it certainly isn't as unrealistic as some people would make it seem.

[Br3admax]

The more I hear how Josie's romance is "sacharine" and "Disney" the more I want to try it. 

 

Given the definition of "Disney" seems to be increasingly "not tragic"

It's pretty funny, tbh. There's also a pretty cool duel, I guess. It's not really that big a deal. 

[Colonelkillabee]

Not my point. Superheroes are usually, as their name subtly suggests, idealized superhumans. Ergo, giving them extremely revealing clothing (or very little clothing at all, as was the case with older examples like John Carter and Conan the Barbarian) was a way for them to show off their idealized physique. It's a stylistic choice, not meant to be realistic, though it certainly isn't as unrealistic as some people would make it seem.

Well that's nice and all, and believe me, I definitely got the idealized angle since she's supposed to be "perfect", but that doesn't make me like it anymore than Spiderman's big blue and red ass.

 

I never said I didn't get the reason for her attire. I even gave another explanation just above. I still think it's ****.

[Gambit458]

Cassandra went to the Seekers because she had to (the Chantry made her go there, they wouldn't let her be a templar). She ultimately found herself liking her life as a Seeker until she found out how rotten they were.

 

Miranda went to Cerberus because she had to (they were the only group who could provide her protection from her father). She ultimately found herself liking her life in Cerberus until she found out how rotten they were.

 

I also like how you phrase Miranda's mini-bio there with negative bias while you effectively whitewash Cassandra's and make it sound way better. "Miranda is an upstart b**ch who is sad she's better than everyone else, while sweet darling Cassandra found faith and happiness!"

 

You're either ignoring everything I'm writing because you're dead-set in your opinion and nothing I say will change the way you think, or you're doing this on purpose to f**k with me. You vastly oversimplify Miranda's story while propping Cassandra's up on a gilded podium studded with diamonds, and you just say "yeah, no" to any and all comparisons I make, on top of of insulting Miranda's clothes (because nobody has ever made that point before, you're being really edgy by bringing that up as much as you have).

*high five*

[Colonelkillabee]

Love it when people try to pal up when they have little else to stand on. They do the same thing in the dalish thread too. LOL

[Gambit458]

Love it when people whine and complain because nobody takes their side rofl Go get a tissue for your tears

[Colonelkillabee]

Love it when people whine and complain because nobody takes their side rofl Go get a tissue for your tears

 Lol nobody's whining or complaining. I just find you to be rather cute.

[Colonelkillabee]

I also don't need anyone on my side, I know what I say is ironclad.

[Gambit458]

 Lol nobody's whining or complaining. I just find you to be rather cute.

Except you. Thanks, I am quite the looker. "Ironclad"..Well at least we know that you not only whine, think you're entitled to say whatever you want when you're not, but also that you're delusional. Most interesting

[(Disgusted noise.)]

As far as the topic at hand, Cassandra obviously beats Josephine. No contest.

 

As far as comparing and contrasting Cassandra and Miranda, well those two are my favorite (female) characters in Dragon Age and Mass Effect (and if it wasn't for my unapologetic bias toward Kaidan and Dorian they would possibly be my favorite characters period), and I see a lot more similarities than differences. Obviously they're not carbon copies of each other, and thankfully so, Miranda's biggest internal struggle is low self-esteem and insecurity which is something that isn't an issue for Cassandra, but you've still got two driven, guarded women who struggle with their world view being shaken to it's core.

 

Of course, if you love one and not the other, you're going to be prone to focus on differences than similarities.

[Colonelkillabee]

Except you. Thanks, I am quite the looker. "Ironclad"..Well at least we know that you not only whine, think you're entitled to say whatever you want when you're not, but also that you're delusional. Most interesting

Free speech is a thing where I live so yes, I am entitled to that. Glad I intrigue you, lol.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

People keep saying this like it's a bad thing...

I know, right? 90's Disney is almost always used to show Disney at its best. 

[Gambit458]

As far as the topic at hand, Cassandra obviously beats Josephine. No contest.

 

As far as comparing and contrasting Cassandra and Miranda, well those two are my favorite (female) characters in Dragon Age and Mass Effect (and if it wasn't for my unapologetic bias toward Kaidan and Dorian they would possibly be my favorite characters period), and I see a lot more similarities than differences. Obviously they're not carbon copies of each other, and thankfully so, Miranda's biggest internal struggle is low self-esteem and insecurity which is something that isn't an issue for Cassandra, but you've still got two driven, guarded women who struggle with their world view being shaken to it's core.

 

Of course, if you love one and not the other, you're going to be prone to focus on differences than similarities.

The thing about Miranda and Cassandra was that I originally brought it up in terms of their beliefs and ideologies. They were very similar in how Miranda felt towards Cerberus and how Cassandra felt towards the Seekers. Both organizations wound up becoming corrupt or swayed from their original purpose. ColonelIThinkIcanDoWhateverIwant however tried to turn it into a competition of looks because he's obsessed with Cassandra and lacks the comprehension that if he hates Miri so much then he should take it to the Mass Effect forum. This comparison should've died pages ago since it's had nothing to do with the thread past what I said