66 réponses à ce sujet

[TennesseeTuxedo]

I love BioWare games but if there was one major criticism I would throw, it is the mind-numbing mini-games and side challenges they include, such as the planet scanning in Mass Effect games, that I always viewed as "chores" to do after each fun mission.

 

It seems Dragon Age Inquisition got its investment in tedium with the Astrariums and the shards.  Now sure, I like mental challenges like the Astrariums, I just don't care to have complicated ones wedged into my RPG fun.  But the mother of all wet rags are the Oasis shards.  Whomever thought this would be fun has no place anywhere around games.  Shards on the other levels were unrewarding but not too bad, they at least give you a reason to explore the area.  The Oasis shards are another matter!  It's this done dozens and dozens and dozens of times:  (1) you try to find where you can drop down to get a shard (2) you miss/die (3) then fast travel back to the south camp and run back on one of the long three paths north to retry or get the next shard .... It's almost a throwback to those early arcade tome raider adventure games.  I got a trainer so I can at least drop without worrying about dying and it still takes an eternity.  It's a blotch on what is an otherwise fun area to explore.

 

But I always wondered, does BW put these things in because they are under some tragically wrong impression gamers will find them fun?  Is it just cheap "filler"?  Or do they feel like the game is too much fun, could possibly lead to addiction, and thus needs some mind-numbing and/or painful tedium to break it up a bit?

[Elsariel]

But I always wondered, does BW put these things in because they are under some tragically wrong impression gamers will find them fun?  Is it just cheap "filler"?  Or do they feel like the game is too much fun, could possibly lead to addiction, and thus needs some mind-numbing and/or painful tedium to break it up a bit?

 

I.... found them fun.  The shards I could do without, but I really liked the astrarium puzzles.  

[Broganisity]

The astrarium puzzles reminded me of an old Superman PC game that taught you stuff. Like Astronomy and how not to die in your own garage.

[robertmarilyn]

I like the astrarium puzzles. I despise the shard in the Hinterlands that is high up on that ledge near the dragon. 

[Xhaiden]

Both of these things were totally optional. If you do not enjoy them. Do not do them. They are for explorer/puzzler/collector players ( or ones who simply have OCD like myself. )

 

The same could not be said for ME2 planet scanning.

[Sidney]

Well the resource gathering in total is a lot more in line with planet scanning. You can very easily skip shard pickup - grab 1 to open the Forgotten Oasis if you must - and the Astrariums are at least puzzles AND optional. Stopping every few meters to grab another rock or shurb is the tedious part of the game and also a lot less optional.

[DarkAmaranth1966]

Gathering I don't mind, puzzles and having to play like I'm pretending to be a mountian goat I hate. I bought and RPG game not a puzzle game or a mountain goat game. If I wanted to do those things, I'd buy "Puzzle World" Or "Moutain Goat GoGo."

[Sidney]

I dislike the "don't do it" argument for a lot of reasons and in the case of rock and weed picking it is very hard to avoid but the shards and astrariums are really really easy to avoid and i have after play through #1. Puzzles/riddles shouldn't be in an RPG (I solve them my character doesn't) but they've been there going back to BG with Bioware.

 

Look at it this way this is a lot better than the cringe inducing turret gunner mini-game in KoTOR that made me want to go to Edmonton and commit acts of arson.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I finished all the astrariums (loved them!) and the shards. I'm not a fan of the shards because ... why exactly is the leader of the Inquisition climbing mountains to find stuff when I have people for that? The number needed to unlock all the doors is outrageous and way, way too much work for the pitiful rewards at the end of the quest.

Still... at least you had quest markers helping you to find them. The mosaics are much worse.

[DaemionMoadrin]

I dislike the "don't do it" argument for a lot of reasons and in the case of rock and weed picking it is very hard to avoid but the shards and astrariums are really really easy to avoid and i have after play through #1. Puzzles/riddles shouldn't be in an RPG (I solve them my character doesn't) but they've been there going back to BG with Bioware.

 

Look at it this way this is a lot better than the cringe inducing turret gunner mini-game in KoTOR that made me want to go to Edmonton and commit acts of arson.

 

At least they no longer put "Towers of Hanoi" into every game. ^^

[Xhaiden]

Stopping every few meters to grab another rock or shurb is the tedious part of the game and also a lot less optional.

 

You really don't have to do that either. You can simply buy materials / find them as loot ( and finding them as loot is honestly the more reliable way to get rare ones ). Hell, the crafting system itself is optional at best and overpowered/imbalanced at worst.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Yeah... and the Inquisition is eager to provide you with the best herbs they can procure. Cullen is always so proud when he can deliver goods to me...

 

[Sidney]

Whatever foraging party goes out and comes back with 6 herbs or rocks needs to step in front of the throne for dereliction of duty.

[Sidney]

You really don't have to do that either. You can simply buy materials / find them as loot ( and finding them as loot is honestly the more reliable way to get rare ones ). Hell, the crafting system itself is optional at best and overpowered/imbalanced at worst.

Loot is highly unreliable and usually not in quantities you need for higher end schematics. Crafting is overpowered but the rocks and weeds show up in potions and potion upgrades ( not so optional IMHO) and in other quests outside requisitions. Plus crafting items helps develop character abilities since what rock you slap in armor can change stats now that leveling doesn't. You can skip it other than pure elf root but it is a lot harder to avoid than shards and star puzzles.

[Elsariel]

Puzzles/riddles shouldn't be in an RPG (I solve them my character doesn't) but they've been there going back to BG with Bioware.

Say whaaat? Puzzle solving is something I actually expect and look forward to in RPG's. If there were no puzzles I would be very sad.

[Chiramu]

OP perhaps you are not a big puzzle solver? You might enjoy the occasional puzzle but I found the shards and astariums to be the best part of the game for me, I just wanted to complete them and I never complained about them. Some are harder than others, but that is a PUZZLE! Some puzzles always have to be harder than others.

[Elhanan]

The only one I loathe is the Bottles of Thedas. The other ones that do not appear to benefit the Inquisition or the character; skip 'em (eg; Mosaic tiles). But I am fine with the Astrariums, esp when they can reveal hidden treasure that is of great use to the campaign.

[TennesseeTuxedo]

Gathering I don't mind, puzzles and having to play like I'm pretending to be a mountian goat I hate. I bought and RPG game not a puzzle game or a mountain goat game. If I wanted to do those things, I'd buy "Puzzle World" Or "Moutain Goat GoGo."

Exactly!  I love the gathering and crafting aspect of the game.  The easier Astrarium puzzles were kind of fun because I could do them in a few minutes.  But then the Storm Coast one were ridiculous in the same context.  I would love to do those sitting on plane with nothing else to do.  But when I only have an hour or so every so often to play my RPG, it is unrewarding at best to spend half an hour figuring out how to connect 30 dots the right way.

 

After an hour or so I thought I had all the Forbidden Oasis shards because there were no more diamonds left on the maps and I had collected maybe a dozen.  But the joke is on me!  I couldn't open all the doors and when I checked the journal, there must be a dozen or so more to get!  The real joy is I'm not sure exactly where those are supposed to be.  I don't see anymore skulls.  So looks like lots and lots more mind-numbing mountain goating for me (actually I'm just going to find a spoiler since this part of the game spoiled itself as far as I am concerned   ).

 

I think BioWare is being sadistic when they put these in the game.  It's crunch time developing games.  I've heard stories when they get close to deadline, they bring cots in so people can sleep there, wake up, and continue working.  So maybe this is a little bit of revenge love from the staff.

[TennesseeTuxedo]

OP perhaps you are not a big puzzle solver? You might enjoy the occasional puzzle but I found the shards and astariums to be the best part of the game for me, I just wanted to complete them and I never complained about them. Some are harder than others, but that is a PUZZLE! Some puzzles always have to be harder than others.

 

I like puzzles.  The simple astariums were fun.  The ones on the Coast were not in the context of playing the RPG.  I could solve them, there are some rules of thumb like starting at the points with the most vertices, but the number of possible permutations make the big ones too long and tedious to trial and error through.  I get an hour or so every so often to play.  It's just not rewarding for me to spend half an hour of RPG time connecting 30 dots.  The thread did educate me that some people like these things.

[Sidney]

Say whaaat? Puzzle solving is something I actually expect and look forward to in RPG's. If there were no puzzles I would be very sad.

For me it is that I (Sidney not my player character) do not pick locks. I do not swing swords. Yet Sidney has to solve puzzles. I can dumb down puzzle solutions for role playing if my character isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I can't scale up if the puzzles are things I'm not particularly good at even if my character should be.

[devSin]

The astrariums are great.

Logic puzzles are never misplaced.

The shards do get a bit tedious, but they're all optional and can be skipped with little consequence. If you don't feel like grabbing them all, then just come back later to do it (or don't do it at all).

[Elsariel]

For me it is that I (Sidney not my player character) do not pick locks. I do not swing swords. Yet Sidney has to solve puzzles. I can dumb down puzzle solutions for role playing if my character isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer. I can't scale up if the puzzles are things I'm not particularly good at even if my character should be.

I can understand if you're not into them and they frustrate you. I mean, hey, not everyone will love everything about the game.

My mind just boggled because I can't imagine playing an RPG without some sort of puzzle solving. I love them to pieces and would hate it if they were removed.

[Xhaiden]

Loot is highly unreliable and usually not in quantities you need for higher end schematics. Crafting is overpowered but the rocks and weeds show up in potions and potion upgrades ( not so optional IMHO) and in other quests outside requisitions. Plus crafting items helps develop character abilities since what rock you slap in armor can change stats now that leveling doesn't. You can skip it other than pure elf root but it is a lot harder to avoid than shards and star puzzles.

 

You can purchase the common herbs and plant the rare ones. On top of finding them as loot. Specilization quests do call for resources but they call for common ones again. Higher end schematics are overpowered so not much sympathy there for you having to go out and do some leg work. Plus even then there's no dirth of higher level materials as soon as you reach Skyhold. To the point of absurdity in some cases. ( You can get hundreds of Tier 3 rare leather in Emprise for example with little to no effort ).

 

Plus loot / storebought equipment has stats as well and non-faction gear is modular too. So this is only an issue if you were min-maxing in which case you're going to ruin the game anyhow regardless of difficulty level. Not even Nightmare mode saves the poor mobs from Tier 3 gear.

 

 

[actionhero112]

You actually do them?

 

Life's too short for that kind of anti-fun. I'd do it if it had, like you know, some kind of meaningful reward. Or was impressive graphically. Or had any redeeming factor whatsoever to the story.