111 réponses à ce sujet

[InDominata]

Throughout the game we've discovered that the elven gods have a pretty selfish/nasty streak. Falon'din, Solas explains, was incredibly vain and started wars to amass more followers. Elgar'nan was known to be vengeful and Andruil the goddess of sacrifice. The Keeper of Secrets, Dirthamen, seems to have a relatively clean slate - until you go to his Lost Temple. Here you must collect some interestingly named artefacts:

Eyes of Sorrow, Head of Misery, Tongue of Whispers, Hands of Torment, Ears of Unheeding and Heart of Despondency.

Now, that rather sounds tortuous to me. And if these parts were removed from the Highest One, leader of the Temple, it would be reasonable to assume his followers punished him in a way that was ritualistic.

 

Perhaps this ritual was the kind that the Highest One used to conduct on victims - his followers seeing this as an ironic vengeance? Or maybe the Highest One was the victim, no longer properly following the path of Dirthamen, the rest of the disciples enacted the ritual on the betrayer, someone who was not loyal to their god. After all, Dirthamen was the god who encouraged loyalty, as he himself was bound in loyalty to his cruel 'brother' Falon'din (depictions of whom are found in Dirthamen's Temple).

 

Based on these assumptions, it seems Dirthamen encouraged loyalty and secret-keeping in a pretty barbaric way. Which puts him right up there with the cruel tendencies found in the rest of the pantheon.

[Hellion Rex]

Yup, Dirthamen seems to be right up there with the rest of elven pantheon.

[Master Warder Z_]

Creepy Temple too.

[Steelcan]

Oh yes, and it's just the elven pantheon that aren't nice. It's not like the Maker purportedly abandoned his creations over and over again over petty faults (once for the spirits, three times for the mortals) and refuses to answer prayers until they meet impossible standards to regain his favor. Or the Old Gods that encouraged the creation of the highly corrupt and destructive Tevinter at the height of their power, become destructive dragons that try to destroy all life when corrupted with the taint.

 

Big shock, the gods of this world aren't nice, no matter the pantheon. 

 

But sure, let's ignore the faults of the human gods and throw sticks at the elven ones for the exact same thing.

*looks for where OP said the maker or Old Gods were paragons of goodness*

[flabbadence]

Oh yes, and it's just the elven pantheon that aren't nice. It's not like the Maker purportedly abandoned his creations over and over again over petty faults (once for the spirits, three times for the mortals) and refuses to answer prayers until they meet impossible standards to regain his favor. Or the Old Gods that encouraged the creation of the highly corrupt and destructive Tevinter at the height of their power, become destructive dragons that try to destroy all life when corrupted with the taint.

 

Big shock, the gods of this world aren't nice, no matter the pantheon. 

 

But sure, let's ignore the faults of the human gods and throw sticks at the elven ones for the exact same thing.

 

Here, have a Sprite

[AtreiyaN7]

Oh yes, and it's just the elven pantheon that aren't nice. It's not like the Maker purportedly abandoned his creations over and over again over petty faults (once for the spirits, three times for the mortals) and refuses to answer prayers until they meet impossible standards to regain his favor. Or the Old Gods that encouraged the creation of the highly corrupt and destructive Tevinter at the height of their power, become destructive dragons that try to destroy all life when corrupted with the taint.

 

Big shock, the gods of this world aren't nice, no matter the pantheon. 

 

But sure, let's ignore the faults of the human gods and throw sticks at the elven ones for the exact same thing.

 

In the Maker's defense, I'll just point out that Andraste's earthly husband MAferath betrayed her and was responsible for her death. Now seeing as she was the Maker's bride and all that, maybe the Maker has a right to be a bit cheesed off with humankind - just saying.

[byne]

*looks for where OP said the maker or Old Gods were paragons of goodness*

 

When you inexplicably identify with a group of slavers who warred upon themselves, you'll see lots of things that arent there.

[Ryzaki]

*looks for where OP said the maker or Old Gods were paragons of goodness*

 

 

It'd funny sad but funny as hell.

[Steelcan]

When you inexplicably identify with a group of slavers who warred upon themselves, you'll see lots of things that arent there.

now now, we can't criticize a pantheon of blood thirsty, petty, monsters, other deities may or may not have been as bad

[byne]

now now, we can't criticize a pantheon of blood thirsty, petty, monsters, other deities may or may not have been as bad

 

The only deities we have any proof existed at all are the elven ones, so those are the ones I'm gonna hate on =D

[Steelcan]

The only deities we have any proof existed at all are the elven ones, so those are the ones I'm gonna hate on =D

well we know the Old Gods existed, whether they were divine or not is another matter, same with the elves

[Roamingmachine]

Those 'artefacts' were actually bodyparts of the high priest. Torn apart and cursed by the other priests due to him sealing them all inside the temple after they lost contact with Dirthamen due to him getting sealed away.

But hey, lets not facts get in the way of blind hate.

0/10 thread. Have a Sera.

[Steelcan]

clearly since we are saying that a "god" whose priest was ritually dismembered was probably not a top dude, we are oppressing the Dalish even further

[stop_him]

In the Maker's defense, I'll just point out that Andraste's earthly husband MAferath betrayed her and was responsible for her death. Now seeing as she was the Maker's bride and all that, maybe the Maker has a right to be a bit cheesed off with humankind - just saying.

Eh, kinda Adam and Eve-ish. Punishing all humanity for some bad thing a couple of people did eons ago. The Maker is immature, and obviously not a God. Solas touches upon this point. He says something like a "God" who feels like he has something to prove is no God at all. The Maker is the same. No real God would demand retribution or make other such petty, mortal demands. Gods are supposed to be above all that rubbish.

[byne]

well we know the Old Gods existed, whether they were divine or not is another matter, same with the elves

I mean even Corypheus, who was a high priest of Dumat, doubts he existed, so thats debatable.

[myahele]

i wonder if Dirthamen was like a spymaster amongst of the elven god. Think Leliana, but on a grander scale. He has knowledge about alot of people and use that to black mail, kill, etc. Seeing that Dirthamen was close to Falon'Din I wouldnt be too surprised if he used his vast network of spies to help Falon'Din "gain" more followers

[Steelcan]

Eh, kinda Adam and Eve-ish. Punishing all humanity for some bad that a couple of people did eons ago. The Maker is immature, and obviously not a God. Solas touches upon this point. He says something like a "God" who feels like he has something to prove is no God at all. The Maker is the same. No real God would demand retribution or make other such petty, mortal demands. Gods are supposed to be above all that rubbish.

he doesn't make demands, the Chantry merely guesses at them

 

Solas also entertains the possibility he exists, and if he does exist he is almost certainly a capital G God

[Steelcan]

I mean even Corypheus, who was a high priest of Dumat, doubts he existed, so thats debatable.

a moment of doubt while his world was falling apart, hardly firm evidence, when we have centuries of history saying the first Archedemon was Dumat

[stop_him]

he doesn't make demands, the Chantry merely guesses at them

 

Solas also entertains the possibility he exists, and if he does exist he is almost certainly a capital G God

If that is the case, then yes, The Maker is likely a real God because he does nothing. A real God is beyond mortal understanding and likely has no vested interest in mortal affairs. To a real God, humans, elves, etc., are of the same level of interest as an anthill in the middle of a field. Indifference. 

[errantknight]

Ok, the giant chips on shoulders are now so large, we probably better not mention elves or their gods at all, because saying anything at all is a back handed insult.

Elves? What elves? Lol

[Monica21]

What I thought was interesting about the Temple of Dirthamen was that the device that holds the Highest One looks exactly like the elven artifacts Solas wants you to turn on.

[Ryzaki]

What I thought was interesting about the Temple of Dirthamen was that the device that holds the Highest One looks exactly like the elven artifacts Solas wants you to turn on.

 

Yeah I ran up to it thinking I could get some influence...nope.

 

Now I have a bad feeling about Solas little things now.

[Laughing_Man]

What I thought was interesting about the Temple of Dirthamen was that the device that holds the Highest One looks exactly like the elven artifacts Solas wants you to turn on.

 

Yeah, don't read too much into it. Someone at BW may have decided to reuse an existing model of "magical elven artifact" instead of making a new one

just for this side quest.

 

 

Those 'artefacts' were actually bodyparts of the high priest. Torn apart and cursed by the other priests due to him sealing them all inside the temple after they lost contact with Dirthamen due to him getting sealed away.

But hey, lets not facts get in the way of blind hate.

 

I agree. What we found in this creepy dungeon was the results of an internal conflict between members of an elven cult that was ignited for unknown reasons. Beyond that it's all speculations and no facts.

[BronzTrooper]

Throughout the game we've discovered that the elven gods have a pretty selfish/nasty streak. Falon'din, Solas explains, was incredibly vain and started wars to amass more followers. Elgar'nan was known to be vengeful and Andruil the goddess of sacrifice. The Keeper of Secrets, Dirthamen, seems to have a relatively clean slate - until you go to his Lost Temple. Here you must collect some interestingly named artefacts:

Eyes of Sorrow, Head of Misery, Tongue of Whispers, Hands of Torment, Ears of Unheeding and Heart of Despondency.

Now, that rather sounds tortuous to me. And if these parts were removed from the Highest One, leader of the Temple, it would be reasonable to assume his followers punished him in a way that was ritualistic.

 

Perhaps this ritual was the kind that the Highest One used to conduct on victims - his followers seeing this as an ironic vengeance? Or maybe the Highest One was the victim, no longer properly following the path of Dirthamen, the rest of the disciples enacted the ritual on the betrayer, someone who was not loyal to their god. After all, Dirthamen was the god who encouraged loyalty, as he himself was bound in loyalty to his cruel 'brother' Falon'din (depictions of whom are found in Dirthamen's Temple).

 

Based on these assumptions, it seems Dirthamen encouraged loyalty and secret-keeping in a pretty barbaric way. Which puts him right up there with the cruel tendencies found in the rest of the pantheon.

 

If you read the codex entries, the priests below the Highest One start getting suspicious and paranoid about him, thinking that he's to blame for Dirthamen's disappearance or, at least, supposed disappearance.  It's implied that the Highest One had access to secrets the other priests didn't (like a spymaster, in a sense) and regularly communed with Dirthamen himself, which we all know is certainly possible.  This leads me to believe that there was a certain reliance on Dirthamen among the priests, and when that connection was lost, they turned on each other out of suspicion and paranoia.  Considering how they were the priests of the God of Secrets and Knowledge, it makes sense.