220 réponses à ce sujet

[luckybaer]

I started replaying Dragon Age: Origins, and compared to Dragon Age: Inquisition, it seems to do a better job at drawing the player into the game and getting the player emotionally involved.
 

Spoiler

Almost immediately in Dragon Age: Origins, the Cousland family is betrayed by Arl Howe - within their own castle walls, no less!  Teryn Cousland (the father) and Teyrna Cousland (the mom) had a tight relationship, and even though the Teyrna had a chance to get out of the castle alive with Duncan the Grey Warden and the player (her son/daughter, who would later become the Hero of Ferelden), she chose to stay with her dying husband, even though it meant her own death.  The player had to immediately deal with the loss of his/her father and mother, instantly creating the desire for revenge against Arl Howe (not even Loghain was as miserable a person as Arl Howe, IMHO). The start of Dragon Age: Inquisition doesn't even compare.

 

The first few major characters the player meets in Dragon Age: Origins are pretty memorable, and their personalities are developed quickly.  

Spoiler

King Cailan, Teryn Loghain, Duncan the Grey Warden, and Morrigan are all larger-than-life, and Alistair appears to be trying to avoid becoming larger-than-life.  Can anyone not recall the boyish, naive attitude King Cailan had towards the war with the Darkspawn?  How about Duncan's honor and his high level of patience with smart-aleck Alistair and any of the smart-a$$ comments the players would select from the dialog choices?  Loghain seemed like a competent and veteran advisor to King Cailan - little did we know, at the time, that he would turn out to be one of the game's biggest heels!  And Morrigan's first appearance out in the Kokari Wilds?  Absolutely stunning - a beautiful and confident woman who has a very tense relationship with her "mother," Flemish (who looks way, WAY better in DA: 2, but I digress).  What does Dragon Age: Inquisition offer us?  A short intro scene with Leliana and Cassandra (who, from DA: 2's limited exposure, wasn't exactly a very likeable person) "interrogating" the soon-to-be called "Herald."  Then, the player is stuck with Cassandra for a while until they come across Varric (nice to see him, but his character was developed in DA: 2), and Solas (don't learn too much about him initially).

 

For all its advantages over DA: O, DA: I truly does fall short in creating depth of emotion.  

Spoiler

Eventually, characters are fleshed out a little bit more - Blackwall turns out to have quite a twist, as does Solas (although we don't learn that until the end of the game). Finding out Cassandra is a secret admirer of Varric's writings is cute and funny, but almost totally out of character.  It was a pretty big jump from someone who appeared to have no sense of humor and no softside to someone what still had no sense of humor but apparently liked pulp fiction - including the romance aspect of pulp fiction, not just the hack and slash.

 

I think DA: I is just a prelude of much, much more to come.  Things were kind of easy this go around.  I think all of us are now emotionally attached to quite a few of the characters.  I'd hate to see anything bad happen to Cassandra, Varric, Iron Bull, Dorian, Solas, Cullen, Josephine, or Leliana.  I'd even be a little bummed out if something bad happened to Sera, Vivienne, Blackwall, and some of the minor NPCs that populate the world (like Scout Harding, the Blacksmith, etc.).  I have a gut feeling that in the next expansion, we will (like it or not) be forced to make decisions that end up costing the lives of at least one of our companions.  Big changes are going to happen.  There will be so much to cover:

 

• What happens to the Chantry and the new Divine?
• What of the Grey Wardens?
• Solas??  WTF?
• The Inquisitor?
• Redcliffe?  The bridge from the town to the castle will be repaired, and what of Bann Teagan?  He was a likeable and honorable person from DA: O.
• Alistair and Anora?  What's up with them?
• Bianca... she's living on the edge.
• The dwarves... What is King Bhelen up to?
• Templars?  How will they evolve - if at all?

The best is yet to come, and Bioware has set things up to present themselves with a multitude of story lines that should be great to see unfold!

[stonerbishop]

I started replaying Dragon Age: Origins, and compared to Dragon Age: Inquisition, it seems to do a better job at drawing the player into the game and getting the player emotionally involved.

Spoiler

Almost immediately in Dragon Age: Origins, the Cousland family is betrayed by Arl Howe - within their own castle walls, no less! Teryn Cousland (the father) and Teyrna Cousland (the mom) had a tight relationship, and even though the Teyrna had a chance to get out of the castle alive with Duncan the Grey Warden and the player (her son/daughter, who would later become the Hero of Ferelden), she chose to stay with her dying husband, even though it meant her own death. The player had to immediately deal with the loss of his/her father and mother, instantly creating the desire for revenge against Arl Howe (not even Loghain was as miserable a person as Arl Howe, IMHO). The start of Dragon Age: Inquisition doesn't even compare.

The first few major characters the player meets in Dragon Age: Origins are pretty memorable, and their personalities are developed quickly.

Spoiler

King Cailan, Teryn Loghain, Duncan the Grey Warden, and Morrigan are all larger-than-life, and Alistair appears to be trying to avoid becoming larger-than-life. Can anyone not recall the boyish, naive attitude King Cailan had towards the war with the Darkspawn? How about Duncan's honor and his high level of patience with smart-aleck Alistair and any of the smart-a$$ comments the players would select from the dialog choices? Loghain seemed like a competent and veteran advisor to King Cailan - little did we know, at the time, that he would turn out to be one of the game's biggest heels! And Morrigan's first appearance out in the Kokari Wilds? Absolutely stunning - a beautiful and confident woman who has a very tense relationship with her "mother," Flemish (who looks way, WAY better in DA: 2, but I digress). What does Dragon Age: Inquisition offer us? A short intro scene with Leliana and Cassandra (who, from DA: 2's limited exposure, wasn't exactly a very likeable person) "interrogating" the soon-to-be called "Herald." Then, the player is stuck with Cassandra for a while until they come across Varric (nice to see him, but his character was developed in DA: 2), and Solas (don't learn too much about him initially).

For all its advantages over DA: O, DA: I truly does fall short in creating depth of emotion.

Spoiler

Eventually, characters are fleshed out a little bit more - Blackwall turns out to have quite a twist, as does Solas (although we don't learn that until the end of the game). Finding out Cassandra is a secret admirer of Varric's writings is cute and funny, but almost totally out of character. It was a pretty big jump from someone who appeared to have no sense of humor and no softside to someone what still had no sense of humor but apparently liked pulp fiction - including the romance aspect of pulp fiction, not just the hack and slash.

I think DA: I is just a prelude of much, much more to come. Things were kind of easy this go around. I think all of us are now emotionally attached to quite a few of the characters. I'd hate to see anything bad happen to Cassandra, Varric, Iron Bull, Dorian, Solas, Cullen, Josephine, or Leliana. I'd even be a little bummed out if something bad happened to Sera, Vivienne, Blackwall, and some of the minor NPCs that populate the world (like Scout Harding, the Blacksmith, etc.). I have a gut feeling that in the next expansion, we will (like it or not) be forced to make decisions that end up costing the lives of at least one of our companions. Big changes are going to happen. There will be so much to cover:

• What happens to the Chantry and the new Divine?
• What of the Grey Wardens?
• Solas?? WTF?
• The Inquisitor?
• Redcliffe? The bridge from the town to the castle will be repaired, and what of Bann Teagan? He was a likeable and honorable person from DA: O.
• Alistair and Anora? What's up with them?
• Bianca... she's living on the edge.
• The dwarves... What is King Bhelen up to?
• Templars? How will they evolve - if at all?

The best is yet to come, and Bioware has set things up to present themselves with a multitude of story lines that should be great to see unfold!

Don't forget the bartender. Best character in DA, I

[o Ventus]

Mature = grimdark = quality, amirite?

It's why people like Game of Thrones. Also because of the incest.

 

snap.

[In Exile]

This game has no drama. There are a few moments that come close. A FEW. One of the biggest complaints, even some of the critics who praised the game brought this up - that your companions feel more like tools then actual companions.

The only connection I feel with this game is the lore.

Now ME3. Kai Lang was HORRIBLE. Almost ruined the game for me. Another example of BW using a character from a book (or in his case a comic) that most never heard of. just like Cole. When I first met Cole I was like, "Who the hell is this?". I had to stop and google him.

But the rest of ME3.. you gonna tell me thinking you almost lost Grunt (assuming he didn't die in ME2 and you completed his ME2 quest) didn't move you a bit? The first time you saw Mordin die? Or, if you betrayed Wrex, having to kill him on the Citadel? And speaking of betrayal... is there any in DAI?

DAI lacks emotional connection. The most I cared about was the lore.

PS: That's the best example of emotion in this game: the "Dawn will Come" scene at the end of DAI? LOL

Like I said, this game has a few moments. A few. And most of them aren't that gut twisting. Sure the song was nice, but the rest of that scene - discovery of Skyhold - I was pissed. I felt like stabbing Solas in the face: "You gonna JUST NOW tell me about an empty fortress built in the mountains?" What? And of course, my next question would've been how he knew about it.

No. That's what I'm going to tell you. ME3 didn't earn respect as a gritty game. If you played ME1/ME2 right basically only Ashley/Kaiden died. With the pure paragon choices you basically get an awesome ME3 works state that has everything go your way. Mordin is the only scene that works and then only because it's such a culmination of his arc.

Otherwise ME3 is just the same pure heroics space opera with a more depressing backdrop until you get trolled by the ending.

[LupoCarlos]

from my experience:

DA:I has been the best role playing experience, and this is coming from a role player. To the point that i almost cried because i had to say goodbye to my second character. Once i understood the way that the game is built i got the better of how my character was built in the story. Your Inquisitor truly builds from nothing, and i felt as my own her love with Cullen, her admiration towards his almost mentor, Solas; how she was changed as she drank from the well of sorrows, etc.

 

DA:I brought back some of the epic experience that Origins was (is not near of being what Origins was with its true EPIC experience) but still, it was a good change from what DA2 was.

 

I know that most people don't feel this way, and i'm truly sorry of how BW screwed a great game with stupid issues. One day, tho', i'm sure we'll see the game on its true potential.

 

Now that i think of it... drugs made the experience a lot more epic and beautiful, lel

[txgoldrush]

Are you saying that because you dislike big areas, side quests and exploration? The narrative was fine as it comes to narrative connecting with world that is just based on your view if you like big areas or if you like linear corridor areas like ME series did (last two games at least). And yes i don't like Skyrim when it comes to how plot was handled but i like it in Inquisiton.

Narrative more important than role playing? You can make both equally as good and Bioware managed to do that in some of their previous games.

ME3 certainly wasn't one of them though. They couldn't even handle side quests and objectives properly.

 

My main problem with ME3 was it's theme, it didn't had enough "ME theme" which is what made previous games so great. it was trying to be to much like Halo and Gears of War. Few deaths were handled well like Mordin, Legion or Tali I don't mind forced deaths, i actually support them. What i do mind however is when my protagonist starts acting like an idiot, Thane could have easily been saved if Shepard would help him take down Kai Leng, instead he was just watching him getting stabbed. Same goes for Anderson, if TIM doesn't kill him Shepard automaticaly shoots him without even allowing us to decide anything, which makes 0 sense.

 

They never took control away from us as the Inquisitor sure he/she says few stuff on her own sometimes but main thing is i felt like Inquisitor was my character, i didn't felt like that in ME3. Shepard was someone else, he wasn't my character anymore.

 

But this going off topic so i don't think i will bother with more posts on why i dislike ME3 and why i like Inquisition.

Mass Effect 3 did have plenty of "Mass Effect' theme, but like the rest of the series, each game had a different theme and vibe. Mass Effect 3 was a war story, the first two weren't. In fact, Mass Effect is one of the most versatlle franchises I have seen in gaming and different types of stories and genres can come out of the franchise.

 

Second, once again, Thane. If you were paying attention to the exact spot where the fight takes place and the cutscene, you will know that the salarian councilor ran into the executor's office, a dead end room, while Shepard and his squad block the door. They are not going to try and fight an assassin with a CLOAKING DEVICE who can slip by them and kill the councillor. Face facts here, Shepard knew the mission, save the council, not save Thane. Shepard is being smart here, not dumb. And Shepard shoots andersen because TIM makes him do it, you know, bad guy being bad.

 

Inquisitior was a shell. He barely has backstory and barely has a character. Shepard on the other hand is a protagonist, not a stupid avatar and Shepard was part of the story as a character instead of having characters talk at him or her. Hell, the DIvinity Original Sin couple shows a lot more identity than the Inquisitor. Ouch.

[txgoldrush]

It's because all of the emotion in the game went into 3 things.

 

1: Dorian's tiff with his father.

2: Sera's personality

3: Vivienne's sense of superiority.

And Morrigans love for her child, best scene in the game.

 

Other than that, a huge step down from ME3 and DA2.

[HeroxMatt]

And Morrigans love for her child, best scene in the game.

 

Other than that, a huge step down from ME3 and DA2.

 

Such a great scene and full of so much pathos and depth. I really cannot speak of how good well done it was. 

 

It's just a shame there wasn't more of it in the game.

[Direwolf0294]

One thing that really annoyed me was how during the destruction of Haven you can save a bunch of NPCs, but then when you get to Skyhold all the NPCs you saved step down from their job and get replaced by other characters anyway.

 

When I played, I saved all the characters I could but one - the potions guy who had tended to my character while she was knocked out. His loss could have actually meant something, except it didn't because saving the others didn't mean something.

[KaiserShep]

Which reminds me, been meaning to ask...

 

Does Flissa become a hooker if you rescue her in Haven?

 

I talked to her, she says, "I serve in other ways now. *laughs*."

 

LOL. I think she works for the Chantry or something. Flissa is kind of high strung. But it'd be funny if that happened, after her comment in Haven when you first talk to her (warrior or rogue only).

 

Andraste sent you to us to show us her love, and I am ready for that love. Well, not that kind of love. Unless, that's what you want!

[Nimlowyn]

Well, DAI really punched me in the gut when I had to choose between Alistair and Hawke in Here Lies the Abyss. That was very much a "who do you save from drowning" scenario because I adore them both.

 

My first attempt I actually abandoned after Here Lies the Abyss because I was extremely distraught after leaving Hawke behind (when you talk to Varric afterward, and the Hawke family theme plays? I have never cried so hard over any form of storytelling, ever) but couldn't experience it through my character. That was the only emotional disconnect I had. In my second attempt and first playthrough I chose Alistair, and it still broke my heart (and my Inquisitor's, too). In my canon playthrough, well...I'll probably leave Hawke behind.

 

I'm sorry you didn't have a like experience. I do think the ending could have benefited from a sense of risk. 

[stonerbishop]

LOL. I think she works for the Chantry or something. Flissa is kind of high strung. But it'd be funny if that happened, after her comment in Haven when you first talk to her (warrior or rogue only).

Andraste sent you to us to show us her love, and I am ready for that love. Well, not that kind of love. Unless, that's what you want!

Yes she serves the Chantry now. The new bartender will tell you

[Nimlowyn]

LOL. I think she works for the Chantry or something. Flissa is kind of high strung. But it'd be funny if that happened, after her comment in Haven when you first talk to her (warrior or rogue only).

 

Andraste sent you to us to show us her love, and I am ready for that love. Well, not that kind of love. Unless, that's what you want!

Wow, she didn't say that to my rogue! Just "hello". Man, that would have been great. Oh well next time. X)

[Friera]

Well Hawke's death probably should have hurt me. The whole Alistair/Hawke choice was decent. 

 

I think they should start with LIs in the hard choices. Like... save an entire village or Cullen dies. Or a bundle of puppies or Cassandra dies. Something like that. That's where the real emotional heartbreak is. 

 

Maybe start revealing horrendous things about LI's too. Like beyond Blackwall level. 

 

I want to drink BSN's tears. 

 

I like you. Very funny.

 

But seriously, totally agree. I am currently replaying ME triology, and I am amazed that I am so much more emotionally invested in ME (and DA2 for that matter) than I ever was in Inquisition. Especially in the protagonist. Like I ADORE my femShep and MaleHawke (hence I could never play different gender), but with my Inq I just could not get all obsessive (my friends and family are happy though)

 

The only true shocker was Blackwall...and after the credit. Not enough.

[Chuvvy]

If you think death = emotional depth then your concept of literature is absolute garbage. Death is one of the cheapest and easiest ways to get emotion in any medium, and is there for one of the most shallow ways to do it. By "emotional depth" I think you probably mean drama, and not actual depth to a story. Even so, death is no where near necessary for that to happen. A game, book, or film, doesn't have to have a death, and a death doesn't necessarily add anything to a story. It shouldn't be on a checklist.

 

You can easily achieve this "weight" you describe through other means as well. It's just something Bioware has never really been good at.

 

Also anytime anyone calls any dev "masters of writing" I roll my eyes.

[LadyJaneGrey]

I started replaying Dragon Age: Origins, and compared to Dragon Age: Inquisition, it seems to do a better job at drawing the player into the game and getting the player emotionally involved.

 

For all its advantages over DA: O, DA: I truly does fall short in creating depth of emotion.  

Spoiler

Eventually, characters are fleshed out a little bit more - Blackwall turns out to have quite a twist, as does Solas (although we don't learn that until the end of the game). Finding out Cassandra is a secret admirer of Varric's writings is cute and funny, but almost totally out of character.  It was a pretty big jump from someone who appeared to have no sense of humor and no softside to someone what still had no sense of humor but apparently liked pulp fiction - including the romance aspect of pulp fiction, not just the hack and slash.

 

I think DA: I is just a prelude of much, much more to come.  Things were kind of easy this go around.  I think all of us are now emotionally attached to quite a few of the characters.  I'd hate to see anything bad happen to Cassandra, Varric, Iron Bull, Dorian, Solas, Cullen, Josephine, or Leliana.  I'd even be a little bummed out if something bad happened to Sera, Vivienne, Blackwall, and some of the minor NPCs that populate the world (like Scout Harding, the Blacksmith, etc.).  I have a gut feeling that in the next expansion, we will (like it or not) be forced to make decisions that end up costing the lives of at least one of our companions.  Big changes are going to happen.  There will be so much to cover:

 

• What happens to the Chantry and the new Divine?
• What of the Grey Wardens?
• Solas??  WTF?
• The Inquisitor?
• Redcliffe?  The bridge from the town to the castle will be repaired, and what of Bann Teagan?  He was a likeable and honorable person from DA: O.
• Alistair and Anora?  What's up with them?
• Bianca... she's living on the edge.
• The dwarves... What is King Bhelen up to?
• Templars?  How will they evolve - if at all?

The best is yet to come, and Bioware has set things up to present themselves with a multitude of story lines that should be great to see unfold!

 

Meh...Inquisition yanked me in harder than half of DAO's background stories.

 

On Cassandra: In DAII she seemed enchanted at the idea of Hawke beating the Arishok in a duel.  She's always had a soft spot for stories.  And she DOES have a sense of humor.  Maybe you haven't explored all the dialog options?

 

I do agree that the ending felt like a "set-up" for future DLC and expansions.  It has a lot of potential; I just hope the writers don't force all the Inquisitors into the same personality, beliefs, and character dynamics.

[TevinterSupremacist]

Death isn't required for emotional depth, obviously.

That however, doesn't mean that when death is used, it's cheap/easy/bad_writing. Death can be a perfectly good narrative device.

[Direwolf0294]

Well, DAI really punched me in the gut when I had to choose between Alistair and Hawke in Here Lies the Abyss. That was very much a "who do you save from drowning" scenario because I adore them both.

The problem with that quest is the choice is dependent on choices made in previous games/the DA keep.

 

I really love Alistair, and a choice between him and my Hawke would have been devastating, only in my game Alistair was King (and disappointingly only showed up for about 5 seconds in the game), so my choice was between Hawke and some dude I'd just met and had minimal interaction with. That was an easy choice to make (Hawke lived, obviously).

 

A games big emotional scene (and I do count that as a big emotional scene given how few emotional scenes the game actually had) shouldn't rely on a 1 in nth chance you're actually going to care about the choice,

[Ashagar]

Hmm because games and fantasy novels do tend to have at least a enemy you can't kill further. The game pretty much makes it clear both in lore and dialogue that you have a snowball chance of defeating a demon who makes its home next to the black city where even other demons fear to go and that has been feasting on the nightmares of the world since the first blight if not since the dawn of dreaming.

[Nimlowyn]

The problem with that quest is the choice is dependent on choices made in previous games/the DA keep.

 

I really love Alistair, and a choice between him and my Hawke would have been devastating, only in my game Alistair was King (and disappointingly only showed up for about 5 seconds in the game), so my choice was between Hawke and some dude I'd just met and had minimal interaction with. That was an easy choice to make (Hawke lived, obviously).

 

A games big emotional scene (and I do count that as a big emotional scene given how few emotional scenes the game actually had) shouldn't rely on a 1 in nth chance you're actually going to care about the choice,

A solid point. I was only going by my personal experience. I imagine if Stroud were there instead of Alistair, Stroud would get chosen every time, hands down. He's cool but we're not that close. As it is, I have one world state I'm interested in playing, so I'll always get the devastation of "Hawke or Alistair?".

 

I don't know what Bioware could have done differently here; Stroud is the only guy that makes sense in certain world states. I think overall its still very well done, though I concede I'm biased given my experience.

 

 

Honestly it was a poorly written scene. You and your band of 4(6 with Hawke and Grey Warden), really couldn't take a giant spider demon? Your group slay Dragons, Demons, Darkspawn, Bandits, Mages, Templars etc...On a daily basis, Hawke faced down Dragons, Demons, Darkspawn, Bandits, Mages, and Templars. If the Warden was Alistar or Loghain they faced down an Archdemon, Dragons, Darkspawn, Bandits, Mages, Templars, Golems, etc..

 

Seriously telling me that I couldn't kill the Nightmare spider? The whole "Oh the exit was closing you didn't have time" is dumb, I spent a good 30 mins going back and forth exploring that section of the fade. Ample time for the exit to close, but no due to extraordinary writing the exit was only going to close the moment the spider came back.

 

Going to have to disagree with you there. The party may be competent, but they aren't invisible, and with a rift closing, they're in a tight situation. I personally don't have an issue with it. I'm sorry you didn't like it. 

[stonerbishop]

I really think you should have had the option of trying to fight it, where it promptly 1 - shots everyone in you party.

Game over screen.

Then when you reload, it's like, well, ...sh1t, sorry hawk you have to cover stroud and me running, screaming like little girls (not that there is anything wrong with that)

[stonerbishop]

Actually, I take it back. It shouldn't 1 -shot you. It should chain cast Horror so you can't control your party and hundreds of spiders slowly pick away at you health. That's on casual.

On nightmare, there's only one little spider and you have to wait for it to kill everyone over the course of 10 minutes