1081 réponses à ce sujet

[wistful81]

Sorry I haven't been on much,real life and all that jazz. 

 

Your ship is awful! It completely ignores the fact they despise each other.

I'm not sure why I am responding to this, clearly I'm a masochist.

 

How exactly do they despise each other? I would say that Cassandra is anything but despising of Varric. How many times did she try to draw Varric out and ask him questions about Kirkwall? It sounded like she was trying smooth things over with him. That just isn't something most people would try to do with someone they despise. The fact that she loves and reads his romance serial should, again, tell you she did not despise him. As someone who has read many romances over the years, it would be near impossible for me to want to read a romance from someone I hate and despise.Granted, Varric is a tougher nut to crack(though writing said serial for someone you despise, is something I couldn't see doing either), but as many people have said over the course of the this thread, their banter towards the end is not two people hating each other. I know, this means very little. I know this will not change your mind, but I don't think this ship so out of the realm of possibility that some seem to think it is, but to each their own.

 

 

Anyone read any really great DAI fanfic that's NOT Cass/Varric? (Preferably nothing that's Bull or Solas centric?)

 

I am so sorry, those are my favorite characters to read fanfic about (fem trev/solas is my absolute favorite) and also Blackwall. So I prolly can't give ya any recs.

 

 

*snip*

 

That is amazing Morie. You make me wish I could draw.

[OrilliaOrange]

Ooh actually I just saw this on my dash, and has anyone else read this analysis of Varric's character in DA2? It's about his status as an unreliable narrator, specifically as it pertains to Cassandra, and why he says what he does to her about Hawke, and what Kirkwall's been through. I found it very interesting to read!

 

http://spacetango.tu...at-your-service

 

@wistful81 I am starting to think we need a specific response to just copy and paste when people show up to tell us we're wrong. I quite like your response. Short, polite, and accurate. What the hell does it matter if we ship something they don't, anyways?

[rda]

I'll point to one thing that was too preachy-nasty liberal for me.

First, some background: I'm older (not super old, ok?) went to religious schools, spent some time in the military, and now live in the South (USA). My current RL friends are all married with kids. I'm a live and let live kind of person, but I haven't been exposed to an awful lot re: different kids of sexuality. WTF do I know about transsexuals?

Nothing.

So, in the game I was like...why is this woman dressing like a dude? Or is that just bad graphics and a terrible VA? Why is everyone calling her "him"? I don't get it.

Well, there's finally a point where you can question the character about it, and I did, and then Krem gets all sh!tty with me, and I'm like WHAT? Where's all the vitriol coming from? Apparently, I should know all about transsexualism IRL, and seamlessly transfer that knowledge to fantasy world Thedas (and why should I do that? Shouldn't Thedas be different? At the very least, I shouldn't be assuming it's the same just because.)

So Krem (or someone) could have been nice and explained it, or they could take me to task and assume I was a horrible bigot. They chose the latter option.

If Krem was just like, "Actually, I identify as a man, which is why I ask everyone to call me 'him'," I'd be like "Okay, whatevs, moving on." Instead, it's almost like Gaider was, through Krem, responding to RL bigoted people who hate transsexuals and was taking that out in me, the player, for no apparent reason.

Talk about immersion breaking. It also made me hate the character of Krem for being a jerk to me. On the plus side, it made the IronBull side quest decision much easier.

[rda]

@wistful81 I am starting to think we need a specific response to just copy and paste when people show up to tell us we're wrong. I quite like your response. Short, polite, and accurate. What the hell does it matter if we ship something they don't, anyways?

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the people who get the most wrapped around the axle about Cass and Varric are dudes who have sexual fantasies of Cass and are weirdly protective of her having any relationship besides with "their" Inquisitor.

And, I'm probably a bad person for saying that...but just my observation given the small sample size.

[OrilliaOrange]

I'll point to one thing that was too preachy-nasty liberal for me.

First, some background: I'm older (not super old, ok?) went to religious schools, spent some time in the military, and now live in the South (USA). My current RL friends are all married with kids. I'm a live and let live kind of person, but I haven't been exposed to an awful lot re: different kids of sexuality. WTF do I know about transsexuals?

Nothing.

So, in the game I was like...why is this woman dressing like a dude? Or is that just bad graphics and a terrible VA? Why is everyone calling her "him"? I don't get it.

Well, there's finally a point where you can question the character about it, and I did, and then Krem gets all sh!tty with me, and I'm like WHAT? Where's all the vitriol coming from? Apparently, I should know all about transsexualism IRL, and seamlessly transfer that knowledge to fantasy world Thedas (and why should I do that? Shouldn't Thedas be different? At the very least, I shouldn't be assuming it's the same just because.)

So Krem (or someone) could have been nice and explained it, or they could take me to task and assume I was a horrible bigot. They chose the latter option.

If Krem was just like, "Actually, I identify as a man, which is why I ask everyone to call me 'him'," I'd be like "Okay, whatevs, moving on." Instead, it's almost like Gaider was, through Krem, responding to RL bigoted people who hate transsexuals and was taking that out in me, the player, for no apparent reason.

Talk about immersion breaking. It also made me hate the character of Krem for being a jerk to me. On the plus side, it made the IronBull side quest decision much easier.

 

I didn't find that, with Krem's story? It may simply be that you and I hear different things.

 

Are you referring to the dialogue option "Why do you pass?" where your Inquisitor asks Krem "Why did you decide to live as a man?" and he replies "I didn't decide anything. I've been like this my whole life."

 

The writers discuss the motivation behind Krem's character here: http://blog.bioware....s-krem-aclassi/

 

As for asking Krem about his past, and why he lives the way he does- the question is phrased in a way that is a little rude. Krem is a man. Asking why he decides to pass isn't polite or respectful. It would be like you asking a person who is gay why they choose to be gay, or a cis person why they're cis. They don't choose. They are. Knowledge of gender identity can crop up at a very early age, so asking Krem why he decided to pass as a man is like saying "Why don't you want to live opposite everything you've known to be true about yourself since childhood?"

 

I had a good explanation from a friend of mine about the subject: “what if I, a cis woman, was constantly told in every conversation I ever had in my entire life that I was a man, referred up as a man, and yelled at and mocked for trying to have people to please refer to you as a woman, because that’s hurtful and disrespectful and can negatively impact your self esteem.”

 

ETA: It isn't necessary to "pass" to be trans, either. You can be genderfluid, nonbinary, etc, or not experience dysphoria and feel the need to? As far as I can understand, it depends on the person and their situation. 

 

_{i am really hoping i did this explanation justice and it's not offensive? let me know please and i'll correct myself.}

[Taokan]

Speaking as the transmasculine friend, I should also add (which I forgot to say when I was alerted as to this thread) is that this is a question trans people receive constantly, often in a very derisive tone, or (which can be worse in many ways) a fascinated one, so that even friendly inquiries can inspire feelings of discomfort and shame, and the way the inquisitor framed it was extremely offensive. I bristled on Krem's behalf when I heard that question. There is hardly one single question you can ask Krem that didn't make me wince. So. Its both like and unlike asking a gay person why they're gay, because that isn't a question any but the most pigheaded would ask, while many well meaning people would ask this question, and completely miss the hurt said phrasing would cause. So. Krem is not being unreasonable. He is hurt and tired and uncomfortable.

[Merela]

I'm not sure why I am responding to this, clearly I'm a masochist.

 

How exactly do they despise each other? I would say that Cassandra is anything but despising of Varric. How many times did she try to draw Varric out and ask him questions about Kirkwall? It sounded like she was trying smooth things over with him. That just isn't something most people would try to do with someone they despise. The fact that she loves and reads his romance serial should, again, tell you she did not despise him. As someone who has read many romances over the years, it would be near impossible for me to want to read a romance from someone I hate and despise.Granted, Varric is a tougher nut to crack(though writing said serial for someone you despise, is something I couldn't see doing either), but as many people have said over the course of the this thread, their banter towards the end is not two people hating each other. I know, this means very little. I know this will not change your mind, but I don't think this ship so out of the realm of possibility that some seem to think it is, but to each their own.

 

I might be a masochist as well (I just finished to watch the Berserk anime after all), so let's talk!

 

I agree that Cassandra doesn't despise Varric. If anything, her part in their banters shows she's more than willing to mend their relationships. She admire the guy's work and as an avid reader, I know I would be unable to enjoy the work of an author I hate the guts of. However, Varric is not "a tougher nut to crack". Varric spends plenty of their banters mocking her and belligtling her.

 

• Cassandra: Have you heard from any of your Kirkwall associates Varric?
• Varric: You're asking me? So you don't read my letters?
• Cassandra: You're no longer my prisoner. Much as you like to act like it.
• Varric: Yet I still get all the suspicion.
• Cassandra: I am not without sympathy. Especially given recent events.
• Varric: Why Seeker I will never accuse you of having sympathy! By the way I tend to refer to my "associates" as friends. Maybe you're not familiar with the concept.
• Cassandra: (sigh)

 

• Varric: You know Seeker, for someone with your tact and charisma you assembled a... pretty good little Inquisition. I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming you didn't drag them all here by force.
• Cassandra: How kind of you.
• Varric: I mean, you never know, you could kidnap Ruffles and she'd be too polite to say anything.
• Cassandra: Leliana recruited Josephine. They're... friends.
• Varric: So there's a rational explanation after all. Just when I thought you had layers.

 

• Cassandra: Varric I'm sorry. About earlier. With the table.
• Varric: Beg your pardon? I didn't catch that Seeker.
• Cassandra: I am sorry.
• Varric: Oh! I'll mark this on my calendar—Cassandra has a feeling!
• Cassandra: Perhaps not that sorry.

You call that "being a tough nut", I call that being an *******. At that times, Varric clearly hasn't forgiven Cass for her interrogation back in DA2. Even when he writes the last chapter of Sword and Shields, he takes the opportunity for mocking her about having no friends. Like Galyan who, you know, died at the Conclave... Their relationships does change by the end though and they almost reach the Vitriolic Buds step, and I'm glad they did. However, for this ship to work, Varric's feeling for Bianca would have to change (and I doubt they ever will. He "always sees" her, as he says at the end of the 'Well, sh*t' quest, and Bianca herself reproaches him for clinging to the past), he would have to be into humans (which isn't the case) and he wouldn't have to shot the very idea of him and Cass being together down when Dorian brings the topic up.

 

• Dorian: So Varric, are you and Cassandra... ?
• Varric: What? No! Why would you even ask that?
• Dorian: Truly? Bizarre.
• Cassandra: I'm right here!
• Dorian: See? She's right there. What are you waiting for?
• Varric: Just because two people dislike each other doesn't mean they're about to kiss, Sparkler.
• Dorian: Not according to your books.
• Varric: Don't mistake me for that hack who wrote Hard in Hightown II. I can spell.

If only of those things were different, that ship could work. Hell, I would even be an active member of that thread, posting crappy fanfics about the two. Except they aren't, and thus for me and others, Tethragast is nothing but OOC fantasies - because it actively disregards the characters' opinions on the matter. Which is the part me and others in the Cassandra thread are fiercely pitted against, believe it or not. We want our dear Cass and Varric to act in character and not OOC, nothing else.

 

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: the people who get the most wrapped around the axle about Cass and Varric are dudes who have sexual fantasies of Cass and are weirdly protective of her having any relationship besides with "their" Inquisitor.

And, I'm probably a bad person for saying that...but just my observation given the small sample size.

 

And I could say that, given the small sample size I've been observating here, the people who ship Cass and Varric are girls who have sexual fantasies of Varric and are weirdly frustrated of him being unromancable with "their" Inquisitor so they put him with Cass because it's the second best thing they can come with. But I will not, because I would likely be wrong. A word to the wise...

[rda]

Could you please be referring to me when you say girl? Because, thank you. (Yay, it's been a decade at least since someone called me a girl!)

I can provide examples of some of the most anti-Varric/Cass posters writing porny Gary-Sue-ish fanfic with their Inquisitor.

Notice I didn't say everyone who doesn't ship Varric/Cass (even in my original post on this) but the rabid anti-mancers. You know, the incoherent "ARRRRGH your ship is wrong and it sucks and ::rage babble:: "

I wouldn't put you in that category, but it's certainly your right to get offended.

And as for stereotypes...well, yeah, they're not always right, but they're usually right often enough we can talk about the phenomenon in general.

[OrilliaOrange]

It's all down to interpretation, I suppose. You see antagonism, we see- well. Varric kind of being a dick, but there still being the possibility of their becoming friends. It's not that far a leap, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time a romance was based on disliking someone, learning that they're not entirely assholes, becoming friends, and then possibly indulging in a relationship. 

 

Thank you though, for presenting your opinions with points that illustrate your feelings on it, rather than dismissing us all as mad. 

[rda]

Speaking as the transmasculine friend, I should also add (which I forgot to say when I was alerted as to this thread) is that this is a question trans people receive constantly, often in a very derisive tone, or (which can be worse in many ways) a fascinated one, so that even friendly inquiries can inspire feelings of discomfort and shame, and the way the inquisitor framed it was extremely offensive. I bristled on Krem's behalf when I heard that question. There is hardly one single question you can ask Krem that didn't make me wince. So. Its both like and unlike asking a gay person why they're gay, because that isn't a question any but the most pigheaded would ask, while many well meaning people would ask this question, and completely miss the hurt said phrasing would cause. So. Krem is not being unreasonable. He is hurt and tired and uncomfortable.

A few points:

1. We're all asked questions that make us uncomfortable, often over things that are essentially out of our control. In our responses, we can be dickish or we can be polite. How we choose to respond often informs people's opinions of us, regardless if we were "justified" in being dickish.
2. No, none of the Inquisitor's responses were good. It was either "Look at me, I'm an insensitive bigot" or "Yay, go Krem!" This, though, ties into my point that Gaider's real-life liberalism was showing, even though transsexualism was never before dealt with in-game and I have no idea what the deal is in Thedas. Also, as a real-life person who doesn't fully understand all the preferred nomenclature...why put me in a situation where I have to pick up on the subtext or the character is going to be a jerk to me?

[Merela]

It's all down to interpretation, I suppose. You see antagonism, we see- well. Varric kind of being a dick, but there still being the possibility of their becoming friends. It's not that far a leap, and it certainly wouldn't be the first time a romance was based on disliking someone, learning that they're not entirely assholes, becoming friends, and then possibly indulging in a relationship. 

 

Thank you though, for presenting your opinions with points that illustrate your feelings on it, rather than dismissing us all as mad. 

 

There is the possibility of them being friends, yes. I actually wish them to become friends, because Cass needs those desperatly (all the ones she had are either dead or went missing and are likely dead as well). But sometimes friends reminds friends. And once again, Bianca being Varric's only love is the grain of sand in the gears. and he still isn't attracted to humans. Would you indulge in a relationship with someone you're not attracted while still being in love with another, even if you're friends?

 

Could you please be referring to me when you say girl? Because, thank you. (Yay, it's been a decade at least since someone called me a girl!)

I can provide examples of some of the most anti-Varric/Cass posters writing porny Gary-Sue-ish fanfic with their Inquisitor.

Notice I didn't say everyone who doesn't ship Varric/Cass (even in my original post on this) but the rabid anti-mancers. You know, the incoherent "ARRRRGH your ship is wrong and it sucks and ::rage babble:: "

I wouldn't put you in that category, but it's certainly your right to get offended.

And as for stereotypes...well, yeah, they're not always right, but they're usually right often enough we can talk about the phenomenon in general.

 

And I am no "dude", so we're even. And I have plenty of OOC fanfics of Cass and Varric being involved into a romantic relationships, so I'll say we're all good.

[OrilliaOrange]

There is the possibility of them being friends, yes. I actually wish them to become friends, because Cass needs those desperatly (all the ones she had are either dead or went missing and are likely dead as well). But sometimes friends reminds friends. And once again, Bianca being Varric's only love is the grain of sand in the gears. and he still isn't attracted to humans. Would you indulge in a relationship with someone you're not attracted while still being in love with another, even if you're friends?

 

 

And I am no "dude", so we're even. And I have plenty of OOC fanfics of Cass and Varric being involved into a romantic relationships, so I'll say we're all good.

 

I agree that Cassandra could use friends, and particularly one that would balance her out well. 

Bianca is a bit of a rough spot for me? I do enjoy her character, but I don't enjoy the "We only see each other once every couple years at great risk to us both, our love is so pure and true" thing that seems to be happening with them? I preferred the comic, where it's clear Varric did love Bianca but lost her, and to me it seemed that he'd accepted it and moved on. 

The "no attraction to humans" seems to get ignored a LOT, and it's not just with us. I've seen people ship Varric/assorted Hawkes. I think there might be a Varric/Isabela fic out there somewhere? Not to say that we're absolved of this because everyone else does it, but it does seem that it's the least respected part of anything Varric's said, which is sort of an interesting thing. 

[Merela]

I agree that Cassandra could use friends, and particularly one that would balance her out well. 

Bianca is a bit of a rough spot for me? I do enjoy her character, but I don't enjoy the "We only see each other once every couple years at great risk to us both, our love is so pure and true" thing that seems to be happening with them? I preferred the comic, where it's clear Varric did love Bianca but lost her, and to me it seemed that he'd accepted it and moved on. 

The "no attraction to humans" seems to get ignored a LOT, and it's not just with us. I've seen people ship Varric/assorted Hawkes. I think there might be a Varric/Isabela fic out there somewhere? Not to say that we're absolved of this because everyone else does it, but it does seem that it's the least respected part of anything Varric's said, which is sort of an interesting thing. 

 

I'm quite curious how Varric would balance Cass well? Because he's her favorite writer? If anything it puts him in a "position of authority" toward her, hardly an equal. Because he's Andrastrian could work, though I doubt Cass would take him blaspheming the Maker that well on the long run. For all its blatant flaws, Cass needs the Chantry in her life (or at the very least its teachings).

 

Eh, Bibi is a rought spot for plenty of people, is she not? I totally agree the relationships between she and Varric is unhealthy, for the two of them (because weirdly a lot of people pities poor Vava, but also diabolizes Bianca for having the cake and eating it too, when the situation seems more complex than that.) I prefered the comic version as well, but as far as the Varric in Inquisition is concerned, he's neither ready nor willing to move on. And you know the idiom, yes? There are no one so deaf as he who will not hear.

 

I've seen people shipping Varric with a lot of people as well, and it's still making an OOC version of Varric if he returns those feelings, might they come from Hawke, Isabella or Anders (...yeah I'm sure someone in the pit of hell ships those two ). Hell I'm still sore aboutF!Hawke/Vava, but it is at it is. Also I agree that "Other do it to" is never a good argument anyway. I had an examplr about people not stopping at traffic circles, but I think I'm going to skip it. I'm tired and writing is becoming difficult for tonight.

 

Though I definitely enjoy your discussion.

[SmilesJA]

Well, I can't really see Cassandra as a pregnant warrior in the front line. She seems to be a person that takes responsibility seriously and that would also include taking care of her unborn. I actually don't consider going to war when you're pregnant as sexy, smart or exciting. I think it's pretty stupid, and if not for the unborn child then because a pregnant woman will never be as fast or prepared physically... It's different when you have to defend yourself or the family, I guess. Not sure if Cass would keep a child but probably yes, even if it was from a ONS (because being responsible and all that).

 

Thanks for the link to the fic, rda! I can't relate to anime as well... different strokes for different folks, I don't _have_ to watch or read it .

 

I think it'll make more sense if Cassandra went into battle not knowing she's pregnant, rather than knowing she's pregnant and charging in anyway. She has a sense of responsibility.

[OrilliaOrange]

I'm quite curious how Varric would balance Cass well? Because he's her favorite writer? If anything it puts him in a "position of authority" toward her, hardly an equal. Because he's Andrastrian could work, though I doubt Cass would take him blaspheming the Maker that well on the long run. For all its blatant flaws, Cass needs the Chantry in her life (or at the very least its teachings).

 

Eh, Bibi is a rought spot for plenty of people, is she not? I totally agree the relationships between she and Varric is unhealthy, for the two of them (because weirdly a lot of people pities poor Vava, but also diabolizes Bianca for having the cake and eating it too, when the situation seems more complex than that.) I prefered the comic version as well, but as far as the Varric in Inquisition is concerned, he's neither ready nor willing to move on. And you know the idiom, yes? There are no one so deaf as he who will not hear.

 

I've seen people shipping Varric with a lot of people as well, and it's still making an OOC version of Varric if he returns those feelings, might they come from Hawke, Isabella or Anders (...yeah I'm sure someone in the pit of hell ships those two ). Hell I'm still sore aboutF!Hawke/Vava, but it is at it is. Also I agree that "Other do it to" is never a good argument anyway. I had an examplr about people not stopping at traffic circles, but I think I'm going to skip it. I'm tired and writing is becoming difficult for tonight.

 

Though I definitely enjoy your discussion.

 

I don't think that his being her favourite author would balance it out well- Cassandra's proved perfectly willing to kidnap and interrogate him, not to mention take a swing at Varric when she loses her temper. Being her favourite author (assuming she was a fan of his prior to DA2) doesn't prevent Cassandra from treating him like a suspect. 

 

I meant more along the lines of someone who won't take ****, someone with a different viewpoint. Cassandra is brash, hot headed, and self righteous, tends to bash straight through things. Varric meanwhile, is more cold blooded. Not to say he doesn't care. More that he's more willing to lie, cheat, and steal his way around things. He likes the sneakier solution. 

 

Andrastrianism is a good point. I've always found it interesting that, should you ask Cassandra about her feelings on being the Divine, and what she might change about the Chantry, she brings up Varric. She claims that despite his blasphemies, he worships Andraste, but would never set foot in a Chantry, when that is the first place he ought to feel safe and comforted, and all the things Cassandra herself feels about it. 

 

God. Yeah, Bianca and Varric seem to wind up depicted as Bioware's Romeo and Juliet. I would be more interested in them if they had the relationship Vivienne had with Bastien. Everyone in Orlais knows she's his mistress, probably even his wife does and it doesn't seem to be a problem. Of course, they don't have the various Dwarven guilds and noble families threatening death and dismemberment should they meet. I might like her more if they just DID something with that relationship. End it, move it on, anything. The stasis is boring, and unhealthy. 

 

Then again, I wonder. We know Varric is considered an unreliable narrator, and he convinced Cassandra he was telling the truth about Hawke and Kirkwall. So who's to say he hasn't been lying to the Inquisitor? He certainly has no reason to tell them the truth, since they aren't really friends the way he and Hawke are friends. Makes one wonder what's true and what's not, when it comes to Varric. Do you trust what he says about himself? Even he admits he's prone to extravagant lies. 

 

"Everyone does it" is probably the worst argument I can make on that subject. It is possible Varric wasn't telling the truth about liking humans (going back to the "Varric as an unreliable narrator" thing). 

 

I definitely enjoyed this discussion as well, thank you for being so polite. Have a good night!

[OrilliaOrange]

I think it'll make more sense if Cassandra went into battle not knowing she's pregnant, rather than knowing she's pregnant and charging in anyway. She has a sense of responsibility.

 

Agreed. The only way she'd end up in battle would be if she didn't know, or felt she didn't have any other choice in the matter. 

[Hunter111]

. If everyone is going to fight and argue like this, I'd rather the thread and ship die. That was...unpleasant. This thread should be for us, the people who support the ship. Not a bunch of jerks attacking us for no reason. No one from here goes into their ships and attacks them.

[SmilesJA]

. If everyone is going to fight and argue like this, I'd rather the thread and ship die. That was...unpleasant. This thread should be for us, the people who support the ship. Not a bunch of jerks attacking us for no reason. No one from here goes into their ships and attacks them.

 

Then ignore the trolls, don't let them ruin your enjoyment of your favorite ship.

[Hunter111]

Then ignore the trolls, don't let them ruin your enjoyment of your favorite ship.

I appreciate that this is objectively good advice; unfortunately I've never been able to ignore nasty people.

I just don't understand what's up with all the people who don't like the ship posting here. I'm just tired of people being so mean. I thought it would stop, but it just never does, does it?

Whatever. Hardly anyone posts here anymore with any regularity anyway. I guess certain things just run their course. Take care, everyone.

[OrilliaOrange]

You can't let people who disagree with you get in the way of your enjoyment of things. Enjoy what you do, and to hell with the rest of it. Regardless of what it is (book, game, movie, tv show, fanfic, etc), people are going to have an an opinion about it. Some of them will like it. Some people won't. Some people will like the parts of it you like, ship the characters you like, etc. Some people won't. 

 

Does it really matter? If someone out there doesn't like the same thing you do, does it impact how you feel about the thing you love? 

 

Let it be. In the end, it's not important if everyone agrees with you. 

 

If people drop in and decide to tell you they don't think you're right, go right ahead and have a discussion about it if you want. But don't assume that it's a personal attack. In the same vein, don't attack people who don't agree with you.

 

It isn't Highlander. There isn't one right way to look at things, when it comes to fan interpretations. There's the canon, and then there's what you as a fan bring to it. Different people bring different things. We've seen that ourselves in this thread. Some people have strong opinions about what would and wouldn't be likely, and some people believe completely different things. It happens. 

 

Let's just enjoy our ship, and not worry too much about what other people think of the things we do love.  

[Master Warder Z_]

Sorry I haven't been on much,real life and all that jazz.

I'm not sure why I am responding to this

Makes two of us.

Despite viewing this as nonsense I only responded in that fashion for humor.

Oh and I hate to poke holes in fanon logic but to me even late game their relation is still firmly within the bounds of antagonism.

Which you know comes from Varric being a ass to her 90% of the game.

And he just wrote that continuation for kicks, specifically at Cassandra's expense. He even said as much walking off after having given it to her.

So even his quote unquote peace offering after lying to the Seeker for months was a barb at her expense.

[Hunter111]

You can't let people who disagree with you get in the way of your enjoyment of things. Enjoy what you do, and to hell with the rest of it. Regardless of what it is (book, game, movie, tv show, fanfic, etc), people are going to have an an opinion about it. Some of them will like it. Some people won't. Some people will like the parts of it you like, ship the characters you like, etc. Some people won't. 
 
Does it really matter? If someone out there doesn't like the same thing you do, does it impact how you feel about the thing you love? 
 
Let it be. In the end, it's not important if everyone agrees with you. 
 
If people drop in and decide to tell you they don't think you're right, go right ahead and have a discussion about it if you want. But don't assume that it's a personal attack. In the same vein, don't attack people who don't agree with you.
 
It isn't Highlander. There isn't one right way to look at things, when it comes to fan interpretations. There's the canon, and then there's what you as a fan bring to it. Different people bring different things. We've seen that ourselves in this thread. Some people have strong opinions about what would and wouldn't be likely, and some people believe completely different things. It happens. 
 
Let's just enjoy our ship, and not worry too much about what other people think of the things we do love.

Yeah, I get you, but it's not the fact people have different opinions that bothers me. It's the fact nasty people from the Cass thread come in here to antagonize us for no reason. Why come in here when you don't like the fandom just to argue with us in a nasty way?

And just when it simmers down, they come back. Seriously, all those questions Merela had were answered multiple times in this thread already, in the first 10-15 pages. But i don't think they care about the answers so much as putting us down.

It's like, they're having a bad day or something so they come in here, read our posts, find something to get riled up about, and attack us.

And not enough nice people post anymore to make it worth my while to put up with the nasty ones.

Hopefully that makes more sense.

[AWTEW]

So, who thinks Cassandra would give Bianca a thrashing over her treatment of Varric? I imagine she would slap her, if the dwarf pushed her luck.

[morie91]

So, who thinks Cassandra would give Bianca a thrashing over her treatment of Varric? I imagine she would slap her, if the dwarf pushed her luck.

 

ohohohoho ;u; i'd even pay to see cass slapping bianca xD and if she said something as nasty as the thing she says to quizzies, it would make it all better

 

... i'm horrible, aren't i? ;p

[AlleluiaElizabeth]

@ Hunter111: This, honestly, isn't nasty to me.  Maybe its just my previous fandom experience. (I was an active Zutarian in the ATLA fandom back during the show's run to give anyone who understands that reference an idea.) I can see how you could believe Master Warder Z's first response was such. I, personally, took his response as the joke he apparently intended it to be at the time. *shrugs*

 

@The "Varric despises Cass" camp: There's a lot of banter/interaction where Varric isn't being an ass to Cassandra, too. For example, he comforts her in the prologue when she expresses her worry for Leliana's safety as you make your way to the bridge basecamp.

 

I understand the "Varric is being an ass to Cassandra" thing, I do. I experienced that feeling, as well. The first time Varric sniped at her while she was trying to be civil, I let it go. There was bad blood and I know they have to work it out. The 2nd time, my teeth ground a bit. The third banter, I wanted an option wheel to come up so I could tell him to cool it. He was indeed being a child there, as far as I was concerned.  For me this all happened in the Hinterlands and the Storm Coast.  By the time I obtained Skyhold, that banter had run its course.

 

Then I had the Hawke fight.

 

But then they seemed to mellow out. I got banter of Varric making her laugh by saying she can go through the countryside punching dragons while he's a city boy who can't handle hiking. That was a purposefully self-deprecating joke he'd made for her.

 

'd visit locations or experience events and Cass and Varric would comment on events together, seemingly of one mind. Usually this was stuff like "Glad we could help those people." or w/e, which isn't a surprise given their personalities. But still. Its them getting along.

 

Then the book thing happened. I saw Varric's reactions as playfully teasing Cass about Swords & Shields, at the worst. Ribbing her, and maybe seeing how many [Disgusted noise.] he can get out of her during the game, seems to become a past time of his, cus he ends up doing it a lot. But its not throwing actual barbs at her that were meant to wound.

 

That good-natured teasing is what *I* was doing to her, too, by even telling him about the book in the first place. I love Cass. She's my fave. And I couldn't pass that teasing opportunity up, it was too good.

 

Varric's "Totally worth it." at the end was, I thought, a happy statement on his part.  He'd gone through the trouble of writing another chapter in a serial he didn't actually enjoy writing all that much. I know that would be difficult to do, personally. Plus, he considers that serial some of his worst writing (for some reason) and that is an added roadblock to a writer when coming up with new stuff. I thought he said it was worth it cus: a) he got to tease her about something (cus I'm fairly certain at this point its just something he likes to do) and b.) he was pleased with her reaction to the serial and the fact that she's a fan. Pleased to the point of slightly smug, yes, but still pleased nonetheless.

 

And the idea that he wasn't being cruel to her about the book is just reinforced by their later party banter, where they discuss his plot choices and are both candid about their opinions. That was a very friendly banter, IMO. 

 

And on another note, Varric's callout to Cass if she falls in battle is very concerned. And that's from start to finish in the game. Companion KO calls don't have to be concerned or friendly. In DA2, some of the companions would sound very concerned for Hawke going down, but then kinda meh when someone they weren't necessarily friends with dropped. The same is true in Inquisition, I believe, though I haven't gotten enough companion KOs to hear them all. All I know is Varric yells "Seeker!" in a pretty conspicuously distraught tone of voice if she drops. I don't mean anything shippy by that, I just mean that he does not sound like he hates her.

 

Varric doesn't despise Cassandra at any point in the game, IMO. He's angry with her, he misinterprets and butts heads with her, but there are also instances he shows her concern and agreement. And he certainly doesn't despise her by the end of the game.

 

EDIT: W00t 40 pages!