I was with you, until that last sentenceWe are Legion.
But seriously. For being a one-off character, Cullen got some pretty decent development over the past ten years. I liked it. Fangirls or no, Bioware did a great job with him. I think they did an equally good job of acknowledging Leliana's "death."
cullen Surprised me though.
Because other fans actually like her being in it? There are just as many (if not more) players that WANT to retcon their choices in past games.
You can argue that all the characters can be replaced if the writers try hard enough (or are clever enough), but that's really missing the point.
People love their Bioware companions and want them to come back as often as possible.
In game design, "choice and consequences" only need to be strong enough to engage the player into thinking about them while playing. They don't need to decapitate the player or haunt the player through multiple games, even "dark fantasy" games like Witcher doesn't do that.
I think the difference is that Tali and Garrus could be killed off. You literally either have to have a low ems ending or refusal to kill Liara.
Death doesn't matter really, everyone can die in ME2. And in ME3 Tali has a graceful death.
Cuz they needed someone as popular as Cassandra to compete with for the divine role. Pro-Templar are the minority and so most people would easily choose Cassandra over Vivienne. They needed a third option to make the option more difficult. Though, I wish we had gotten a new character as a spy master. Also hell no to whoever said Leliana is anything like Liara, Liara is shoved onto us and forced to take on so many missions. Leliana can be ignored through the whole game without a problem. I'd say Alistair is the biggest writers pet.
I was with you, until that last sentence
Hah, that's okay; we don't have to agree on everything. *hugs*
To be honest, I think the vast majority of players did not kill her. She may be a writer favorite but she's also a fan favorite. I thought she was great, and she was bff's with my Warden. To not include her because 1% of the players killed her seems like a dumb idea. No, there wasn't anything a different spymaster couldn't have done, but I thought it was interesting to see the changes in her over 10 years. She's not the Leliana my Warden knew, and I while I can't say I liked the change, I believe that it was those years with the Divine that changed her, not necessarily my Inquisitor or Warden's actions.
This whole "writer's pet" argument is kinda getting ridiculous. I cannot think of a single Bioware major character without huge faults. There are people out there who are rich and have a happy relationships and so on... Are they "God's pet" then? Its simply a sort of variance among the characters.
I agree, very few probably did kill her. As much as I hate the ******, I didn't even kill her. On my Canon play through anyway, LOL. But damn, it was still pretty lazy.Hah, that's okay; we don't have to agree on everything. *hugs*
To be honest, I think the vast majority of players did not kill her. She may be a writer favorite but she's also a fan favorite. I thought she was great, and she was bff's with my Warden. To not include her because 1% of the players killed her seems like a dumb idea. No, there wasn't anything a different spymaster couldn't have done, but I thought it was interesting to see the changes in her over 10 years. She's not the Leliana my Warden knew, and I while I can't say I liked the change, I believe that it was those years with the Divine that changed her, not necessarily my Inquisitor or Warden's actions.
This whole "writer's pet" argument is kinda getting ridiculous. I cannot think of a single Bioware major character without huge faults. There are people out there who are rich and have a happy relationships and so on... Are they "God's pet" then? Its simply a sort of variance among the characters.
Not rly that isn't being writers pet this is being only this is character that is happy.Writers pet is character writer overuse and shove into players (not only players) throat showing obvious favoritism of that character pretty much there are also small things in her case like note about crows how they love her when they hate everyone else or game trying tell us that she is super genius...
>brought back from the Dead
>has been in all three games
>pals around with Divine
>our spymaster who goes around kicking ass
>everyone in universe likes her
>practically omniscient
>not a writer's pet
>brought back from the Dead
>has been in all three games
>pals around with Divine
>our spymaster who goes around kicking ass
>everyone in universe likes her
>practically omniscient
>not a writer's pet
She is barely present in DA2, needs a DLC to be really in the game more than 5 seconds. She is an optional companion in DAO.
She is roughly dead in 1% of playthroughs, because before being anything else she is a fan favorite.
The divine is her old friend back in valone chantry so when she became the Divine she invited Leliana to be her left hand.
She has always been skilled in death and deception, its nothing new.
I didn't get the vibe that "everyone likes her". Simply put no one hates her. Not hating =/= liking.
she is not anymore a writer's pet than some other characters.
I'm glad she is. I like to see the prominent characters who are living in the same timeline come together to help when the world goes to ****. *cough Warden cough*
Also, a game where in the end you choose the next Divine and Leliana is the one who was most personal with the last one makes sense, don't you think? You can encourage her to fulfill Divine Justinia's visions of how the world should be if you were careful. I think it makes a lot of sense she was here and a prominent character.
Cassandra notes that Leliana remembers a different Divine Justinia.
Yes because she knew Justinia as revered mother Dorothea way before she became divine. Justinia gave Leliana the orders to do the things she herself couldn't do but were necessary. I bet Cassandra didn't even know about them.
Also, a game where in the end you choose the next Divine and Leliana is the one who was most personal with the last one makes sense, don't you think? You can encourage her to fulfill Divine Justinia's visions of how the world should be if you were careful. I think it makes a lot of sense she was here and a prominent character.
Cassandra notes that Leliana remembers a different Divine Justinia.
Meh. Still she cared for her a lot that she had a note to be delivered to her when she died and her "spirit" apologized to her in the fade. I think it's safe to say her views are as legitimate as Cass's.
Divine Justinia was also smart enough to realize she couldn't just handwave away the Circles and centuries of prejudice. Otherwise she would have done it.Yes because she knew Justinia as revered mother Dorothea way before she became divine. Justinia gave Leliana the orders to do the things she herself couldn't do but were necessary. I bet Cassandra didn't even know about them.
Nothing says writer's pet like being used for tissue harvesting if the bad guy wins.
Divine Justinia was also smart enough to realize she couldn't just handwave away the Circles and centuries of prejudice. Otherwise she would have done it.
That Leliana does only adds to her status as a writer's pet.
Justinia had leliana murder/blackmail people. So in a sense Justinia was somewhere between softened and hardened Leliana. She put a smile in public and on the background got rid of threats to her rule. Justinia wanted to bring the change eventually, but she was killed and couldn't do it. Leliana herself says I will not make the mistakes of Justinia. Well the epilogue says Leliana was pretty much successful, although her success seems more realistic if she is hardened. Either way, people like her are not unheard of in real history as well. Queen Elizabeth Tudor was a lot like her. (hardened)
Nothing says writer's pet like being used for tissue harvesting if the bad guy wins.
No comment.
She is barely present in DA2, needs a DLC to be really in the game more than 5 seconds. She is an optional companion in DAO.
She is roughly dead in 1% of playthroughs, because before being anything else she is a fan favorite.
The divine is her old friend back in valone chantry so when she became the Divine she invited Leliana to be her left hand.
She has always been skilled in death and deception, its nothing new.
I didn't get the vibe that "everyone likes her". Simply put no one hates her. Not hating =/= liking.
she is not anymore a writer's pet than some other characters.
That are excuses a bad one so to be honest i won't even mention that it pretty much tries to ignore that she got most screen time from all character in series that is followed by alistair and that she had major role in dao even if optional as well (only companion that was 3 times in da 2 save for anders that was only in da 2 and daa) .To pretty much trying sell her resurrection because players liked her what doesn't change fact they resurrected character completely unnecessary.And pretty much dorothea was writen for leliana not leliana for dorothea she pretty much started as part of leliana story nothing more.
*sigh* Elizabeth I survived because of her incredibly able advisors and spymasters. She personally did very little
I know but the comparison was a bit general. She with the help of her spies brought very prominent and good changes to England. Leliana is the spy master who is also the ruler. As you said she did very little so it doesn't matter. The real credit belongs to the spies and in this case Leliana.
Not really, Elizabeth enjoys a great deal of positive press, but in reality she was no better than "Bloody" Mary, Catholics, Scots, and obviously the Irish are not as fond of her.I know but the comparison was a bit general. She with the help of her spies brought very prominent and good changes to England. Leliana is the spy master who is also the ruler. As you said she did very little so it doesn't matter. The real credit belongs to the spies and in this case Leliana.
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