56 réponses à ce sujet

[Torkelight]

Torkelight, a large majority of players think katari is the weakest class. Just because it is possible to play it in higher difficulty levels doesn't change that they can die in a few arrows and have little to protect themselves with. I have played it in perilous, and the way you survive is to be a little girl running around screaming.

Sure, I'm not arguing that. It obviously need some better survivability on Perilous of course. Since you are supposed to be in the thick of it, its just not nearly has enough of it. With barrier though, it works wonders, but its not good that it's supposed to rely on a skill from another class to survive. Then again - many perilous groups are dependant on barrier to survive so it's really not that different. It is in the end a co op-game after all.

Just ignore my post and move on - and let the people who want to play Katari, albeit on threatening, have some fun with it. Once you get the hang of it I personally think its one of the most fun classes to play, and on that difficulty I think the class excels contrary to popular belief.

 

[Saboteur-6]

But to answer the OP's question. Katari has a rough time because of spike damage from Archer units and burst damage rogue units. Ranged enemies are super deadly in DAMP and the Katari has to play his ass off to use what little mitigation he has.

Basically, if Arcane Warrior is lulz easy mode then Katari is the polar opposite. I basically just pretend that I'm playing Dark Souls with a Dex character when I play Katari except combat roll doesn't have iframes.

[Torkelight]

But to answer the OP's question. Katari has a rough time because of spike damage from Archer units and burst damage rogue units. Ranged enemies are super deadly in DAMP and the Katari has to play his ass off to use what little mitigation he has.

Basically, if Arcane Warrior is lulz easy mode then Katari is the polar opposite. I basically just pretend that I'm playing Dark Souls with a Dex character when I play Katari except combat roll doesn't have iframes.

Run in, get rid of the archers first and foremost. It should be possible to do faster than the melee mobs have a chance to ring in on you and your Charge should be back up. Charge again and take advantage of knock down, move out a little bit and charge back in. Rinse repeat. Simple. Also, if you have a problem dying, try not to engage larger groups. Let other people take care of that while you dish out that high DPS. If you have a problem with archers moving away from you to fire their deadly shots, hold forward while attacking - that way you will lunge after him with your next attack for that finishing blow, and you dont have to die from his skillshot. Also, learning how to cancel attacks is vital. I forgot to mention that earlier. It makes for a much higher DPS and you also dont have to waste time by attacking an enemy that is already dead. Last but not least, almost every ranged attack is avoidable by either running sideways or standing behind a wall. Trick is to watch enemy animations for when the shot comes in. Only shot you really cant dodge by running sideways or sidestepping is the archers shot where they go down on their knees to aim. That shot will always hit. Basically everything else is avoidable.

But as earlier pointed out - unless in a well organized group on Perilous it probably has the lowest survivability of all classes, unfortunatly. Doesnt really match up with his awesome looks.

On a last note, that heal on kill ring helps out a lot....

[stysiaq]

I play Katari loads (I have over 100 completed missions on Katari). I love the class and its fun to play. Threatening is quite simple, apart from demons as the wraiths can dodge your charge and because of the commanders uppercut. Perilous however, will most likely require barrier or atleast a very well organized group - as when you charge in on groups your DPS tends to be a little too low to kill everything before getting killed yourself, even with the best blade in the game. I honestly think - even though there's a claim that theres a error making armor from the front useless - that Katari gets a lot of stick because most people playing it are idiots that dont think while they play.

Now, I have an advantage as I have 10% heal on kill and The Sulevin Blade, it makes running into groups on threatening a little less scary. Without the ring is a bit harder but should be possible if you have some good DPS. The thing people do wrong with Katari is that they dont judge situations properly. Katari is really not a tank, that role is only reserved for Arcane Warrior, Legionnaire and Templar. On larger group you really shouldnt (even though I do) engage groups first. You should wait till they have grouped up on a target and then run in: full group knockdown and full guard with one skill use. After that it is really up to you but your DPS should kill the group before they have a chance to do damage to you... Also, once charge is back up, you can disengage from the fight and gain even more guard and bonus knockdowns. If you are aggroed by ranged enemies you should find cover quick, wait for charge to CD and charge back in. Walls and pillars etc. are your friends, I cant stress that enough!!!! Also when using charge try to make sure to hit as many enemies as possible of course, and dont run to far or you might find yourself in a little bit of a pickle.

It's quite easy really.

As far as build goes I run with Charge, Pommel, Mighty Blow and Earthstrike something, all upgraded - even charge. Last skill is really not that worth it, I only run with it for the cool effects. To the death is probably a lot more usefull. Passives I get the defence from range attacks from the front and then everything else that maximize damage or CD etc (I would revise this a little bit if you plan on running perilous). 

Before knocking the build or the class you should watch me carry people on threatening (ofc thanks to ring and sulevin). I rarely get outdamaged honestly...

 

 

 

I don't have Sulevin blade or HoK ring, but I rarely get outdamaged on Threatening public games.

Killstreaks in the 10-15 range just tend to happen and you practically don't get down if you know what you're doing.

Once you get decent gear Katari is very good. I use Slayer (level 22 rare axe), have Sundering in the bagpack and now I just wait for either Starfang or Sulevine.

 

The pommel-mighty-charge-earthshattering build is imho the only good one. I see To The Death as a hinderance, because taking it means taking at least 2 useless passives, and guard isn't worth much anyway.

[GrimReaper]

Katari is also great for the synergy it gives the rest of the group.

Notice how a lot of skills have bonuses and the like against knocked down enemies? Well, the Katari has the most reliable knockdown attack in the game. 

Plowing through almost the entire spawn of enemies, you set them up to be killed even faster. 

 

Always try to get as many archers on your charge as well. Bull's charge is one of those abilities that takes some SKILL to use, so you need to practice. I'm certain thats not for everybody.

[stysiaq]

And as for the archers... you just need to do either of these:

 

• lure them to some narrow passage if there are a lot of them, charge them when they stack in one area and just murder them with your Mighty blow (you can for example aggro them, walk behind the doorway, light the doorway up with Earthshattering strike and then charge)
• if there aren't a lot of them just prioritize them in a group, charge + MB one, PS + autoattack another, charge back into safety

 

This can be done with a braindead group, any Keeper kind enough to barrier you at the right time makes your job exponentially easier. I'd say that Katari's learning curve boils down to getting a hang of targetting, so you don't pommel strike air, don't charge away from enemies and don't run into scattered groups of mobs...

[stysiaq]

Katari is also great for the synergy it gives the rest of the group.

Notice how a lot of skills have bonuses and the like against knocked down enemies? Well, the Katari has the most reliable knockdown attack in the game. 

Plowing through almost the entire spawn of enemies, you set them up to be killed even faster. 

 

Always try to get as many archers on your charge as well. Bull's charge is one of those abilities that takes some SKILL to use, so you need to practice. I'm certain thats not for everybody.

 

Not only that, his abilities also detonate various effects. I mean, people say it is the saving grace of Whirlwind (which is still hella bad imho). But with MB you have great synergy with anyone using ice spells.

[Saboteur-6]

And as for the archers... you just need to do either of these:

 

• lure them to some narrow passage if there are a lot of them, charge them when they stack in one area and just murder them with your Mighty blow (you can for example aggro them, walk behind the doorway, light the doorway up with Earthshattering strike and then charge)
• if there aren't a lot of them just prioritize them in a group, charge + MB one, PS + autoattack another, charge back into safety

 

This can be done with a braindead group, any Keeper kind enough to barrier you at the right time makes your job exponentially easier. I'd say that Katari's learning curve boils down to getting a hang of targetting, so you don't pommel strike air, don't charge away from enemies and don't run into scattered groups of mobs...

 

I've yet to dick around with Pommel Strike but a single target stun seemed pretty lackluster as a CC option. To the Death is basically a boss/mini-boss skill to up auto-attack damage. The fact that it can grant perpetual guard on hit as a weak "heal on hit" is just a nice bonus. I do like Earthshattering Strike but can't see me abandoning To the Death or Combat Roll though. All the other advice is solid and is how I play my Katari as well.

[Reginald Cousins]

When most people look at Katari, they see a heavy armor wearing warrior with guard.  So they instantly think high survivability and tankability.  On the contrary, Katari is almost like a melee rogue class without stealth.  Positioning and how you approach each pull matters greatly.  You can't be an AW and faceroll your way through the harder contents.  Most people are lazy so instead of "L2P" they "QQ."

[stysiaq]

I've yet to dick around with Pommel Strike but a single target stun seemed pretty lackluster as a CC option. To the Death is basically a boss/mini-boss skill to up auto-attack damage. The fact that it can grant perpetual guard on hit as a weak "heal on hit" is just a nice bonus. I do like Earthshattering Strike but can't see me abandoning To the Death or Combat Roll though. All the other advice is solid and is how I play my Katari as well.

 

Pommel Strike has very good damage (around 2200 or even over 3000 when it crits) and low cooldown (and you can further decrease the cooldown with an amulet). It's basically a guaranteed kill of an archer. Plus the stun works on most of the enemies, and it's excellent to eliminate enemy rouges or ice grandma demons. 

 

If you are using Charge + MB + roll + ttD you sacrifice a lot of your damage output and are basically a level 18 character, because 2 passives that lead to ttD are useless (stamina regeneration is useless after charge upgrade, guard damage is useless overall). 

 

But that's just my opinion, I'm sure your build works for you perfectly.

[stysiaq]

When most people look at Katari, they see a heavy armor wearing warrior with guard.  So they instantly think high survivability and tankability.  On the contrary, Katari is almost like a melee rogue class without stealth.  Positioning and how you approach each pull matters greatly.  You can't be an AW and faceroll your way through the harder contents.  Most people are lazy so instead of "L2P" they "QQ."

 

Exactly. Katari is an Assassin who instead of quietly sneaking up on his prey charges like a mentally disabled moron, screaming, knocks down whoever stands in his way and then mauls the target to the death. 

[Torkelight]

I don't have Sulevin blade or HoK ring, but I rarely get outdamaged on Threatening public games.

Killstreaks in the 10-15 range just tend to happen and you practically don't get down if you know what you're doing.

Once you get decent gear Katari is very good. I use Slayer (level 22 rare axe), have Sundering in the bagpack and now I just wait for either Starfang or Sulevine.

 

The pommel-mighty-charge-earthshattering build is imho the only good one. I see To The Death as a hinderance, because taking it means taking at least 2 useless passives, and guard isn't worth much anyway.

Glad to see people coming out of the woodwork who agrees with me here.

 

Like you guys agreed later on, Katari is not a tank. You run in, unleash mayhem and run out again. It is not Kataris job to tank. I think the learning curve is somewhat down to strategy. How to attack, when to attack - knowing your limitations and knowing what you CAN do. Knowing how to target, how to cancel attacks to maximize DPS and not waste strikes, knowing how to sidestep arrows or use environment... etc etc. When I play Katari on threatening I'd say I almost always end up on top of the scoreboard, or unless getting hit by the demon commanders uppercut I rarely ever die. It's all thanks to Charge. It does demand that you know what you are doing though. I have many a times finished stage 5 all on my lonesome because other, so called OP classes have died.

As I've said many times before though, it is much harder to survive on perilous and it's not my favorite class on that difficulty. Enemy DPS is too high, and your DPS is too low. You are more dependant on the rest of the group than you are on threatening. But the gold/time ratio is better on threatening - gold is after all what you really would want playing DAMP. Unless you are going for the 250 completed perilous runs.

As for earthshattering strike though, I do bring it but I'm a bit dissapointed of the sustained damage. Initial damage is fine but it should have more damage over time if people run over it. It is lava for gods sake! That way the skill would be even more insane. There is nothing like proccing PotA from the Sulevin and finish off 6-7 mobs by opening a fiery gap in the ground.

Oh, and pommel strike is great for those OHK's quick finishes. Also great for example if you see a red templar shadow charging up his flanking attack (which will kill anyone if he gets in all the hits), you just hit him with the pommel, and thats him either dead or out of the game for enough time to kill him. Also, a tip on the shadows flank attack strike is to just step a few steps forward, and all hits will miss. Pommel strike is great and I'd rather choose that over earthshattering strike f.ex. 

[stysiaq]

When most people look at Katari, they see a heavy armor wearing warrior with guard.  So they instantly think high survivability and tankability.  On the contrary, Katari is almost like a melee rogue class without stealth.  Positioning and how you approach each pull matters greatly.  You can't be an AW and faceroll your way through the harder contents.  Most people are lazy so instead of "L2P" they "QQ."

 

Not really, he sports 4 kinds of armor:

 

• "Bear Hobo"
• "Upgraded Bear Hobo >>lol you thought it's gonna look different<< edition"
• "Junkyard Plate Mail" (seriously, Inquisition armors are horrible and look like they are made from scraps)
• "Arishok cross-dress armor"

Nothing indicates high survivability 

[Saboteur-6]

Not really, he sports 4 kinds of armor:

 

• "Bear Hobo"
• "Upgraded Bear Hobo >>lol you thought it's gonna look different<< edition"
• "Junkyard Plate Mail" (seriously, Inquisition armors are horrible and look like they are made from scraps)
• "Arishok cross-dress armor"

Nothing indicates high survivability 

 

My Arishok pauldron's are super fabulous girlfriend!

[BelnickISMYNICKNAME]

he have good skills, it is the armor that fails now, but you can still solo routine and threatening with him, perilous not so much(any more, as I have done it before)

[Silvershroud]

Exactly. Katari is an Assassin who instead of quietly sneaking up on his prey charges like a mentally disabled moron, screaming, knocks down whoever stands in his way and then mauls the target to the death. 

This exactly.  He has the same job as an assassin, just a different method of doing it.  I go with Charging Bull, Mighty Blow, Pommel Strike, and Earthshaking Strike.  I find it works great in Threatening, though 5/5 can be a bit dull if your ranged guys kill everything before they get through the door, leaving you with either nothing to fight, or charging suicidally into the open by yourself.  I'm still waiting for a heal on kill ring, which I am sure is going to be a big help.  Just got the Sulevine from a weekend chest tonight, so I'm excited to give that a try on him soon.

 

I don't play much Perilous (yet) so I can't really speak for that.

[lpconfig]

 

Coupe De Grasse

Is that related to this guy? 

 

http://en.wikipedia...._deGrasse_Tyson

[BelnickISMYNICKNAME]

This exactly.  He has the same job as an assassin, just a different method of doing it.  I go with Charging Bull, Mighty Blow, Pommel Strike, and Earthshaking Strike.  I find it works great in Threatening, though 5/5 can be a bit dull if your ranged guys kill everything before they get through the door, leaving you with either nothing to fight, or charging suicidally into the open by yourself.  I'm still waiting for a heal on kill ring, which I am sure is going to be a big help.  Just got the Sulevine from a weekend chest tonight, so I'm excited to give that a try on him soon.

 

I don't play much Perilous (yet) so I can't really speak for that.

why suicide run ?
u share exp anyway, does not matter if you do 5 dmg or 10 000
or is it a achievement thingy

?

[fivep1ece]

I have played/won a lot of perilous...(as assassin and casters) and its just....I don't see the point.

way more XP -> faster promote -> more dmg -> faster clears -> more loot.

[ShintomeEX]

Am i the only one that likes to use whirlwind? It's an amazing skill and dishes out incredible dmg, especially when upgraded.

[phoenix fang55]

I seem to have quite the unique build, I still have to play with it a bit more to try it out, see if I can make it work. I went pretty much solely into the second tree.

I use block and slash and charging bull for guard generation, .... I forget what its call, but the chain ability, which pulls enemies to you, even though its bugged, didn't know that before I took it, but still has some uses, nice for pulling mobs off team mates, and war horn. It actually works pretty good with reavers, charge in, use war horn, and then help the reaver when he arrives mop up the enemies running around.

As I said, Its just something I'm playiing with, and might very well be something I ditch when I get him to 20 and promote him.

[stysiaq]

Am i the only one that likes to use whirlwind? It's an amazing skill and dishes out incredible dmg, especially when upgraded.

 

 

You aren't the only one, although I hate it. I'll try it only if I get the Ronnie O'Sullivan's Blade, because it has a chance to cast PotA and bring your enemies together.