83 réponses à ce sujet

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

So remember before release the news dropped that we wouldnt be assigning attributes for our characters on level up? How did that work out for everyone?

 

I had a look at my level 22 warrior and level 19 archer. Their points, without equipment buffs, are evenly spread between their main 2 stats. Everything else is at 10 (without bonus spoilery modifications)

 

The followers area  different story. Cass and Blackwall seem to have about 30 or so in each of their main stats, more in CON than STR.. Iron Bull, on the other hand, has about 30 in STR and nothing in CON. (No wonder he keeps dying! This means IB is 'jyped' out of half his attribute points, for no apparent reason.

 

"Oh, but you can add stats in crafting!" You say. Sure, you can do this. Very easy to add stats by choosing the right materials. But mostly for their base stats only.

 

Remember them telling us you can add points to whatever stat you like using crafting? Yeah not so much. Metals all add STR and CON, Leather all adds DEX and CUN and cloth, you guessed it, adds MAG and WIL. The slots that allow for stat increase, as opposed to resistances or other functions, take the material for your class. Sure there are some upgrade schematics that allow you to use the non class specific materials in the slot that increases attributes, but thats usually only a few points.

 

Unless you look at Vivienne. She has points in MAG and CON. I guess because the is a Knight Enchanter? Can you do that with your own KE? Nope, you'll get points in MAG and WIL whether you like it or not.

 

Now, this is just an observation, not a complaint. What do you all think of this? Am I missing something?

[Wulfram]

The attributes system is as boring and pointless as it has always been in Dragon Age.

[ashwind]

You can use materials that remove class restriction all together. For example, craft a heavy armor with silverlite and you can put it on a mage.

[Lebanese Dude]

You pick the abilities and stats to increase irrespective of crafting. Obviously the "main" stat matches your class but that's a relic of the class sytem. 

 

The examples you provided are irrelevant as you can build your characters in any way you want. (My Cassandra has 28 STR unbuffed but only 16 CON).

I also don't see a discrepancy between stat bonuses in the PC's passives and those of the companions. (I'm a Warrior).

 

If Iron Bull doesn't have any constitution, it's because you're building him as a glass cannon without any defensive passives or points in Vangaurd. Given that his specialization is Reaver, it's clear that he's also "theoretically" supposed to be played as such (The specializations are pre-selected). Reavers focus on offense rather than defense by virtue of needing to take damage to ramp up your own. He even talked to me about it when I specialized as a Champion.

 

My Iron Bull has a few points in Vanguard to survive nightmare since there is no CON in the 2-H and Battlemaster trees and only one CON passive in the reaver tree. I mean, the center ability is calling Charging Bull. How can you not take it?

 

With regards to crafting, I don't understand the problem.

 

All classes have access to all attributes as a component stat. Each class has a focus on their class attribute, but they can mod in other class attributes if they wish. Given that the class attributes are analogous to the purpose of the class, I don't see why they should be changed either.

Why would a warrior equip light magic armor?

 

Frankly I find the crafting system in DAI to make a lot of logical sense with regards to customization. 

My only wish is that they include dyes in the future. I sometimes have to resort to crafting less than perfect armor because the optimal stat makes me look like a clown.

[SomeUsername]

This shouldn't even be an argument between good and bad. This like other things is a complete bs system that limits us in the worst possible way. It all comes in with the "simplistic package".

[Farangbaa]

Iron Bull having low constitution makes sense in light of his Reaver class, which is dependent on losing a percentage of HP. If he has a 1000 hitpoint and gets hit for 100, that's only 10%. If he has 500 and gets hit for 100, that's 20%. Makes perfect sense if you ask me.

[Lebanese Dude]

This shouldn't even be an argument between good and bad. This like other things is a complete bs system that limits us in the worst possible way. It all comes in with the "simplistic package".

 

Hyperbolic statements like this serve no purpose.

 

I'd like to know what it limited in comparison to its predecessors. Obviously it's not crafting.

Is it the stat allocation? I believe you have MORE control with regards to your stats given the current crafting system which allows customization.

 

This is especially true with the removal of hit rating. You can build a warrior with virtually no strength and still pump out significant damage since ability effectiveness is tied to your equipment rather than your stats. Try doing that in DAO and DA2. Stats in DAI are multipliers.

 

The system has been massively expanded and restrictions relatively loosened. The removal of the stat and level requirements on abilities speaks for itself.

[Lebanese Dude]

Iron Bull having low constitution makes sense in light of his Reaver class, which is dependent on losing a percentage of HP. If he has a 1000 hitpoint and gets hit for 100, that's only 10%. If he has 500 and gets hit for 100, that's 20%. Makes perfect sense if you ask me.

 

Reaver gameplay is so intense on Nightmare. Brinksmanship to the max.

[RedIntifada]

Because there was no attribute point allocation gear became much more important for allocating points. This became problematic for me because it meant only one character could get x armour and hence have high constitution. This meant I wasn't inclined to change my team around as much as I would if I could build them with similar stats.

Sure, in theory I could take armor of x character and put it on y but it felt fiddly to do that all the time.

As for iron bull vs Cassandra in terms of durability... If you go with their defaults Cassandra has a shield which absorbs a lot of damage AND she can wear a helmet which puts the Qunari at a disadvantage as their face paint increases damage dealing rather than offering protection. These two things combined have a huge impact.

[bluonblu]

I pretty much get the same attribute points allocation as I'd assign manually (if that were possible). Magic, willpower - high and constitution - decent (for my mage). Will see how it goes for my rogue, but for now, I'm happy.  

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

You know, I completely forgot that the passives add to the attributes. I'll have to check that out too. Maybe reset everyones skills and see what I get.

 

They said you gain points as you level so I wanted to see how many points are added per level. Now I'm not sure any are.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Iron Bull having low constitution makes sense in light of his Reaver class, which is dependent on losing a percentage of HP. If he has a 1000 hitpoint and gets hit for 100, that's only 10%. If he has 500 and gets hit for 100, that's 20%. Makes perfect sense if you ask me.

 

That wasn't really my point though.Yes I can see it makes sense, but I was thinking Cass, say, got 60 points from levelling up and IB got only 30. But now I suspect it is from passives more than levelling.

[Farangbaa]

That wasn't really my point though.Yes I can see it makes sense, but I was thinking Cass, say, got 60 points from levelling up and IB got only 30. But now I suspect it is from passives more than levelling.

Yes, you are correct.

But I kinda figured you already figured in the passives, but you didn't

[NoForgiveness]

I like it. I always felt like manually putting points in was a waste of time. This gets rid of that. Makes it so I don't have to worry about it at all.

[devSin]

Attributes aren't all that useful anymore, so it turns out to not even matter.

 

I'd prefer useful attributes that you can choose to assign yourself, but with the way it's done in Inquisition, I can't say I'm bothered by it (by the same token, though, attributes could have been removed entirely and I don't think it would have been any different; maybe it would have even been better that way).

[cotheer]

Judging by some posts here, no wonder RPG genre is slowly shifting to the "1 button to rule the all" spectrum.

Shame, really.

[Exalus]

I would have liked the idea of being able to make a 'tank' rogue or 'tank' mage by being able to divert magic/dex or WP into constitution and relying on parry(if it actually worked) and fadestep/barrier.

 

As it stands, classes have very well defined roles which may or may not be a bad thing depending on who you ask. 

[Lee80]

It does seem like Attributes don't matter anymore.  It seems like the DPS on my mage staff has much more impact on spells then my magic attribute.  Though I haven't tested enough to be 100% sure on that.  

 

However, I'm fairly sure the difference is not significant enough to go out the way to craft a staff with higher magic if the DPS of a found staff is better then what I can currently craft.  

[errantknight]

Regardless of whether it's functional, I don't *want* them picking stat distribution for me. I don't *want* them to limiting abilities, tactics or armor choices. If I screw up or don't pay attention to what I'm told, fine. That's my problem. What they've done after origins is much less fun and kind of insulting.

[Gileadan]

I actually ignored attributes by the time I reached level 5. Sure, I still check the stats of items before equipping them - but overall attributes? I just loaded a post campaign save out of curiosity to check my party... had no idea what their attributes were at until now.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

Yes, you are correct.

But I kinda figured you already figured in the passives, but you didn't

 

Thanks for giving me more credit than I deserved.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

You pick the abilities and stats to increase irrespective of crafting. Obviously the "main" stat matches your class but that's a relic of the class sytem. 

 

The examples you provided are irrelevant as you can build your characters in any way you want. (My Cassandra has 28 STR unbuffed but only 16 CON).

I also don't see a discrepancy between stat bonuses in the PC's passives and those of the companions. (I'm a Warrior).

 

If Iron Bull doesn't have any constitution, it's because you're building him as a glass cannon without any defensive passives or points in Vangaurd. Given that his specialization is Reaver, it's clear that he's also "theoretically" supposed to be played as such (The specializations are pre-selected). Reavers focus on offense rather than defense by virtue of needing to take damage to ramp up your own. He even talked to me about it when I specialized as a Champion.

 

My Iron Bull has a few points in Vanguard to survive nightmare since there is no CON in the 2-H and Battlemaster trees and only one CON passive in the reaver tree. I mean, the center ability is calling Charging Bull. How can you not take it?

 

With regards to crafting, I don't understand the problem.

 

All classes have access to all attributes as a component stat. Each class has a focus on their class attribute, but they can mod in other class attributes if they wish. Given that the class attributes are analogous to the purpose of the class, I don't see why they should be changed either.

Why would a warrior equip light magic armor?

 

Frankly I find the crafting system in DAI to make a lot of logical sense with regards to customization. 

My only wish is that they include dyes in the future. I sometimes have to resort to crafting less than perfect armor because the optimal stat makes me look like a clown.

 

Embrace the Pinquisition

 

I didn't say crafting was a problem, I said it wasn't what I expected.

 

What do you mean all classes have access to all attributes? No they don't, except in limited cases. Its far easier to add STR and CON to heavy armour than it would be to add DEX. If you happen to find an upgrade (arms/legs) that allows the slot that affects attributes to contain leather then you could add a few points, If you don't have that schematic, then you are out of luck.

 

Even if you do have such a schematic, it's only a few points. If I wanted to have a warrior that had more DEX than CON could I do that? Maybe I want to focus on avoidance rather than hitpoints. I'm just thinking out loud here though, I don't know whether there would even be any point in trying that.

 

Personally I'm fine with following the path Bioware wants me to, but there are some people who prefer to experiment. I'm not convinced that the system in DAI is flexible enough to experiment like that. Feel free to prove me wrong though. I'd be interested in seeing what you came up with.

[actionhero112]

It's dumb.

 

The whole point of an rpg is to be able to build your character. Shifting the focus away from building your character to loot you find and then craft places the emphasis of the game on the shiny equipment, not the actual character his/herself. I am not roleplaying my axe, I don't want my strength to depend on what axe I have. That is so dumb. 

 

Honestly though the combat in this game is so simplistic and spam heavy that I'm not surprised that the character building can be managed by children. I want to think about where I level up, rather than the "everything works as long as you've got this big sword"

 

It's funny that a series that prides itself on choice in its story is steadily sucking choice out of their combat system. 

[devSin]

It does seem like Attributes don't matter anymore.  It seems like the DPS on my mage staff has much more impact on spells then my magic attribute.  Though I haven't tested enough to be 100% sure on that.

Magic gives 0.5 attack and 1 magic defense (or barrier penetration; magic gets one and willpower the other). It has no other purpose.

The attributes just seem to be a meaningless layer of obfuscation to the stats that actually matter (attack, critical chance and damage, defense, etc.). A passive that gives +3 magic would probably be better served saying it gives you 1.5% attack and 3% magic defense.

I'm not sure what the reason is for attributes even existing anymore (given that they're automatically assigned and have such little impact). It seems to be convention more than anything. As posted above, you can quite easily play through the entire game without once looking at the attributes of your party (and there is no situation at all where you ever have to care).

[Kurt M.]

Attributes should have never been nerfed down to being tied to Talents. That's all I'm saying.

 

I just don't get Bioware. What's the point of making a game more complex while at the same time oversimplifying other details of it?