83 réponses à ce sujet

[That's Numberwang!]

At first i couldn't believe they would dumb down levelling even more

guess they had to cater to 'the masses'

[Greenface21]

The only defense I've ever seen thrown around in favor of adjustable attributes is for build diversity, but build diversity has always been defined by skill/talent selection. Attributes just make whatever talent's you choose more viable. Manual adjustment of attributes just seems like a wasted extra step.  What's the point of making something more complicated when there's no need?

[errantknight]

'Streamlining'. An ugly curse word meaning 'you're an effing idiot'

[Greenface21]

I see a lot of people just using rpg elitist speak and not much actual discussion.... 

 

Is BSN turning into RPGcodex? 

[FOE]

This attribute system is (forgive the pun) an abomination.  It's gotten so far away from a pen/paper (AD&D'ish) RPG-like experience, that I can't believe.  Don't expect any rules to apply here.  Just keep smashing those controller buttons.  Something good will probably happen at some point.

[Morroian]

The only defense I've ever seen thrown around in favor of adjustable attributes is for build diversity, but build diversity has always been defined by skill/talent selection. Attributes just make whatever talent's you choose more viable. 

 

Thats fine but DAI doesn't really have much diversity in abilities/talents either. 

[Farangbaa]

It's dumb.
 
The whole point of an rpg is to be able to build your character. Shifting the focus away from building your character to loot you find and then craft places the emphasis of the game on the shiny equipment, not the actual character his/herself. I am not roleplaying my axe, I don't want my strength to depend on what axe I have. That is so dumb. 
 
Honestly though the combat in this game is so simplistic and spam heavy that I'm not surprised that the character building can be managed by children. I want to think about where I level up, rather than the "everything works as long as you've got this big sword"
 
It's funny that a series that prides itself on choice in its story is steadily sucking choice out of their combat system.

*sigh*

So controlling what your character says and does is *not* roleplaying, but assigning stat points when gaining a level is?

Right.

[SomeUsername]

*sigh*

So controlling what your character says and does is *not* roleplaying, but assigning stat points when gaining a level is?

Right.

Yes, you just explained the level of dumbed down content Inquisition is filled with. In every single game, you can control your character. In every single rpg, you can control what your character says even in much more complex ways (in the good ones). You are defending this game for being an rpg. I agree that it can be considered an rpg at best (struggling to live up to it), but not a good one. A proper role-playing game has all of those features. You can't possibly want any future DA games to have the same system as in here which brings up the question of why are you trying to justify it?

[DeckardRed]

I haven't really missed the allocation of attributes simply because it's now been covered by passive skills and crafting. The link to attributes I miss is back to Origins when you could have a warrior with a bow or a rogue in heavy armour with a long and short sword because equipment had minimum attribute requirements as well as level. (also miss having two weapon sets so that I could swap to a round of bow volley fire). 

[actionhero112]

*sigh*

So controlling what your character says and does is *not* roleplaying, but assigning stat points when gaining a level is?

Right.

I'm building how the character acts in combat. That's not just abilities to me, but attribute points as well. I want my character to be strong independent of their equipment, but everything in this game's combat is tied to the weapon damage stat. I'm not roleplaying the weapon. I don't want my character's power to be completely tied to the weapon and equipment I have. 

 

Assigning stat points makes the character feel like mine, because there is a very real numerical difference from where I started. And this difference is based on choices I've made, not choices essentially made for me. 

 

The level up system is brainless. I could go on about how the combat system is soulless, but that's a discussion for another time. 

 

The only stupid part about old attribute systems was figuring out what they meant in the individual games. It took me forever to figure out Kotor's attribute system, but I ended up with a character that played vastly different than if I had built my character another way. It not only influenced what skills I got because certain abilities scaled off of different things but it also affected what weapons I equipped. Also that system where how you acted influenced your force power's strength was super legit, and imo the pinnacle of blending combat and story in an rpg. 

[katokires]

The attributes system is as boring and pointless as it has always been in Dragon Age.

No it hasn't. DA2 yeah, you couldn't do anything besides the obvious. DAO however is completely different... I still make new build for DAO the last was two-daggers, rogue like, arcane warrior, DEX-MAG, high crit rate and damage. Also "full" willpower warrior, berserker, spirit warrior and so on. Still have many builds to make and stats are everything for all of my builds.

[xkg]

It took me forever to figure out Kotor's attribute system, but I ended up with a character that played vastly different than if I had built my character another way. It not only influenced what skills I got because certain abilities scaled off of different things but it also affected what weapons I equipped. Also that system where how you acted influenced your force power's strength was super legit, and imo the pinnacle of blending combat and story in an rpg.

 

KOTOR == D&D rules. If you played PnP version or one of the many computer adaptations (BG, Nenerwinter Nights etc.) there was not much left to figure out there. If you ere new then yeah, It may take a while to dig through all the rules.

 

Bioware is going for some kind of genre mishmash, trying to appease everyone, but not everyone likes those mixes. And since they stopped using licened rulesets they can't came up with anything good. DA:O mechanics was best of their homeomde rules but nothing special TBH. Good at best average at worst. Then DA2 came and then DAI came. Degrade after degrade. I just want to see DA4 - just for a few laughs - I am curious, how far can they go, and what is going to be left there that could be called mechanics. Maybe two stats Attack/Defence allocated for you through dress-up portion of the game? Maybe at least then the majority will agree that this is Adventure game and no longer any kind of RPG - apart from few ones who thinks that controlling what your charcater does and says is RPG game. According to that Monkey island is an amazing RPG, so many dialogue options, things to do...

 

Back to bioware and their mechanics. Thruth is, they are unable to make great mechanics, they never did that before so they lack any experience. In their older games they focused on stories, charcaters, worlds. They didn't have to bother with rules because they usesd licensed ones. One that has been improved by millions of peoples for past 30 years - no chance for Bioware to come up with anything even remotely close with their own rules.

And instead of improving the rules they already had(DA:O) they took the easy way out - if there is some kind of problem let's cut it out (spells/schools, things like dual wielding, abilities... and the list goes on and on.

 

Another one is, as far as I can tell, people nowadays don't like complicated games. Game should give them companions, build they stats for them, tell them with markers where to go and what to do. All they want is to pick few dialogue options and go questing, killing stuff, picking loot, selling loot, buying better armor and then back to killing more monsters, rinse and repeat.

[Precursor Meta]

So that's why IB is so squishy!

[Chidy1776]

I would deffinetly like to be able to ppace the stat points personally. The crafting options are very limited, since the material types are dictated. I understnad for the most part theyre what your class wants, but i would love for my templar to be able to add some willpower and cunning. Will power gives magic deffense and damage, which is my focus on him.
I guess it really comes down to the fact that i ljke to be able to build my character my way, not having to fit it into preset molds. Class systems and specialization are important to make decisions unique, but dai has just a little to much confinement in options.

[llandwynwyn]

Iron Bull having low constitution makes sense in light of his Reaver class, which is dependent on losing a percentage of HP. If he has a 1000 hitpoint and gets hit for 100, that's only 10%. If he has 500 and gets hit for 100, that's 20%. Makes perfect sense if you ask me.

No, it doesn't. Not everyone will want to play with him as a Reaver. Aren't we suppose to have more freedom with our companions now?

[Chidy1776]

One thing i would like to add in here is that debating, CONSTRUCTIVE criticism, and voicing your opinions are extremely important. Believe it or not bioware and or ea has ppl checking reviews and reading these forums.
Game companys have learned that listening to their customers is vital. It may not seem like it but i know for a fact they see what were saying and use that to improve. This doesnt mean everything u want will magically apear, but it does mean it gets considered when building new games or even just patching and updating current ones.
The key imo is being constructive and offering solutions to things u want changed. We as the consumer have the potential to signifcantly alter design decisions, but for this to work they need to see what we do and dont want.

[errantknight]

The only defense I've ever seen thrown around in favor of adjustable attributes is for build diversity, but build diversity has always been defined by skill/talent selection. Attributes just make whatever talent's you choose more viable. Manual adjustment of attributes just seems like a wasted extra step.  What's the point of making something more complicated when there's no need?

Because not eveyone is going to agree on what optimal is. Part of the fun of an rpg is creating builds for yourself and your companions and testing them out. This choice sucks a lot of the fun out of character building.

[errantknight]

No, it doesn't. Not everyone will want to play with him as a Reaver. Aren't we suppose to have more freedom with our companions now?

 

Me, for example. I respecced him to a sword and shield  because my mage was running into battle first. Cassandra's battle sashay rips me right out of the moment every time I see it.

[That's Numberwang!]

*sigh*

So controlling what your character says and does is *not* roleplaying, but assigning stat points when gaining a level is?

Right.

If only they had given us half decent roleplaying I would've been okay with shitty combat

[Farangbaa]

No it hasn't. DA2 yeah, you couldn't do anything besides the obvious. DAO however is completely different... I still make new build for DAO the last was two-daggers, rogue like, arcane warrior, DEX-MAG, high crit rate and damage. Also "full" willpower warrior, berserker, spirit warrior and so on. Still have many builds to make and stats are everything for all of my builds.

 

You can still do this in DA:I if you use Silverite/Snouffleur skin to remove class restriction on armors.

 

Yes, you just explained the level of dumbed down content Inquisition is filled with. In every single game, you can control your character. In every single rpg, you can control what your character says even in much more complex ways (in the good ones). You are defending this game for being an rpg. I agree that it can be considered an rpg at best (struggling to live up to it), but not a good one. A proper role-playing game has all of those features. You can't possibly want any future DA games to have the same system as in here which brings up the question of why are you trying to justify it?

 

And why could I not want this system in the next game? Because I do.

 

If only they had given us half decent roleplaying I would've been okay with shitty combat

 

Define roleplaying.

 

Quick guess:
-I WANT TO KILL NPC's

-Why can't I join Corypheus?

-Why can't I bang everyone and everything when creating a male?

etc.

[That's Numberwang!]

Define roleplaying.

 

Quick guess:
-I WANT TO KILL NPC's

-Why can't I join Corypheus?

-Why can't I bang everyone and everything when creating a male?

etc.

 

Wat?

 

 

By roleplaying i mean saying what i want like in origins where you have around 6 options for each encounter to flesh out your character as opposed to inquisiion where you're lucky to have two and even then your character says something completely different to what you meant

 

-Why can't I bang everyone and everything when creating a male?

And i'm ****** tired of the attitude that because i'm a straight male teenager that all i want to do is pork everything

it's offending and honestly a harmful sexist stereotype

Because obviously  'Hormones = Satanic Rapist'

[Selea]

Remember them telling us you can add points to whatever stat you like using crafting? Yeah not so much. Metals all add STR and CON, Leather all adds DEX and CUN and cloth, you guessed it, adds MAG and WIL. The slots that allow for stat increase, as opposed to resistances or other functions, take the material for your class. Sure there are some upgrade schematics that allow you to use the non class specific materials in the slot that increases attributes, but thats usually only a few points.

 

You are wrong. Various schematics do different things, depending on what you want to do. For example with a 2 handed warrior you can use schematics to add crit chance or heal on hit or critical damage (there are various pommels/shafts that have different materials used depending on what you want to do) and a lot of other combinations, you can have schematics that add to the various stats etc. Depending on the schematics you use, the materials used in them and the placement of those materials (offense/utility/defnse) you can practically create whatever build you prefer using the materials you need that add the effects you seek.

Using the example of a 2 handed warrior I created an high crit chance Templar build (btw Templar armor can add also to cunning that means +crit chance) that could CC every enemy with sleep (weaken on crits + chain lightning mastercraft = shocked + weaken = sleep) with impressive detonators ability and burst abilities spamming (given the 1 sec reduction on CDs on criticals, so that I could use Wrath of Heaven + Spell Purge combo a lot plus detonators on sleeping targets; in short a supremely powerful build and very fun to play). I could have instead focused on %attack, or heal on kill + heal on hit (both very good for a Reaver for example) and many other combinations depending on what I would have liked to do.

With crafting in DA:I you can do the same and more than you could do with stats in other DA titles for EVERY class/spec combination. The majority of people simply use the "best" schematic they find without considering the materials used in that schematic (and how those materials are placed) and then they think that you have no build tailoring capability, even when there are multiple different schematics for the upgrades that do different things depending on the materials used in them (it's much better to use a Tier 2 pommel that has leather instead than a masterwork Tier 3 pommel with metal if you want a +crit chance build, for example).

[Selea]

Remember them telling us you can add points to whatever stat you like using crafting? Yeah not so much. Metals all add STR and CON, Leather all adds DEX and CUN and cloth, you guessed it, adds MAG and WIL. The slots that allow for stat increase, as opposed to resistances or other functions, take the material for your class. Sure there are some upgrade schematics that allow you to use the non class specific materials in the slot that increases attributes, but thats usually only a few points.

You are wrong. Various schematics do different things, depending on what you want to do. For example with a 2 handed warrior you can use schematics to add crit chance or heal on hit or critical damage, you can have schematics that add to the various stats etc. Depending on the schematics you use you can practically create whatever build you prefer. Using the example of a 2 handed warrior I created an high crit chance Templar build that could CC every enemy with sleep (weaken on crits + chain lightning mastercraft = shocked + weaken = sleep) with impressive detonators ability. I could have instead focused on %attack, or heal on kill + heal on hit and many other combinations.

It is that, as always, people don't know how to use the system well and before they do, however, they still complain. With crafting in DA:I you can do the same and more than you could do with stats in other DA titles for EVERY class/spec combination.

[Darkly Tranquil]

It is that, as always, people don't know how to use the system well and before they do, however, they still complain. With crafting in DA:I you can do the same and more than you could do with stats in other DA titles for EVERY class/spec combination.

Wasn't the crafting system meant to be completely optional? If that's the case, why did they redirect so much of the character customisation system into something that was meant to be a side game? Perhaps to push people into spending hours grinding for mats so the game would seem longer?