83 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

By roleplaying i mean saying what i want like in origins where you have around 6 options for each encounter to flesh out your character as opposed to inquisiion where you're lucky to have two and even then your character says something completely different to what you meant

Of those 6 options, 4 are investigate options that do not progress the conversation at all.

So really, DA:O gave you LESS options most of the time than DA:I does. Don't believe me? Replay the game.
 

-Why can't I bang everyone and everything when creating a male?
And i'm ****** tired of the attitude that because i'm a straight male teenager that all i want to do is pork everything
it's offending and honestly a harmful sexist stereotype
Because obviously  'Hormones = Satanic Rapist'

Judging by the countless threads about this subject that did show straight male teenagers want to bang everything that moves, you're in the minority.

And no one said straight male teenagers were Satanic rapist. Don't be such a drama queen.

[DameMagpie]

It's fun for me to choose skills that have some added measure of attribution, anyway. I've played games where prime character development came at the cost of anguishing experimentation, not that I did any of the anguishing. Then what follows is enigmatic websites devoted to that optimized rotation. In the end there is not really versatility in more robust systems because the intent that drove you to optimize forces you to always play one way. I like this system better, even if I waste a point here and there, as there does seem to be a few different and painless play-thoughs in the mean  

[Elhanan]

The lack of Player controlled design is one of the main factors I prefer DAO to DAI; believe this new method should go back to the design floor. That said, for the Inquisitor, the value of Attributes is not as important due to the effects tied to Talents and Spells tied to those increases (eg; +3 X; does 300% weapon dmg, 5% chance).

Personally, I only perform crafting for the Main; the others get the best of what is discovered.

[zeypher]

The reason it is done it due to MP. Alot of specializations and skills have been seriously toned down from their previous iterations all due to MP.

[That's Numberwang!]

Of those 6 options, 4 are investigate options that do not progress the conversation at all.

So really, DA:O gave you LESS options most of the time than DA:I does. Don't believe me? Replay the game.
 

Judging by the countless threads about this subject that did show straight male teenagers want to bang everything that moves, you're in the minority.

And no one said straight male teenagers were Satanic rapist. Don't be such a drama queen.

I did

I got past the winter palace bit and gave up to go play origins again and enjoyed it, and yes they were investigate options but these started a dialogue subchain which led to more dialogue choices for roleplaying

for example ask morrigan about shapeshifting and she asks you for your opinion of it this is not a rare happenstance.

Links?

Proof that these were straight male teenagers?

and just because a stereotype is occasionally true it does not mean that it is acceptable to judge and be contemptuous of an entire generation

the double-standards, when a girl complains about sexism in culture it's justice but when it's a boy they're being a drama queen

Everywhere you look teenage boys "in their mother's basement" are a byword for mysogeny and female objectification and it doesn't feel good to be dismissed as drooling animals.

[Phoe77]

These topics would be so much more useful if people would stop insinuating that the opposite side is at fault for what they like.  I could honestly care less about putting points into attributes as part of leveling up.  That doesn't mean I'm RPGing wrong somehow or that I don't understand what an RPG "really is".

 

I never really deviated much from the expected point distribution in the earlier games.  Warriors primarily got strength and constitution, with some dexterity thrown in there because that's how you raise defense.  Now that defense is the responsibility of the player, I have little reason to put anything outside of strength and con anyway.  I therefore have no reason not to want a similar system to be present in future games.

[Elhanan]

These topics would be so much more useful if people would stop insinuating that the opposite side is at fault for what they like.  I could honestly care less about putting points into attributes as part of leveling up.  That doesn't mean I'm RPGing wrong somehow or that I don't understand what an RPG "really is".
 
I never really deviated much from the expected point distribution in the earlier games.  Warriors primarily got strength and constitution, with some dexterity thrown in there because that's how you raise defense.  Now that defense is the responsibility of the player, I have little reason to put anything outside of strength and con anyway.  I therefore have no reason not to want a similar system to be present in future games.

Perhaps if you care less, then allow us that prefer to manually choose which Attributes are used and increased to do so. I quite like placing DEX for Mages and Warriors, STR for Rogues, and more Willpower to most DA builds. Currently, one Dwarven Archer will have the exact same Attributes as another until they make Talent selections in other Tiers. While you may not have reason to increase other stats, and may continue to employ the option for the game to choose for you, pls try and understand that others like myself wish for variants; for good or ill.

[AlanC9]

So really, DA:O gave you LESS options most of the time than DA:I does. Don't believe me? Replay the game.

 
Replaying isn't enough. He'd have to also do an accurate count when he replayed.

[They call me a SpaceCowboy]

These topics would be so much more useful if people would stop insinuating that the opposite side is at fault for what they like.  I could honestly care less about putting points into attributes as part of leveling up.  That doesn't mean I'm RPGing wrong somehow or that I don't understand what an RPG "really is".

 

I never really deviated much from the expected point distribution in the earlier games.  Warriors primarily got strength and constitution, with some dexterity thrown in there because that's how you raise defense.  Now that defense is the responsibility of the player, I have little reason to put anything outside of strength and con anyway.  I therefore have no reason not to want a similar system to be present in future games.

 

Soo, you care about it then?

 

I'm not complaining or criticizing, as stated in the OP, i"m just discussing. Dexterity doesn't even seem to be for defense anymore, from what I remember of the description.

[Phil5000]

I would prefer to assign points myself. It's boring that it does it automatically.

[Phoe77]

Perhaps if you care less, then allow us that prefer to manually choose which Attributes are used and increased to do so. I quite like placing DEX for Mages and Warriors, STR for Rogues, and more Willpower to most DA builds. Currently, one Dwarven Archer will have the exact same Attributes as another until they make Talent selections in other Tiers. While you may not have reason to increase other stats, and may continue to employ the option for the game to choose for you, pls try and understand that others like myself wish for variants; for good or ill.

 

I would be happy to if I had any control whatsoever over how the game was designed.  I'm not the one stopping you, after all.  Like I said, I'm fine with things the way they are, but I'm also fine with spending a minute or two to allocate points if I absolutely have to.  I understand your point of view; I just don't share it.

 

I don't have any problem with discussing aspects of the game that we may not like.  I just those discussions would actually be enjoyable as well as productive if some people didn't use them as opportunities to thumb their noses at you for liking things a different way.  

[Elhanan]

I would be happy to if I had any control whatsoever over how the game was designed.  I'm not the one stopping you, after all.  Like I said, I'm fine with things the way they are, but I'm also fine with spending a minute or two to allocate points if I absolutely have to.  I understand your point of view; I just don't share it.
 
I don't have any problem with discussing aspects of the game that we may not like.  I just those discussions would actually be enjoyable as well as productive if some people didn't use them as opportunities to thumb their noses at you for liking things a different way.

Agreeing to disagree, and allowing others to play in a manner they wish is a refreshingly different reply seen of late. Thanks!

FWIW - If we do get manual Attributes, there has always been an auto-selection option in the past games, too. We both get what we wish if that happens.

[The Serge777]

I think it's important to point out that this approach is essentially how one experiences D&D and related games.  Other than the lack of assigning points during character creation (which I do miss), DAI features largely static ability scores that are only really affected by magic items (belts, rings, armor, gauntlets, etc.).  Yes, there are some ability point applications from 3ed on through leveling, but it was fairly limited; DAI parallels this by assigning ability points through power acquisition.  While this does have the same "Christmas tree" effect that some criticize D&D for, it's not an unknown RPG approach.  In fact, it's closely related to the granddaddy of RPG's approach.

[Elhanan]

I think it's important to point out that this approach is essentially how one experiences D&D and related games.  Other than the lack of assigning points during character creation (which I do miss), DAI features largely static ability scores that are only really affected by magic items (belts, rings, armor, gauntlets, etc.).  Yes, there are some ability point applications from 3ed on through leveling, but it was fairly limited; DAI parallels this by assigning ability points through power acquisition.  While this does have the same "Christmas tree" effect that some criticize D&D for, it's not an unknown RPG approach.  In fact, it's closely related to the granddaddy of RPG's approach.

But the DA series began on another approach; one that used Player control for builds, Attributes, less restrictions, etc. And while one should not compare apples to oranges, using the D&D model, it would seem that this series is regressing; not progressing in Player controlled design.

[The Serge777]

But the DA series began on another approach; one that used Player control for builds, Attributes, less restrictions, etc. And while one should not compare apples to oranges, using the D&D model, it would seem that this series is regressing; not progressing in Player controlled design.

Except that the player still has control, just in a different way.  The player decides which powers to select, what magic items to craft, and so forth.  Really, the difference is that the increase is embedded in powers that, ostensibly, reflect that "appropriate" ability score increase. 

 

While I can go either way, I think that the concerns with this are a bit overblown.

[Elhanan]

Except that the player still has control, just in a different way.  The player decides which powers to select, what magic items to craft, and so forth.  Really, the difference is that the increase is embedded in powers that, ostensibly, reflect that "appropriate" ability score increase. 
 
While I can go either way, I think that the concerns with this are a bit overblown.

Not exactly; one Dwarven Archer has exactly the same design as another until one chooses other Talent tiers, or uses customized gear. Even then, the items are limited due to material effects. I prefer options, unique designs, and versatility in builds.

[The Serge777]

Your point about the dwarven archer doesn't really counter my point, which was that there are stat increases that are tied to leveling.  As the player, you have (admittedly) indirect influence.  Furthermore, you are under no compulsion to completely fill in any tree.  The Varrics in my three playthroughs were fairly different from each other because I intentionally didn't complete the Archer tree in two of them (and not because I was worried about stats). 

 

While you may be limited in terms of have direct influence over your non-pimped out dwarven archer, you have a fair amount of control over what kind of gear you select.  Again, I've played this game three times and my Cassandras are all different.  Different stats due to different gear in order to accomplish different things (not to mention slightly different class builds). 

 

I think there are options and versatility here, just in a format you might not prefer. 

[Farangbaa]

I think there are options and versatility here, just in a format you might not prefer.

This. You can even leave the 'I think' part out.

These people just can't adjust to new game rules. Want to play the same game every time.

[Elhanan]

Your point about the dwarven archer doesn't really counter my point, which was that there are stat increases that are tied to leveling.  As the player, you have (admittedly) indirect influence.  Furthermore, you are under no compulsion to completely fill in any tree.  The Varrics in my three playthroughs were fairly different from each other because I intentionally didn't complete the Archer tree in two of them (and not because I was worried about stats). 
 
While you may be limited in terms of have direct influence over your non-pimped out dwarven archer, you have a fair amount of control over what kind of gear you select.  Again, I've played this game three times and my Cassandras are all different.  Different stats due to different gear in order to accomplish different things (not to mention slightly different class builds). 
 
I think there are options and versatility here, just in a format you might not prefer.

OK; one can still make builds that are worse than others (Attributes, Talents, Spells. Perks), but are highly unlikely to make better ones. Or as one is limited to eight slots, can have more diverse choices as to what they cannot use. And I can take Talents that are helpful if I have the correct weapon; not so much if using something else. Etc.

Not exactly my intentions....

[Navasha]

I do actually love DA:I, however, I do believe that most of the RPG elements from a game mechanics standpoint have been WAY oversimplified.   I view DA:I more like Diablo style game than an actual RPG.    The lack of being able to have a hand in how your characters develop is a big part of that feeling along with the simplified ability trees.

[Farangbaa]

I would prefer to assign points myself. It's boring that it does it automatically.

Are we going to pretend that pressing +1 int three times is exciting now?

[Marshal Moriarty]

Why not? Plenty of people are pretending that holding down attack and watching health bars deplete until you win, counts as exciting combat, so why not this?

 

Seriously, I don't see how this can be an argument. How can anyone argue that people should be at least be allowed the *choice* to level their attributes up manually? At long as there is an Auto Level option, or if that's the norm and you can click an option to turn on Manual Levelling, then what would the problem with that? Why shouldn't people be allowed to allocate their points, if that's what they want to do?

 

It wouldn't be harming anyone else, who doesn't want to do that. Taking options out of games is *never* a good idea.

[Farangbaa]

Why not? Plenty of people are pretending that holding down attack and watching health bars deplete until you win, counts as exciting combat, so why not this?
 
Seriously, I don't see how this can be an argument. How can anyone argue that people should be at least be allowed the *choice* to level their attributes up manually? At long as there is an Auto Level option, or if that's the norm and you can click an option to turn on Manual Levelling, then what would the problem with that? Why shouldn't people be allowed to allocate their points, if that's what they want to do?
 
It wouldn't be harming anyone else, who doesn't want to do that. Taking options out of games is *never* a good idea.

Because you get all the freedom you need in crafting.

This system is just different. Adapt or go play some more DA:O. Or Baldur's Gate (oh wait, that glorious game had no attribute gains at alle xcept via tomes)

[Marshal Moriarty]

But what harm would it do you, if I was allowed to allocate my points?! It wouldn't affect you in *any* way, so long as they didn't remove the auto level at the same time, so why not let me (or whoever) do it?

 

I just don't understand why people would have a problem with this.

[The Serge777]

OK; one can still make builds that are worse than others (Attributes, Talents, Spells. Perks), but are highly unlikely to make better ones. Or as one is limited to eight slots, can have more diverse choices as to what they cannot use. And I can take Talents that are helpful if I have the correct weapon; not so much if using something else. Etc.

Not exactly my intentions....

Not sure what you mean by "one can still make builds that are worse than others..., but are highly unlikely to make better ones."  Doesn't that, by default, mean that some builds are "better" than others?

 

Anyway, the matter of only eight slots is a separate conversation.  I'm not a fan of the eight slots at all, particularly for mages.  I suspect that one reason for this is because of limited buttons on the consoles once they added the tactics camera (although I don't recall doing anything with the left trigger...) on console games.  But gain, that's a different discussion.