461 réponses à ce sujet

[Steelcan]

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free, ahem.

*sigh*

 

Here I am thinking, silly Hanako, then this post pops up and I have to argue against it.

 

There is more to marriage than just sex

[ruggly]

The Sims have it all figured out.

 

[CrimsonN7]

*sigh*

 

Here I am thinking, silly Hanako, then this post pops up and I have to argue against it.

 

There is more to marriage than just sex

 

I was being facetious but ok, internet doesn't translate well at times, you folk enjoy your marriage debate, don't have strong feelings about this one way or the other, doesn't interest me in DA land or life. I wonder how long it will stretch out for? This thread has went places and it's worth continued lurking. 

[(Disgusted noise.)]

I have to say, I'm filled with such crippling regret about avoiding this thread for so long. I didn't want to wade into another Bull vortex so soon, but Kallen/Hanako drama is quite literally my favorite thing about BSN.

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free, ahem.

 

Hooooooor!

 

 

 

 

(Pot callin' kettle black right here...)

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

*sigh*

 

Here I am thinking, silly Hanako, then this post pops up and I have to argue against it.

 

There is more to marriage than just sex

 

Which has nothing to do with the joke she made. 

[Andraste_Reborn]

Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free, ahem.

 

I am now picturing Sera saying this to my future FemQunari Inquisitor .

[CrimsonN7]

I am now picturing Sera saying this to my future FemQunari Inquisitor .

 

Hope she's not lactose intolerant.

 

*tumbleweed rolls by*

 

*I'll just grab my coat there*

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I think you are reading too deeply into this

Probably. But it's how I feel. They say I should try expressing myself more, so here we go. 

 

 

Sera is the last of the companions that I could ever see wanting to get married. Of course she'll have a strong reaction. And of course it's an absurd thought that Vivienne as a circle mage would be married to a duke, he would lose his position within the Orlesian nobility if he married a mage. That's what happened to Leandra Hawke, she had to elope and lose her family in order to marry Malcolm. The difference is that Leandra was willing to pay that price, Bastien and Vivienne are not. 

 

But then we have characters like Josephine and Blackwall who wants to settle down with your Inquisitor. And I'm pretty sure that both Cass and Cullen would want that as well. And Merrill/Hawke, Anders/Hawke, Warden Alistair/HoF and Morrigan/HoF are super easy to at least headcanon as married. Morrigan outright calls a romanced warden her husband in Inquisiton. King Alistair/Fem Cousland and Anora/Male Cousland can get married. 

 

If we look at NPC/NPC we have the Hawkes, Aveline/Donnic, Oghren/Felsi, Eamon/Isolde, the Couslands, Nathaniel's sister and her husband, Mae/Varric's cousin. All are examples of more or less happy marriages. Inquisition is a bit harder, but that's because the game doesn't focus on families and close associates in the same way that the other two games did. We don't really get to meet our companions families like we did in the earlier games. 

 

The only marriages that I can think of that actually ended in disaster were Oghren/Branka and Bella and her first husband, or maybe if you want to stretch it there's Bianca/whatshisface. And all of them were arranged marriages.

 

Just because the game doesn't show you a big wedding scene doesn't mean that they are discriminating people who think that marriage is super important. There's nothing that says that your Inquisitor and Josephine doesn't get their perfect fairy tale wedding once Cory is defeated and things have settled down a bit. 

 

I have no doubt that I've missed some good and bad examples, but I think you get my point. Once again: how the hell are you being treated poorly/ridiculed by Bioware?

 

Edit: Not sure if married, but Wade and Herren are in a devoted relationship as are Nicolas and Julien. 

Not going to adress my examples of The Iron Bull and Cullen? I agree Sera is among the last of the LIs who would want that, but it still serves as an example. The only times the discussion among LIs ever comes up is with LIs who are appalled by that thought. 

 

There is no dialogue about any LI wanting to settle down. Become involved in a committed relationship yes, settle down no. So we have open rejections on the idea, and any possibly acceptance of the idea is found only in headcanon. That's how equal no matter how you slice it. And yeah, Cullen clearly wanted that since when the game came out after getting involved with him you are called Mrs. Rutherford. But then they patched that line out. And again, headcanoning marriage vs canon premarital relations is not equal. As a comparison, we can headcanon that Varric and the Inquiositor were involved, doesn't mean it is equal to a relationship actually established and shown. 

 

As for your NPC examples: The Hawkes die, Aveline and Donnic only marry after banging in her office, Oghren and Felsi get separated in Awakening, Isolde can die, the Couslands die, we have no idea if Delilah Howe's husband survived what happened in Amaranthine, I'll give you Mae/Thornold. So of all those you listed, only one, maybe two end positively.

 

I never used the term discriminate. I said they weren't being inclusive, which is accurate since 0 out of 8 have it involved in the relationship while 4 out of 8 for certain and up to 8 out of 8 can have premarital sex involved. The fact people can headcanon something doesn't mean it is there. People can headcanon that Cassandra is bisexual instead of heterosexual, doesn't mean she is. 

 

So while I get your point, I disagree with it. And devoted relationships is not the same thing. 

 

 

Ynqve covered my thoughts on the in-game stuff, but I have to ask about this. How exactly are they mistreating you outside the games?

I never said mistreating. No, that distinction goes to members of the fanbase. Though the fact Bioware sides with said members doesn't bode well. 

 

I have to say, I'm filled with such crippling regret about avoiding this thread for so long. I didn't want to wade into another Bull vortex so soon, but Kallen/Hanako drama is quite literally my favorite thing about BSN.

And now we are back to people laughing at me. 

 

[daveliam]

 

 

Probably. But it's how I feel. They say I should try expressing myself more, so here we go. 

 

 

Not going to adress my examples of The Iron Bull and Cullen? I agree Sera is among the last of the LIs who would want that, but it still serves as an example. The only times the discussion among LIs ever comes up is with LIs who are appalled by that thought. 

 

There is no dialogue about any LI wanting to settle down. Become involved in a committed relationship yes, settle down no. So we have open rejections on the idea, and any possibly acceptance of the idea is found only in headcanon. That's how equal no matter how you slice it. And yeah, Cullen clearly wanted that since when the game came out after getting involved with him you are called Mrs. Rutherford. But then they patched that line out. And again, headcanoning marriage vs canon premarital relations is not equal. As a comparison, we can headcanon that Varric and the Inquiositor were involved, doesn't mean it is equal to a relationship actually established and shown. 

 

As for your NPC examples: The Hawkes die, Aveline and Donnic only marry after banging in her office, Oghren and Felsi get separated in Awakening, Isolde can die, the Couslands die, we have no idea if Delilah Howe's husband survived what happened in Amaranthine, I'll give you Mae/Thornold. So of all those you listed, only one, maybe two end positively.

 

I never used the term discriminate. I said they weren't being inclusive, which is accurate since 0 out of 8 have it involved in the relationship while 4 out of 8 for certain and up to 8 out of 8 can have premarital sex involved. The fact people can headcanon something doesn't mean it is there. People can headcanon that Cassandra is bisexual instead of heterosexual, doesn't mean she is. 

 

So while I get your point, I disagree with it. And devoted relationships is not the same thing. 

 

 

Not having options for marriage is not really the same as representation.  It's a story that you want to see.  It's a story that falls in line with your particular belief system, but it's not 'representation' in the same way that minority groups ask for representation.  You are talking about wanting to see a particular plot in the romances.  It's not a fair comparison to say that it's a form representation, which is what your point about inclusiveness is speaking to.  Your request is more in line with people asking for the PC to have more 'renegade' options.  It deals with plot, not representation.

 

I agree that it would be nice to see a variety in the romances.  We've had two out of 17 romances that can end in marriage in the series, if I remember correctly (and I might be wrong there):  Alistair and Sebastian.  So, it's a pretty small number.  And, on top of that, both of them are exclusive to one demographic of PC (straight female humans).  It would be nice to see those mixed up a bit. 

 

 

50/50/0 sounds reasonably distributed? 

 

What does this stat represent?

 

 

And now we are back to people laughing at me. 

 

 

As usual, I think it's inappropriate to openly mock people personally on the boards.  It also disappoints me when I see that happen.

[Andraste_Reborn]

 

I never said mistreating. No, that distinction goes to members of the fanbase. Though the fact Bioware sides with said members doesn't bode well. 

 

When did they do that? When I've seen them comment on threads like this at all, it's mostly been to lock them or tell everyone to simmer down. (It's entirely possible I missed stuff during my three month blackout before the game came out, though.)

[Hanako Ikezawa]

Not having options for marriage is not really the same as representation.  It's a story that you want to see.  It's a story that falls in line with your particular belief system, but it's not 'representation' in the same way that minority groups ask for representation.  You are talking about wanting to see a particular plot in the romances.  It's not a fair comparison to say that it's a form representation, which is what your point about inclusiveness is speaking to.  Your request is more in line with people asking for the PC to have more 'renegade' options.  It deals with plot, not representation.

 

I agree that it would be nice to see a variety in the romances.  We've had two out of 17 romances that can end in marriage in the series, if I remember correctly (and I might be wrong there):  Alistair and Sebastian.  So, it's a pretty small number.  And, on top of that, both of them are exclusive to one demographic of PC (straight female humans).  It would be nice to see those mixed up a bit. 

 

 

 

What does this stat represent?

 

 

 

As usual, I think it's inappropriate to openly mock people personally on the boards.  It also disappoints me when I see that happen.

Did I ever say it was the same as representation? All I'm saying is that Bioware is not inclusive of that mindset, which they aren't since there are no options for it and whenever you bring it up you get teased by the person or were teasing them. If we must use the word representation, I am using the dictionary definition of the word and not the definition that society added to it. I have a thread asking for representation for an orientation, so I know the difference. I knew the difference when I made the thread asking for marriage, despite what Allan said. 

 

The stat was the result of me misreading that post. So I removed it.

 

Thanks. 

 

 

When did they do that? When I've seen them comment on threads like this at all, it's mostly been to lock them or tell everyone to simmer down. (It's entirely possible I missed stuff during my three month blackout before the game came out, though.)

There are two examples that comes to mind. One that was a very curt no when asked about it while with other things they described why they decided to do or not do. The other was Allan's rather offensive response about the Marriage thread I made. There are others, but those two pop up immediately. But that happened during your media blackout. 

[veeia]

I am very thrown by the conflation of wanting there to be marriage in the games (legit) and saying its a representation issue. I don't see marriage as something that merits that level of dialogue, I'm not sure how anyone could.

When we talk about representation, it's specifically to draw attention to how a piece of media treats a group of people who are not only ignored or mistreated across the board in media, but also in real life. It deals with the big picture and how that effects society as a whole and people in those groups specifically.

I'm married, fwiw. I love stories about marriages because I love stories about relationships beyond the attraction phrase. I think there's a whole world of stories out there that haven't been explored about how dynamics change and grow as time goes on. (Not that marriage is required for this, but it's certainly a nice side effect of stories about married couples) I would love more of a focus on long term, committed relationships and how those work. But it's just not the same to me as asking for representation...and that perspective is so alien to me.

Kallen do you understand the distinction I'm drawing there, and believe it's not actually a meaningful one?

[veeia]

Okay, nevermind. I see your post above. I just don't really feel like that distinction comes across from you, sometimes, but my question is answered.

[legbamel]

So while I get your point, I disagree with it. And devoted relationships is not the same thing. 

This is the source of my confusion: is marriage not a devoted relationship?  If I get your objection it's to sex outside marriage, which means you want weddings mid-game if anyone's going to sleep with anyone else.  Personally, that would wreck the entire setting for me because, really, your PC has more important things to do than buy a fancy dress and schedule a honeymoon.  Then again, I don't have a problem with other people sticking parts in other people's parts as long as I don't have to help or run a camera.

[Hanako Ikezawa]

 

I am very thrown by the conflation of wanting there to be marriage in the games (legit) and saying its a representation issue. I don't see marriage as something that merits that level of dialogue, I'm not sure how anyone could.

When we talk about representation, it's specifically to draw attention to how a piece of media treats a group of people who are not only ignored or mistreated across the board in media, but also in real life. It deals with the big picture and how that effects society as a whole and people in those groups specifically.

I'm married, fwiw. I love stories about marriages because I love stories about relationships beyond the attraction phrase. I think there's a whole world of stories out there that haven't been explored about how dynamics change and grow as time goes on. (Not that marriage is required for this, but it's certainly a nice side effect of stories about married couples) I would love more of a focus on long term, committed relationships and how those work. But it's just not the same to me as asking for representation...and that perspective is so alien to me.

Kallen do you understand the distinction I'm drawing there, and believe it's not actually a meaningful one?

 

Okay, nevermind. I see your post above. I just don't really feel like that distinction comes across from you, sometimes, but my question is answered.

Any suggestions for me getting better at that? 

 

 

This is the source of my confusion: is marriage not a devoted relationship?  If I get your objection it's to sex outside marriage, which means you want weddings mid-game if anyone's going to sleep with anyone else.  Personally, that would wreck the entire setting for me because, really, your PC has more important things to do than buy a fancy dress and schedule a honeymoon.  Then again, I don't have a problem with other people sticking parts in other people's parts as long as I don't have to help or run a camera.

It's one of those things where all of one thing is another thing but not all of the other thing is the one thing. You know, like all squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares. So all those who are marriage are(well, should be) in devoted relationships but not all those in devoted relationships are married. You wouldn't say the LIs are married just because they are in a devoted relationship, would you? As for there being no time for marriage, that's nonsense. Not all weddings are huge events. There is an entire type of wedding that is all about being a low key event. If the protagonist has time to have sex for a night, they have time to have a small ceremony.

[legbamel]

As someone who spend about $300 on her entire wedding, including the lemonade and carrot cake, I know not all weddings must be huge.  I also know the game would have to make a great big deal of it or BioWare would take flak from all fronts.  If they're going to have their characters get married they're going to have to have a big wedding, especially in this game where it would be both the political and social event of the season.

 

The ceremony itself is sort of beside the point, though.  I just don't understand why a devoted relationship isn't enough devotion, why having some religious stamp on it makes it magically deeper than it was five minutes before that.

[vertigomez]

I read through this entire thread and--

[Jeremiah12LGeek]

I only wish...

[WhoopinYourA55Mate]

When people keep mixing pansexual with bisexual...

Spoiler

ikr xD

It's same as saying that heterosexual and homosexual is same.People really need to do some serious research about basic stuff before making post as these lol

[Chernaya]

I read through this entire thread and--

 

[Steelcan]

[Andraste_Reborn]

This thread doesn't have enough classic Doctor Who gifs. Here, let's start with pretty much the only good part of the TV movie and work back:

 

[Steelcan]

This thread doesn't have enough classic Doctor Who gifs. Here, let's start with pretty much the only good part of the TV movie and work back:

 

MOAR FIREFLY

 

[Chernaya]

This thread doesn't have enough classic Doctor Who gifs. Here, let's start with pretty much the only good part of the TV movie and work back: