215 réponses à ce sujet

[otis0310]

Much as I hate to be fair to EA, the shitstorm that was Ultima 9 had little to do with EA and we should actually be thankful EA took that studio out back and shot it.

 

Ironically, that studio's name was Origin.

 

 

Uhhh. Actually it was EA that killed Ultima 9,and Ultima 8.  In Ultima 8 they wanted to add platforming and more action based combat to a well beloved RPG series (sound familiar) then they slashed the game right left and center to meet an unrealistic deadline of 1 - 2 years.  The result was a lot of angry people.

 

As for Ultima 9, it is more complicated.  Production of that game started in '94, but it became obvious to EA that Ultima Online could be a smash hit, so they pulled the team off of Ultima 9 to work on Ultima Online so they could speed up its production.  UO came out in '97 and the game engine for U9 was already 3 years old and it wasn't even done yet.  The solution?  Start over from scratch.

 

Well EA didn't think Ultima would sell well because they wanted to make other games at the time.  So in in 1999, after only a year or so of work done on what was supposed to be a massive project, they gave an ultimatum.  "Get it out by christmas or we cancel the project"

 

Sso over the next several months the developers copied and pasted all the work that was done, put it it together into one buggy package and shipped it.  The result was a nonsensical plot that reused cut scenes and dialogue that was obviously intended to be used differently, as well as half finished dungeonsand town and a world map that looked like, and was, half missing.

 

So your idea that EA forcing out a game when they knew that it had over half of the development time left somehow does not make them responsible for the mess is confounding to say the least.

[Farangbaa]

I like your friends; won't even try the game because they know they won't like it.

Psychic-squad

[DaemionMoadrin]

Much as I hate to be fair to EA, the shitstorm that was Ultima 9 had little to do with EA and we should actually be thankful EA took that studio out back and shot it.

 

Ironically, that studio's name was Origin.

 

Origin Systems was one of the most influential developers in the 80s and 90s. The Ultima series, the Wing Commander series and games like Strike Commander were genre defining. They were among the first to use new technologies, too.

EA ruined that studio. Even EA admitted to that later, when the new CEO took over.

 

EA kept the Origin trademark though and is re-using it now for their crappy steam contender.

[Farangbaa]

A flawed perspective...? This should be the only perspective, especially dealing with a series or franchise of a particular game or anything really. But sadly it's not, and some devs, like BW, likes to shove every fact from their previous games into their current games to help new comers catch up. This is bad!! and it really showed in ME3, resulting in a Shepard who would ask questions he'd already knew the answer to. This sort of thing needs to stop. If someone begins a series at the middle or end, and wish to know more about what's going on they should make an effort themselves in finding out that information. It shouldn't be the middle or end part of a series that tells the viewer or player about the beginning part. What's the point of having a beginning if it's explain in the middle or end? BW needs to stop doing this.

My God yes, such an awful business practise, to try and get as many people to play the game to make more profit. AS if making money is the goal of a for-profit organisation.

What where they thinking?

Selling all my stocks right now.

[Rawgrim]

Much as I hate to be fair to EA, the shitstorm that was Ultima 9 had little to do with EA and we should actually be thankful EA took that studio out back and shot it.

 

Ironically, that studio's name was Origin.

 

 

 

 

...uh, Fallout? One of the most influentual rpgs of all time? Made by Black Isle? Same people that made Planescape Torment and published Baldur's Gate? -.-

 

Not a fan of facts are you? EA even admitted they royally screwed up Ultima 8 and, and later Origin.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Not a fan of facts are you? EA even admitted they royally screwed up Ultima 8 and, and later Origin.

 

I've got the Ultima 8 box here. Know what it says?

 

The monumental Ultima series' most compelling adventure yet.

As the heroic Avatar, stranded alone in the peril-infested land of Pagan, the fate of all Britannia rests on your shoulders. Ally yourself with the subjugated natives and survive against a slew of enemies before facing the Evil Guardian.

• Total control over ALL the Avatar's movements.
• Viewpoint and luxuriously rendered art plunge you into the heart of Pagan
• No previous Ultima experience required

"The best role playing game ever" - PC Gamer

"Buy this now - it's the best of it's kind" - PC Home

 

Bwahahahahah.... sounds familiar, doesn't it?

 

I can't believe I played it for so long... and I did play Ultima 9 - Ascension, too. Hey, does Isabela remind you of Raven, too?

Btw... I took my name from Ultima 8.

[Rawgrim]

I've got the Ultima 8 box here. Know what it says?

 

The monumental Ultima series' most compelling adventure yet.

As the heroic Avatar, stranded alone in the peril-infested land of Pagan, the fate of all Britannias rests on your shoulders. Ally yourself with the subjugated natives and survive against a slew of enemies before facing the Evil Guardian.

• Total control over ALL the Avatar's movements.
• Viewpoint and luxuriously rendered art plunge you into the heart of Pagan
• No previous Ultima experience required

"The best role playing game ever" - PC Gamer

"Buy this now - it's the best of it's kind" - PC Home

 

Bwahahahahah.... sounds familiar, doesn't it?

 

I can't believe I played it for so long... and I did play Ultima 9 - Ascension, too. Hey, does Isabela remind you of Raven, too?

Btw... I took my name from Ultima 8.

 

It actually started during Ultima 7. EA had forced a takeover or whatever it was, and forced Origin to rush out Ultima 7 part 2. Ended up being very buggy and clunky. I think Richard Garriott named two villains in Ultima 7 after EA - Elizabeth and Abraham (nice touch).

 

Yeah I see the similarities. I am pretty sure EA would have gotten standing ovations and top scores if they had been the ones to release Colonial Marines, too.

 

Isabela has looks a bit like Raven, I guess.

 

My avatar pic is from the remake of Ultima V, actually. The guys behind it did a sick job. Superb game.

[Rawgrim]

Don't get me wrong. Inquisition is waaaaaay better than Ultima 8 and 9. Better than DA2, as well. But certain odd design choices in it drag it down from Great to Mediocre.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Well, I'd rather play DA2 again than DA:I but otherwise I agree.

[Rawgrim]

Well, I'd rather play DA2 again than DA:I but otherwise I agree.

 

I want to play DA:I, but I can't. A bug is keeping me from progressing in a main story quest. Second time this has happened, actually. Last time I had to restart the whole thing. 20 hours down the drain. 50 more if a patch doesn't fix this bit.

[Uccio]

I spoke two of my friends out of buying it. Not out of spite though, they are like minded when it comes to rpg´s. I did give them option to check it out on my pc, if they would change their mind. Now they will wait for the super-sale.

[Rawgrim]

Yes I also think so. Stupid thing is that even when Inquisition seems better than DA2, very beautiful world to explore and so on, the odd design choices (little things) in Inquisition frustrate me in gameplay so much that I would rather play DA2

 

I love how the gameworld looks. Especially the Storm Coast. Superb. But the combat, the rotten AI, and the overload of empty filler quests ruins the game. Or not ruins it, but makes huge parts of it damn boring.

[Rawgrim]

I was going to buy the game after I had played Pillars of Eternity, but Pillar got pushed back, so I didn't really have anything to play. Ended up buying DA on release day.

[Xhaiden]

So your idea that EA forcing out a game when they knew that it had over half of the development time left somehow does not make them responsible for the mess is confounding to say the least.

 

Its way more muddy than that. We're talking about a title that was rebuilt from the ground up a couple of times ( often due to fan backlash ) and a development team that was rife with infighting. Garriot was there at the beginning and the end of the development and has admitted the entire idea of redoing the game in 3D ( Instead of the 2D engine from Crusader No Remorse )  with a focus on action was a terrible mistake on his part ( and it was that switch to 3D that was its downfall really ). Garriot also coped to dissappointing fans with the changes made to the core gameplay in Ultima 8. Garriot was also deeply involved in company policy at Origin so this wasn't just EA commanding them to make poor decisions.

 

This wasn't a case of an innocent studio being killed by the big bad publisher. Everyone involved sucks. The studio was already unravelling and Ultima 9 was a mess either way. It was in development hell for 5 years and most of its main staff jumped ship. Leaving just Garriot and Miller as original staff members from Ultima 7. It was a studio full of people who had no idea what Ultima was working on Ultima  ( What's a paladin? ). This wasn't the same studio that made Ultima 7 or Wing Commander or anything of note. It really should have been cancelled outright instead of thrown out the door for a cash grab.

 

But well, out the door for a cashgrab is EA.

 

 

 

 

I've got the Ultima 8 box here. Know what it says?

 

I've actually got Ultima 9 here somewhere, Maker help me. Let me dig it out and see if it has any quotes....

 

Hah. nope, just a plug for Ultima Online 2. Which it promises is "Coming in 2000".

 

[Alan Drifter13]

Meanwhile, I have three friends who have never played a Dragon Age game before (despite hearing me babble about it ever since DAO came out) who are now playing Inquisition. They all like it so far.

 

This is anecdata, of course, but my social circle is at least as significant as the OP's (by which I mean tiny and statistically meaningless.)

 

Me too. I have friends who never played the series and bought DA:I. I don't have any friends who played the previous games and didn't play this one.

 

Also... "dumbed-down"? What do you think DA:O was, a master in quantum physics? I played the game and neither the story or the game mechanics were much harder than DA:I. You people need to stop your nostalgia/resistance to change. It's really messing with your perception of reality.

[DaemionMoadrin]

Its way more muddy than that. We're talking about a title that was rebuilt from the ground up a couple of times ( often due to fan backlash ) and a development team that was rife with infighting. Garriot was there at the beginning and the end of the development and has admitted the entire idea of redoing the game in 3D ( Instead of the 2D engine from Crusader No Remorse )  with a focus on action was a terrible mistake on his part ( and it was that switch to 3D that was its downfall really ). Garriot also coped to dissappointing fans with the changes made to the core gameplay in Ultima 8. Garriot was also deeply involved in company policy at Origin so this wasn't just EA commanding them to make poor decisions.

 

This wasn't a case of an innocent studio being killed by the big bad publisher. Everyone involved sucks. The studio was already unravelling and Ultima 9 was a mess either way. It was in development hell for 5 years and most of its main staff jumped ship. Leaving just Garriot and Miller as original staff members from Ultima 7. It was a studio full of people who had no idea what Ultima was working on Ultima  ( What's a paladin? ). This wasn't the same studio that made Ultima 7 or Wing Commander or anything of note. It really should have been cancelled outright instead of thrown out the door for a cash grab.

 

But well, out the door for a cashgrab is EA.

 

 

True. All good things come to an end. It's just that EA hastens that process often.

How many good developers ceased to exist because of EA? The list is long and includes pioneers like Westwood and Bullfrog.

 

The situation we have now is this: There are some gigantic publishers dominating the market: EA, UbiSoft and so on. They aren't going to risk their profits by giving any new innovative game a chance because it might fail, they rather publish sequels of establishes franchises. And they fight hard for every share of the market.

So a developer has two choices: Stay independent and risk never getting any publicity or reaching the target audience ... or sign on with one of the big publishers, who will then take over and change your game to fit into their model.

 

That's why we are getting bland, generic crap these days. As long as we continue to feed this trend, it is not going to change. DA:I is not generic crap but we can see the trend. If we don't protest now, then the next DA sequel will only be worse.

 

Once BioWare's good reputation is gone completely, once they are no longer known to release excellent games... then EA will step in and "reorganize". I doubt BioWare will have any more luck than all the other developers before them.

[Rawgrim]

Me too. I have friends who never played the series and bought DA:I. I don't have any friends who played the previous games and didn't play this one.

 

Also... "dumbed-down"? What do you think DA:O was, a master in quantum physics? I played the game and neither the story or the game mechanics were much harder than DA:I. You people need to stop your nostalgia/resistance to change. It's really messing with your perception of reality.

 

Of course DA:O wasn't that advanced. But it did let the players equip whatever they want, and it gave the player full freedom when it came to creating their own character.  That bit is gone now. Most of the spells and abilities, as well. The list goes on. DA:I hardly requires you to think about anything at all. It is impossible to fail in this game through bad choices. You suffer no setbacks either, because the villain is passive. Just sits there as you take things away from him.

[Elhanan]

Agreed to Failure, as there is no dumbing down in game. There is some questionable change that should be addressed for future games, but with the myriad of questions that appear just here on BSN, it seems unlikely that the game was overly simplified.

[Alan Drifter13]

Of course DA:O wasn't that advanced. But it did let the players equip whatever they want, and it gave the player full freedom when it came to creating their own character. 

 

No, you characters' options were restricted by class and specialization (which is ok, by the way). DA:O just had a few more skills in the skill-tree, but since you would only use the best ones, the practical outcome was only that you simply wasted more time by reading/using the useless ones.

 

Also, in DA:O you could "see" the enemies in your radar behind the door, send Morrigan to the door, create a blizzard inside their room... and they would take a ridiculous amount of time to even open the door to try to fight you. Some of them would even die from the blizzard inside the room before doing anything. Now THAT was dumb.

 

That the same piece of armor can be used by both a dwarf and a qunari is dumb (and it happened in DA:O). King Cailan's strategy to face the blight was dumb. Alistair was dumb. Having a romantic dialog in the middle of a quest, surrounded by the other companions, was dumb. On the contrary, a fast-paced combat system built to fit the both the multi-player and the single-player experience is just a fast-paced combat system built to fit both experiences.

 

*Don't get me wrong, I liked DA:O. I'm just tired of people idealizing games from the past just because things change.

[Alan Drifter13]

Oh, and by the way, they didn't fail. 

 

- According to the current numbers in VGchartz, DA:I sold, in less then 2 months, pretty much the same amount that DA2 in 3 years. It's also about 1/4 of the DA:O numbers already (considering total DA:O sales since 2009).

- It's leading the GOTY voting for 2014 in pretty much every major gaming site.

- There are already thousands of people playing MP worldwide, and this number will only grow as more players finish the SP campaign. So the game has another (larger) monetization option.

 

Disregarding what the friends of OP say, it seems pretty obvious that DA:I will make more money than any of the previous DA games. And all of that coming from a game (DA2) that had been considered a failure by pretty much everyone.

[Vader20]

No, you characters' options were restricted by class and specialization (which is ok, by the way). DA:O just had a few more skills in the skill-tree, but since you would only use the best ones, the practical outcome was only that you simply wasted more time by reading/using the useless ones.

 

Also, in DA:O you could "see" the enemies in your radar behind the door, send Morrigan to the door, create a blizzard inside their room... and they would take a ridiculous amount of time to even open the door to try to fight you. Some of them would even die from the blizzard inside the room before doing anything. Now THAT was dumb.

 

That the same piece of armor can be used by both a dwarf and a qunari is dumb (and it happened in DA:O). King Cailan's strategy to face the blight was dumb. Alistair was dumb. Having a romantic dialog in the middle of a quest, surrounded by the other companions, was dumb. On the contrary, a fast-paced combat system built to fit the both the multi-player and the single-player experience is just a fast-paced combat system built to fit both experiences.

 

*Don't get me wrong, I liked DA:O. I'm just tired of people idealizing games from the past just because things change.

Nobody has a problem with things changing.. It depends on HOW things change. It doesn't mean that they change for the better. And while DAI is an enjoyable game, some things didn't go in the right direction.

 

DAO had some nice features which could have been improved further in future releases, but no... Ditching and simplifying is always a winner nowdays.

 

I'm happy that it sells well btw.

[MisterJB]

This is ridiculous.

Dead Space 2 began the dumbing down long before Dead Space 3.