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is it worth playing any class but Infiltrator?


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#26
L. Han

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I'm not intentionally being smug, but the game is quite easy even on Insanity.

 

I've played engineer, soldier, infiltrator, and vanguard. The strategies most of the time just revolve around sitting behind cover and holding M1. Seriously, with some tech based teammates and they will frequently use powers that work well with your incendiary rounds.



#27
Dr. Rush

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Every class can be very powerful. Sniping doesn't really do it for me, but tech bursting was a lot of fun for me, so I prefer a good engineer build with an assault rifle. 


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#28
JoeTheQuarian

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I prefer to go vanguard. At least when playing on insanity. Not only is it just fun but with the combo of Charge and Nova you can constantly do a lot of damage and gain shields. Of course for this strategy getting the upgrade for charge that gives it a 50% chance of having to cool down is required.



#29
CroGamer002

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Engineer class is OP as hell in ME3.

 

Then again, ME3 is easy as hell so it's hard to tell.



#30
JeffZero

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I don't play enough for ME3 on Insanity to be easy for me, but I guess I've noticed it's a bit easier to handle than ME2's. The fact that so many fans say it's an easier game means I certainly believe it, though.

Weird since the devs said they were trying to make it harder.

#31
CroGamer002

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They did tried. A.I. is lot more challenging.

 

However, only in multiplayer.

 

There's just too few enemies in SP to fight against and level design is just damn terrible so enemy A.I. can't fight back properly.



#32
JeffZero

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Ahh, I see. :/

Is level design really so bad though? I would say it's the best in 3, but I'm not really qualified to dissect everything and cite reasons why.

I just like how they look and how it isn't as obvious that it's all cover-grabbing. >_>

#33
CroGamer002

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It's pretty bad. It's too damn linear and A.I. is just unable to flank you and can only attack you with suicidal charges.

 

Only exceptions to it are SP missions that use MP maps and Grissom Academy mission.



#34
JeffZero

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Ah, yeah. I guess that is true. Explains why Grissom is so randomly hard relative to most of the rest of the game.

#35
CroGamer002

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Yeah, it's one of my favorite levels. And it has Jack being awesome. Also only level where you can use ATLAS Mech for lengthy time.


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#36
Element Zero

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I don't play enough for ME3 on Insanity to be easy for me, but I guess I've noticed it's a bit easier to handle than ME2's. The fact that so many fans say it's an easier game means I certainly believe it, though.
Weird since the devs said they were trying to make it harder.


I suspect most people who think this way simply haven't tried playing on Insanity for any length of time. It is seriously ridiculously easy. The only real dangers are turrets and grenades. By the end of Mars, most people should be used to the faster rate at which enemies can put out damage. Unless you never take cover, there's barely a difference in how the game plays on Insanity.

#37
JeffZero

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I'm only doing my first ever Insanity run now, usually I've played the games on Veteran/Hardcore. I do recall thinking ME3 on Normal was at times almost patronizingly easy, haha. And coming from me that's saying something... I don't game much! It had to be Hardcore almost straight out the gate, whereas with ME2 if I haven't played in a long time I can still make stupid mistakes in places like Archangel's recruitment mission even on Veteran. I think 2 is definitely the most combat-challenging chapter of Shepard's journey.

1 is just weird. The first few hours are Sudden Death Mode after Eden Prime and then it's practically ME3 Narrative Mode.
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#38
CroGamer002

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I do recall thinking ME3 on Normal was at times almost patronizingly easy, haha.

Try to play Sentinel on Narrative difficulty.

 

It's like you have a God mode on.


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#39
Element Zero

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The only games I'd ever be temped to use an Easy difficulty for are games like DAI, in which I'm desperate to just end the game. I strongly considered bumping that one down to Easy at the 85-90 hrs mark. Ultimately, I decided that combat difficulty really wasn't slowing the game, so I left it alone. Ugh, the grind...

Once you get used to playing certain styles of games on harder difficulties, it's impossible to go back, I think. I always play the Uncharted games on Crushing difficulty. It's not all that bad, you just have to be smart and efficient, especially in a few of the tougher fights. Enemies flank and press their advantage much better in that series than in ME. At any rate, I picked up a controller at a friends house and fought a battle while he was hitting the restroom. I asked him if it was on Easy, and he laughed and said no. I guess it may have been Normal? I believe he might think I'm crazy for playing on Crushing by default.

I wish their were more 3rd person shooters. I hate 1st person games and don't play them. They physically nauseate me, and they annoy me. I think they are a relic of days before beautiful character models were possible. The PC shooter crowd got used to it, and lazy developers stuck with it. Now, it's here to stay. I occasionally miss out on some cool stuff, but it's not worth the headache, nausea and annoyance for me.

#40
JeffZero

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Uncharted is one of the only other game series I play! I like it. I've only played on Normal before and it was plenty difficult for me but you're talking to someone who probably played a grand total of three new games between 2004 and 2010, I was pretty timid when I got started on Uncharted, Mass Effect, and whatever else I got into at that point... which... I can't think of anything offhand. :P


I've only played each Uncharted once but I think 2 in particular is absolutely incredible. If I ever play it again I'll dare to go Crushing, but I'm warning you, I'll probably end up Screaming!

#41
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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I don't play enough for ME3 on Insanity to be easy for me, but I guess I've noticed it's a bit easier to handle than ME2's. The fact that so many fans say it's an easier game means I certainly believe it, though.

Weird since the devs said they were trying to make it harder.


I don't think it's much easier at all.

I think people got used to playing MP and suddenly think it's easier. There may have been a few balance changes that shifted things, but overall I think that's it ^^^. It was the case for me. Played a few rounds of Bronze, got curbstomped, finally won a match or two, and suddenly Normal single-player was a breeze (was never hard, but now it was trivial).

I didn't feel ME2 was particularly difficult, at least for a sniper. That first rifle, whatever it's called, is powerful enough to headshot any humanoid non-boss, and then you get the Viper. Viper. Hnnnnnnng.

#42
Element Zero

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I don't think it's much easier at all.I think people got used to playing MP and suddenly think it's easier. There may have been a few balance changes that shifted things, but overall I think that's it ^^^. It was the case for me. Played a few rounds of Bronze, got curbstomped, finally won a match or two, and suddenly Normal single-player was a breeze (was never hard, but now it was trivial).I didn't feel ME2 was particularly difficult, at least for a sniper. That first rifle, whatever it's called, is powerful enough to headshot any humanoid non-boss, and then you get the Viper. Viper. Hnnnnnnng.


I've never played MP, myself. I'm not that sociable, I guess, though this was the first game to really tempt me. If I had an XBL Gold account, I'd have definitely played. That said, MP would be great training for SP. I've heard SP Insanity compared to MP Silver difficulty. That's telling.

Everyone's experience is different. I've beaten each on Insanity within the last week, and still find ME2 significantly more challenging. (I completed ME2 last week with a Setinel, and imported to ME3 as an Adept and completed today). The lack of devastating combos and more significant enemy defenses make ME2 tougher, in my opinion.

I like ME3's gameplay more, but I would've liked a more challenging difficulty setting. I'd prefer to see this accomplished by improving enemy AI. I mentioned Uncharted, earlier. The enemies in that series are very aggressive. They will flank and destroy you if you don't make sound decisions and shoot well. (Assuming you play on Crushing difficulty). With ME3 Insanity, the only difference I noticed was that enemies inflict more damage. You can't walk around outside of cover all day (unless you've built for that, I guess) and grenades and turrets become lethal.

#43
Element Zero

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I was thinking of finally playing as an Engineer. I didn't care for it in ME2, since I don't really enjoy the drone powers. I never gave it a fair shake in ME3, preferring Biotic combos to Tech combos. I need to try it out, I think. That said, this thread is making me want to build another Infiltrator.

Ugh. The weighty decisions in life.

#44
Guest_EntropicAngel_*

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I've never played MP, myself. I'm not that sociable, I guess, though this was the first game to really tempt me. If I had an XBL Gold account, I'd have definitely played. That said, MP would be great training for SP. I've heard SP Insanity compared to MP Silver difficulty. That's telling.

Everyone's experience is different. I've beaten each on Insanity within the last week, and still find ME2 significantly more challenging. (I completed ME2 last week with a Setinel, and imported to ME3 as an Adept and completed today). The lack of devastating combos and more significant enemy defenses make ME2 tougher, in my opinion.

I like ME3's gameplay more, but I would've liked a more challenging difficulty setting. I'd prefer to see this accomplished by improving enemy AI. I mentioned Uncharted, earlier. The enemies in that series are very aggressive. They will flank and destroy you if you don't make sound decisions and shoot well. (Assuming you play on Crushing difficulty). With ME3 Insanity, the only difference I noticed was that enemies inflict more damage. You can't walk around outside of cover all day (unless you've built for that, I guess) and grenades and turrets become lethal.

 

Yeah I think Bioware's had a problem with increasing difficulty for a while now.



#45
CrazyCatDude

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Vanguard is my favorite. There is a definite adrenaline junkie quality to it. In ME2, Vanguard was weird in that it actually got easier the higher you set the difficulty. Playing Vanguard on normal meant you ended up chasing flying enemies all over the map to finish them off. One you turned difficulty up to where even husks had armor, vanguard was suddenly easy mode. It was POSSIBLE in ME2 to get yourself into trouble on a vanguard if you didn't pay attention. In ME3, vanguard is still stupid amounts of fun, but it's almost too easy. Not counting the charge glitch on Omega, I think I might have died a grand total of three times in ME3. Every single one of those was a Banshee one shot kill during the London missile defense mission when the game starts throwing four of them at you at a time.

I like Infiltrator a lot to. The only class I don't like is Soldier.

#46
Element Zero

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Uncharted is one of the only other game series I play! I like it. I've only played on Normal before and it was plenty difficult for me but you're talking to someone who probably played a grand total of three new games between 2004 and 2010, I was pretty timid when I got started on Uncharted, Mass Effect, and whatever else I got into at that point... which... I can't think of anything offhand. :P
I've only played each Uncharted once but I think 2 in particular is absolutely incredible. If I ever play it again I'll dare to go Crushing, but I'm warning you, I'll probably end up Screaming!

Haha. Crushing is definitely drastically more difficult than Normal. Uncharted is not ME, either, where you have Kinetic Barriers, Health, Medigel and Power Evolutions standing between you and death. I don't even use Medigel on Insanity. I die when playing Uncharted.

#47
Daemul

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ME3's Insanity is NOT easy, there's a reason only 4% of players have ever gotten the achievement for beating the game on Insanity, it's borderline impossible for anyone who hasn't invested numerous hours into learning the games mechanics.

And no, MP Gold is not actually harder than Insanity, there's two factors which give the illusion that it is.

1. Weapon balancing is different in SP. Weapons like the Venom and Suppressor are heavily nerfed in MP, but you can still use them in all their glory in SP.

2. Shepard. Shepard is far more powerful than any MP character, none of them get anywhere near close to him. He has more powers, his cooldowns are faster, he does more damage, he has more health and shields, he can pause the game by bringing up the tactical wheel and survey the area, his squadmates are more reliable since he can control them and create combos on a regular basis with them instead of having to rely on having competent human controlled characters who know what they're doing, he gets ridiculous armour and intel research bonuses etc, etc

If we could use SP balanced weapons and bring our Shepard's into MP, Gold and Platinum would feel like playing on Bronze. The devs don't allow us to do that for good reasons, and its why when people play MP for so long and then come back to SP, they find it so easy. They've become so used to using weak characters and nerfed weapons that when they come to SP it's like entering heaven.
 

Also, ME2's Insanity is a joke. You complain about enemies being stupid and not flanking in ME3? ME2 has it beat in that department. Atleast in ME3 enemies have grenades and stuff which force you to move, in ME2 you can pretty much hide in cover all day and pick off enemies. The extra protection does nothing other than make it take a few seconds longer to kill them, something which can also be achieved by giving enemies more health.

 

The only truly hard fights on Insanity in ME2 were the last part of Horizon and that damn platform fight on the disabled collector ship, the rest of the game was a stroll. Bioware tried to make the Object Rho fight on the same level as the Horizon and platform level fights I feel, but the problem was that everyone was already level 30, had all weapons and had maxed out all research by the time we played the Arrival DLC, so it wasn't really a challenge staying alive for those 5 waves. If you played as a Vanguard, Soldier or Sentinel, you could stay alive whilst playing with your eyes closed.

 

I've never played MP, myself. I'm not that sociable, I guess, though this was the first game to really tempt me. If I had an XBL Gold account, I'd have definitely played. That said, MP would be great training for SP. I've heard SP Insanity compared to MP Silver difficulty. That's telling.

Everyone's experience is different. I've beaten each on Insanity within the last week, and still find ME2 significantly more challenging. (I completed ME2 last week with a Setinel, and imported to ME3 as an Adept and completed today). The lack of devastating combos and more significant enemy defenses make ME2 tougher, in my opinion.


People who compare Insanity to Silver have no idea what they're talking about. Insanity enemy AI, stats and health are the exact same as Gold's and unlike in Gold and Platinum, shieldgate is still at 100% on Insanity, whereas it's been reduced to 75% on Gold and Platinum due to some people crying about not being able to one shot kill shielded enemies with their beloved sniper rifles.

How the hell did you find ME2 Insanity significantly more difficult when you were playing as a Sentinel? Sentinels were broken in ME2, you could abuse the hell out of the Tech Armor auto detonate, it got (rightfully) nerfed in ME3 for a damn good reason.


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#48
Vazgen

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I'd argue that one does not need intricate knowledge of game mechanics to stroll through Insanity, at least on some classes. Here is an example of a non-imported Adept character casually strolling through Mars

Even if a player does not know about biotic combos (which are mentioned in loading screen tips if I'm not mistaken), he can easily resort to simply using Singularity and shooting helpless enemies. Ridiculous cooldowns of biotic powers make the game much less challenging. There are, of course, hard fights on Insanity but they don't even come close to ME2 IMO. I just started a NG+ on ME2 to try something and got killed 5 times on Lazarus and Freedom Progress. 


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#49
CroGamer002

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I was thinking of finally playing as an Engineer. I didn't care for it in ME2, since I don't really enjoy the drone powers. I never gave it a fair shake in ME3, preferring Biotic combos to Tech combos. I need to try it out, I think. That said, this thread is making me want to build another Infiltrator.

Ugh. The weighty decisions in life.

HERETIC!



#50
capn233

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There is just so much in this thread...

 

Why play a class other than infiltrator?

 

In regards to the question by OP, he pretty much answered his own question.  You would want to play the other classes because they don't play like infiltrator.  And 3 of them are not as unbalanced.  I agree with others that you can make a good case for Vanguard being the actual best class in SP, given shieldgate, Nova, and IEB ammo.  Sentinel has become unkillable with imported MP changes to TA and Fortification via the patch.  The pure classes lag behind these in power by a small amount, but they are still more than powerful enough to get through ME3.

 

ME3 vs ME2 Insanity Difficulty

 

Whatever the devs may have claimed, the game is easier than ME2, and it is also easier than the starting portions of ME1 on Insanity. They did in fact improve the AI somewhat for ME3.  The enemies are somewhat more intelligent about their positioning, they have the advantage of smoke grenades, real grenades, and ok damage.  But there is a lot more to total difficulty than just the AI.

 

One of the drastic differences between the AI in ME3 and back in ME2 is the accuracy.  In ME2 the AI was practically always locked on and if you were in line of sight, you were going to be hit.  This is not the case in ME3 where enemy accuracy starts off poor and then moves to accurate while you are in the LOS.  Lock time varies depending on system fps from 6 seconds at 30fps to 3 seconds at 30fps.  This allows you to cover distances larger than what the relative shields would allow you on their own in comparison to ME2.

 

Besides the accuracy, being out of cover is punished a little less in ME3.  You have real dodges that grant DR, and you can use "right hand advantage." In ME2 RHA is frustrating to attempt because Shepard will point his weapon up in the air if you get too close to cover without docking, and so you have to expose more of the character to even attempt to use it.

 

Enemy composition was also weakened in ME3.  Despite the fact that there was now 100% shieldgate for enemies on Insanity, the vast majority of enemies encountered were unprotected.  This is in contrast to ME2 Insanity where every enemy is protected and so cannot be CC'd in one step.

 

Then you have the retooled combo system.  Since practically everything makes a combo, and combos do better overall damage than the powers themselves (for the most part), you can basically go through the game CCing unprotected mobs then comboing, then repeating until infinity.  In ME2 you either had to spend one of the squad's cooldowns to strip protections first or use weapons fire to strip them before you could get to the CC step.  And at that point there was only one AOE combo that was even possible.

 

ME3 SP Insanity vs MP Gold

 

Any discussion would need to start with what actually makes for a valid comparison between the two.  Many people think that Shepard and squad should be compared to a Gold solo, since there is only one player, but personally I find that comparison absurd.  Apples to apples if you care to use the squaddies would be a Gold squad of the player in question and 2 similarly skilled players.

 

At release, SP and Gold shared practically every stat, from enemy HP to weapon damage.  There was fairly large divergence after MP DLC's and balance changes, followed by a little realignment after the last two patches.

 

In general, the AI is the same between the two modes.  However, most Gold units have received HP buffs.  This offset by the fact that Gold MP units only have 75% shieldgate compared to 100% in SP.

 

Weapons in SP and MP are largely balanced the same ever since the last patch, with the exception of SP DLC guns, which are pretty overpowered.  However, the depowered MP Venom is still one of the best guns in the mode.

 

One key point that is often forgotten is that many of the MP DLC characters are pretty drastically superior to Shepard.  It doesn't matter that Shepard can have more active powers if he only has 1 shared cooldown to operate them.  As a thought experiment, imagine playing SP as a Talon GI with Armored Compartments, Pistol Amp 3, and CM 4.  Shepard doesn't get to throw on 100 or 150% shield bonuses at whim, and doesn't usually even have the base shields of many MP characters.  His only real advantage is a bit more starting encumbrance (75 regardless of class in SP).  Or imagine a Batarian Soldier with Grenade Capacity 5 and thermal clip packs in SP.  Shepard isn't really ever as powerful.

 

Otherwise the main thing Gold has that SP doesn't is more enemies over a set amount of time.  And one or two waves have a terrible composition that you never get in SP (like Cerberus 10).  So on the whole there are a few waves that are probably worse, and maybe that makes Gold more difficult than SP overall.  But it isn't like it is hugely more difficult if you compare them in an honest way, IMO.

 

Platinum is a different story, predominantly because of the shortened gate durations.  If you change SP to platinum gate durations it gets significantly more difficult instantly.


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