43 réponses à ce sujet

[Belz007]

Pardon my ignorance but what does OGB stands for? I keep seeing it repeatedly.

[Shelidon]

Its exactly the same scene except she is not putting a soul in the mirror.

Uhm... I recall her tampering with the mirror in the same way, and I didn't find on youtube a video different from what I got. are you sure about this?

[jlb524]

Pardon my ignorance but what does OGB stands for? I keep seeing it repeatedly.

Old God Baby aka Kieran aka Morrigan's son with Urthemiel's soul

[yankblan]

So pissed my Solas quest was bugged and couldn't complete it; feels like I missed something after the epilogue with Mithral

[Arlee]

Uhm... I recall her tampering with the mirror in the same way, and I didn't find on youtube a video different from what I got. are you sure about this?

 

It is exactly the same regardless if you had the OGB or not. In that scene she is sending something through right before he arrives. Either way we don't know what it was.

[Lucky Thirteen]

So pissed my Solas quest was bugged and couldn't complete it; feels like I missed something after the epilogue with Mithral

 

Did you watch after the credits? Go watch after the credits if you haven't.

[yankblan]

No, I have, just mean that I missed the personal quest and maybe there was a bit of info there, too.

[Robert Trevelyan]

In my own playthrough Flemeth took the OGB soul from Keiran, but I never got the impression from that final cutscene that the Soul was being sent throught the Mirror.

 

All I see was Flemeth in some way touching the Eluvian as if to activate it. It's certainly not a clear act at all, probably intentionally designed to be left as ambiguous.

[Precursor Meta]

Yeah I feel the same way as the OP.
 
By the end of the game the following happens or can be speculated on *Major Spoilers*:
 
 
-  Fen'Harel didn't betray the gods after all and the end of Elven civilization occurred due to the assassination of Mythal and civil war, rather than the imprisonment of the gods.  That means Tevinter at the very most invaded and took the scraps/ashes of a fallen empire that had already collapsed to infighting.  Verdict:  Fen'Harel is not that bad of a guy...  god.
 
-  It's also hinted in a diety codex (the one at the Temple of Mythal about Fen'Harel) that evidence and ancient elven texts/artifacts never refer to him as a god of trickery or mention anything about him being a traitor like the Dalish believe.  Instead all evidence, being very little, points to him being a God of Rebellion/Freedom or the like.
 
-  Flemeth is Mythal and seems partially unwilling or unable to help "The People" (Elves) directly.  This becomes more evident when challenged on this topic with my Lavellan Inquisitor as Mythal appears to be more concerned about vengeance against those who slew her.  The most she does is "nudge/push" events in her favour.
 
-  Solas is Fen'harel and unlike Mythal, is very concerned about the situation of elves and their ignorance of what once was.  Solas' "my experiences in the fade" line is actually code for "when I was a god in ancient times."
 
-  Solas gave the orb up to Cory because he was too weak to use it himself after initially "reawakening."
 
-  Solas loses the orb forever during final Cory battle because the falling fortress crushed it and broke it into pieces.  Which leads to plan B.
 
-  Solas visits Flemeth/Mythal and takes or is given her soul(s) since as he states, he should be the one to suffer the consequences of his own actions, but "the people" need him more than her.
 
Now why do "the people" need him more?  Because Solas as Fen'Harel is likely the Elven God of Rebellion.  One way or another every single elf is oppressed or under the influence of human civilization.  Who better than Fen'Harel to lead them out of servitude and restore elven civilization after thousands of years of oppression?  He was likely going to use the orb as a means to restore himself to "godhood" but was too weak.  So he instead willingly gave it up to Cory letting him activate it, then would try and get it back once that occurred.  That's why he's at the Temple of Sacred Ashes in the beginning.  Unfortunately things got complicated (DA:I plot) and by the end it broke.  The only way to regain the power of old then was to take the remaining known/accessible power of gods in Thedas:  His long lost friend Mythal and the dragon soul she recently acquired if it was saved.  Now we have the weakened god souls of Fen'Harel, Mythal and possibly Urthemiel all in one entity (Solas).  This may be close to or enough power for Solas/Fen'Harel to realize his true goals, which seems to be restoring elven civilization.
 
As a side note, it was funny the first thing that popped into my mind after reading that codex about Fen'Harel's true portfolio post-ending, was all the advice Solas tried to give Sera on being a rebel/Red Jenny leader.  He really seemed to know his stuff and if he truly is a God of Rebellion or something similar to that, I think Sera should have paid a little more attention to what he had to say. lol
 
Anyways I think based on the above we can safely say the rise of Fen'Harel, and the Elves in general as he "works his magic" on Thedas, is not too far in the future.  Either the main plot or a major subplot of the next installment and/or a DLC/Expansion for DA:I.  I actually hope it's the latter for various reasons.

I just wonder how Solas will bring about the rebirth of the Elven glory and what that means for the other races of Thedas?

[Uhh.. Jonah]

Sounds like another name for the Solas romance.

[Eliastion]

<spoilers ahead; though this whole topic is ful, of them>

 

I must say that when it comes to Solas, some things don't seem all that clear. I mean - we get some first-hand-ish stories about elven gods, we learn that Mythal got murdered and Fen'Harel was NOT responisble, we learn that Elvhenan fell more because of a civil war than due to invasion (not that invasion didn't happen, we can assume it actually did, but was pretty opportunistic).

 

The problem is that most bad thinks we learn about elven gods are one-sided tales we hear from Fen'Harel himself. To what extent can he be trusted? To what extent can his own memory be trusted?

The problem is that Solas is NOT trustworthy. He lies to you the whole time about everything, from the Orb to his involvement, to who he is... He's a consumate liar, that's for sure. And then there are minor details, like the fact of him actually enjoying the cutthroat Game of Orlais and how the two judgements for the big bad of Winter Palace are: humiliation as a jester OR making her plot and scheme on, just this time with you trying to control her and benefit from it. He disapproves of sending her to work physically though. He cares not for her being taught a lesson, he approves of what's more interesting. "Noble struggle" or "rebellion"? Perhaps. But I wouldn't forget the "trickster" aspect so quickly, not based on simple Codex excerpt from modern research on the subject...

 

Another problem is personality Solas has. And that is not as pretty as some people would like to believe. This guy has an ego the size of Ferelden. And though he cares about "the people" he does it while also completely despising every single group of elves mentioned or shown. Dalish are idiots with false legends, city elves are ignorant beggars who don't need knowledge, he doesn't even bother to try to educate them... and then there are the temple guardians who "cling to the past because they lack power to restore it". So, one would ask - WHO are those people he actually wants to help? Because it seems Like Solas has some idea about going back to what was and doesn't even TRY to understand modern elves. He hardly sees them as people worthy of his attention. He's positively shocked when he learns the Dalish possibly gave birth to one elf he actually kinda respects. Or even loves, but, of course not enough to actually tell her the truth or give her a say about his "it's better if we're not together".

 

Basically, Solas lives up to his name. He's extremely proud and patronizing. His banter claim that he once thought he knew all the answers? He's STILL at it. In fact, I'm pretty certain, based on some banter with Cole and some dialogue, that Fen'Harel did actually trick all the gods and locked them away from the world. But it was not out of spite - he indeed was a god of rebellion, but part of the deal was the fact that he hated the non-ideal status quo. Being also prideful and convinced of his own genius, he decided that it was the other gods who were directly responsible for slavery, for example, and otherwise everything that was wrong with Elvhenan. And to some extent he was right - presence of gods stabilized the situation, and their conflicts brought conflicts within the elven empire itself. Then Mythal got murdered - and that was really bad since she was de-facto leader of the pantheon and its voice of reason. After she died, gods probably started to blame each other - they were weaker than ever and their influence over mortals (if we can call ancient elves that) threatened to become destructive... So the oh-so-clever Fen'Harel decided to take things into his own paws, convinced that he's the only one who knows what's right and just, the others with their own ideas and ambitions obviously being tyrants...

And then, well, things changed:

The gods got locked out (Mythal possibly avoiding it by being dead).

Elvhenan, suddenly devoid of divine guidance, fell into chaos and then civil war.

Everything went to hell.

Fen'Harel who "liberated" Elvhenan from their gods after countless retelling by now-mortal slaves of shemlen didn't fare too well, relegated in time to position of traitor-god who did it all just for kicks while the other gods got idealized.

After Fen'Harel awoken not that long ago, nobody liked him, elves were a shadow of what he remembered (and definitely not more free). And when he went to Dalish to tell them they're idiots and all their legends are false they (what a surprise) didn't take it too well (and I definitely can see Solas talking to them with about that level of subtlety: "you're all idiots, now listen, I know so much more").

It's little surprise that he quickly went even more bitter than he already was. Now he seeks to help elvhen, but that's not really FOR any actual elvhen that live in this new and terrible day and age. He pretty much sits in the Fade, rejecting the world and dreaming his dream of restoring what once was with little regard for what IS, struggling to grasp reality and pretty much rejecting modern elves. He's kinda pitiful and quite dangerous, in fact... And he DEFINITELY doesn't deserve to be treated as absolute authority regarding ancient elvhen society OR gods. We can probably assume that he doesn't just make things up on the spot to make them look bad - probably there indeed were problems with Falon'Din that led to him being defeated by the other gods, for example... but was it really that he just wanted MOAR FOLLLOWAHS? Or perhaps there were much more nuance to his motivations?

Let's face it: a bitter survivor whose well-intended actions taken against his bretheren were remembered by history as treason for treason's sake isn't the most reliable source of information about things he had a couple thousand years to rationalize... and that's assuming he doesn't intentionally distort the truth.

 

I must say I'm curious about what actually happened and how, and how the ancient gods were and WHAT they were... But I'd really like to learn that also from some sources that aren't Fen'Harel himself

And, when I see questions like this one...

I just wonder how Solas will bring about the rebirth of the Elven glory and what that means for the other races of Thedas? 

 

I worry not only about other races of thedas

I mean, wouldn't restoring elven glory be a bit easier if he actually, I don't know, respected elves and their culture, if only a little, despite this TERRIBLE historical inaccuracy regarding events from two thousands and more years ago?  

[grammagamer1]

There is a codex entry in the Exalted Plaines that tells a bit about the dread wolf and the other elven gods.

 

I've edited this codex entry to save time & space 

 

Fen'Harel: The Dread Wolf

(from "The tale of Fen'harel's triumph" as told by keeper Gisharel of the Ralaferin clan of Dalish elves)

 

There were endless wars waged between the gods the elves loved (the creators, Mythal, Elgar'nan & teachers, Andruil, Sylaise & June)

 

versus others of their kind (terror, spite, malice & pestilence - the forgotten ones).

 

It says the dread wolf kept to himself, didn't care for the people & plotted the betrayal of all the gods.

 

No one remembers the forgotten ones... just names whispered in dreams.. Geldauran, Daern'thal, and Anaris (in fade dreams perhaps??)

 

After the destruction of Arlathan DW "spent centuries in a far corner of the earth giggling madly & hugging himself in glee".

 

DW could walk among the gods of terror, malice, spite & pestilence w/o fear because they knew his cunning ways & considered him one of their own.

 

He was also brother & trusted kin to the benevolent elven gods which is how he convinced, tricked & sealed each side away forever.

 

One side in the abyss the other in the heavens.

 

 

My theories based on this limited info: 

 

1. he went crazy after arlathan was destroyed and took revenge on the gods who caused it/let it happen with their constant warring

 

2. he's seen the light and wants to put things as right as possible for the elven people (could happen)

 

or

 

3. that's the nature of the beast and his game....(the elves have it all wrong & there are magics no one (but him?) should have/be aware of) 

 

    is still on despite a little orb set back.

[DementedSheep]

Yeah I feel the same way as the OP.

 

By the end of the game the following happens or can be speculated on *Major Spoilers*:

 

 

-  Fen'Harel didn't betray the gods after all and the end of Elven civilization occurred due to the assassination of Mythal and civil war, rather than the imprisonment of the gods.  That means Tevinter at the very most invaded and took the scraps/ashes of a fallen empire that had already collapsed to infighting.  Verdict:  Fen'Harel is not that bad of a guy...  god.

*snip*

 

I think he DID betray and imprison the gods, just not Mythal (who was murdered by an unknown party) and not for 'teh lulz' as the Dalish seem to think.

 

He doesn't seem to like the other gods very much aside from Mythal. If you take him to the temple he mentions one of them starting wars intentionally. It doesn't sound like were so "good" after all.  They were also constantly warring with another lot of gods.

 

Solas hates slavery and he hates taking away freedom of thought. If Mythals well can bind you into service to her for all eternity I would think the other gods can do this as well and he would not like this. Even though he seems to be okay with Mythal he doesn't like you being bound to her.

 

He sounds very bitter when he says a real god doesn't need to prove their god hood and it will undo Corypheus as it has "countless fools before him". In dialogue with Cassandra he mentions he doesn't think the old gods were gods unless you stretch the word to the point of absurdity and likes the idea of  a god like the maker who doesn't need to prove he is a god. 

 

When asking what you will do with the power of the well (which he says regardless of if you take it for some reason) depending on what you pick he will either angrily say that while one noble person might walk away from power no group has done so or will ask what would happen if the world you helped create was worse than what was. In both these cases he almost certainly talking from personal experience. 

 

Some of his dialogue with Cole is about a mistake he made that lead to disaster whe he ws younger and thought he knew everything (Goddam with an ego this big after being severely humbled he must have been a **** when he was younger).

 

He attempts to school Sera on how to run a rebellion and set things up afterwords and seems to like the idea of toppling those in power.

 

He talks to Blackwall about war sometimes being necessary even if it's costly. 

 

I'm guessing he started or was involved with a rebellion against the "gods" and then imprisoned them. That was probably what the civil war that tore them apart was about. Now that he see what happened to the elves he regrets it and plans to fix it. Possibly by releasing them again. I'm not sure how Mythals betrayal and murder comes into this. 

[Biotic Flash Kick]

LoL screw that noise

 

solas can find the nearest campfire and burn on it 

 

Unless i can punch solas atleast 5 times in short succession or have a one punch everytime i talk to him like the slap morrigan mod 

then sure yeah

[zeypher]

or we could get to kill the elven gods, thats fine with me too. They were giant douches anyways. If he intends on getting them back i hope i can kill them. Past should stay in the past.

[Beomer]

Bored at work eh? Stride into your bosses' room and say, "Tell me, where is your Maker now? Call him. Call his wrath down upon me. You cannot. For he does not exist."

[Vilegrim]

can we have humans as the villains for once?  I mean come on we are 3 for 3 on elven genocide, I want 3 games of annihilating entire human cities to balance the scales, a million dead shem for every elf killed will do to start.

[zeypher]

Corypheus was human, blights started cause of humans, templars and mages going nuts? humans again. 

[Eliastion]

I think he meant kicking human asses part of "human villains" rather than them being villaneous. I guess he despises the fact that even if you kill humans you're helping (other) humans.
 

or we could get to kill the elven gods, thats fine with me too. They were giant douches anyways.

At least according to someone called the God of Deception  
I do believe they were benevolent beings, generally, just not perfect... and with the tiiiiny problem that people tend to not agree on what "doing good" means. Oh, and then there's solas who works the same way - good intentions but also ego from here to Tevinter Yeah, I agree he needs a friendly punch in the face to set him straight.

 

In dialogue with Cassandra he mentions he doesn't think the old gods were gods unless you stretch the word to the point of absurdity and likes the idea of  a god like the maker who doesn't need to prove he is a god. 

 

Solas apparently doesn't know too much about Cassandra's god OR Cassandra has "her own" Maker, very different from the Chantry's one  

Seriously, that guy is so insecure it hurts. He gets mad at humanity for revering anyone but him and only comes back because he wanted to impress a girl he had a crush on for her pretty singing voice.