225 réponses à ce sujet

[Zeroth Angel]

I honestly wish that video games didn't get as big as they did.

 

Then we wouldn't have had to deal with al these SJW's.

[BubbleDncr]

I love how Bioware put women in such big roles in the game. I mean, I've only ever played as a female Inquisitor so far, and it made me so happy when I realized the Inquisition was founded by three women. 

[TevinterSupremacist]

I agree, but I doubt we'll see it happen. In all likelihood we'd see a huge backlash of bad press and campaigns complaining that the game promotes violence against women. Remember folks, when you kill a man, you killed an individual. When you kill a woman, you're systematically targeting women as a group. I don't think society is ready for a game in which you kill as many women as men. 

Exactly, when recently a mass-murder simulator got greenlit in steam, there were people complaining about about the game promoting senseless violence -I disagree, but fair enough-, people complaining about the political believes of the developers -lol-, but also people complaining about misoginy. Misoginy. In an equal-opportunity, slay-all game.

 

People are nuts. And not the tasty kind.

[Maverick827]

I agree, but I doubt we'll see it happen. In all likelihood we'd see a huge backlash of bad press and campaigns complaining that the game promotes violence against women. Remember folks, when you kill a man, you killed an individual. When you kill a woman, you're systematically targeting women as a group. I don't think society is ready for a game in which you kill as many women as men.

I don't think it's quite that bad. Sure, there are some "faux feminists" who somehow consider themselves feminists but would also believe women can't take the hits and be capable villians, but for the most part I think "real" (Scottsman) feminists can see context. It is particularly difficult when the former is more vocal than the latter, though.

[Abyss108]

I like the original post in this topic and agree that inquisition treats it's female characters very well. 

[Dark Helmet]

The fact that 'Social Justive Warriors' is used a deragotory term says more than enough about how bad things really are in the gaming scene.

 

Because we all know that there could not possibly be a valid reason for SJW to be used in that fashion....

[AzureAardvark]

I honestly wish that video games didn't get as big as they did.

 

Then we wouldn't have had to deal with al these SJW's.

 

Then we'd be dealing with the "zomg! DnD is of teh satanz!" fundies again.

 

There's no win, you just have to realize you're dealing with just another flavor of "my morality >> your morality, and you better adopt it! Because reasons!" so 'n so and move on as best you can.

 

Fundies or SJW's, same poison, different package. /shrug

[Dark Helmet]

Then we'd be dealing with the "zomg! DnD is of teh satanz!" fundies again.

 

There's no win, you just have to realize you're dealing with just another flavor of "my morality >> your morality, and you better adopt it! Because reasons!" so 'n so and move on as best you can.

 

Fundies or SJW's, same poison, different package. /shrug

 

But Fundies were fun. It's in the name!

[AzureAardvark]

But Fundies were fun. It's in the name!

 

For unfun values of fun, sure. 

[Abyss108]

I've always found it very strange that people use the term "social justice warrior" as an insult. Like, who decided that being a warrior for social justice is a bad thing? How did that ever come about? 

 

I get that people disagree about how equal things are, and how much people should care, but someone literally invented a term that isn't insulting at all to describe people they want to insult. 

 

It's very strange, and I don't understand why they didn't invent an actually insulting term. I'm always left just staring at people using the term with a confused expression. 

[Dark Helmet]

For unfun values of fun, sure. 

 

This one gets it!

 

I have nostalgia for the days when the Fundies thought I was literally trying to summon demons because I did vidya and the like.

 

Their kind of crazy is funny.

 

The new kind is just pathetic.

[justafan]

There isn't a lot of room for misogyny in Thedas when you consider that their Crystal Dragon Jesus was a woman who came darn close to toppling Tevinter.  I also like how theres a reason for a gender equal Middle Ages inspired game other than "our make believe society is just better than real life".

[SnakeCode]

I don't think it's quite that bad. Sure, there are some "faux feminists" who somehow consider themselves feminists but would also believe women can't take the hits and be capable villians, but for the most part I think "real" (Scottsman) feminists can see context. It is particularly difficult when the former is more vocal than the latter, though.

I wasn't talking about feminism or any of the movements associated with it, but how society as a whole tends to view these things. As the poster before said about that game that got torn apart by people saying it was full of misogyny (was it called hatred or something like that?) and the recent GTAV ban in Australia. It was banned because people said it promotes violence against women, apparently including sexual violence. Anyone who has ever played a GTA game knows that it promotes violence against everyone, and you rarely (if ever) have to kill women as part of the story, whereas almost every mission forces you to kill multiple men. It is partly due to the fact that men as a group are seen as expendable by society at large, whereas women are still seen as something to be protected, I believe someone mentioned the 'women and children first' attitude that western society promotes. Some would have you believe that this is part of 'the patriarchy' but it's a social construct that is far older that has helped our species to be as successful as we have been. It's hard to change a way of thinking that has been around so long it's practically ingrained into everyone from a young age.

[TevinterSupremacist]

I've always found it very strange that people use the term "social justice warrior" as an insult. Like, who decided that being a warrior for social justice is a bad thing? How did that ever come about? 

It's sarcasm. Those people are a) most of the times not a warrior at all, since all they do is whine on forums/blogs and b ) not that interested in actual social justice , if we take their views and complaints into consideration.

[Abyss108]

It's sarcasm. Those people are a) most of the times not a warrior at all, since all they do is whine on forums/blogs and not interested in actual social justice at all, if we take their views and complaints into consideration.

 

Got to admit, I've never seen anything like that.

 

Every time I've seen it used it's been someone pointing out how something is kinda problematic (not using the term SJW), and then a bunch of people (using the term SJW) massively overreacting and acting like that person is attacking them personally because they disagree about the problem.

 

Also, I thought forums/blogs were for people to post their opinions on things. Not sure what the problem is there. 

 

I'm sure someone, somewhere has used it the way you describe, but it certainly isn't the most common case. I've seen it a thousand times.

[Zeroth Angel]

Then we'd be dealing with the "zomg! DnD is of teh satanz!" fundies again.

 

There's no win, you just have to realize you're dealing with just another flavor of "my morality >> your morality, and you better adopt it! Because reasons!" so 'n so and move on as best you can.

 

Fundies or SJW's, same poison, different package. /shrug

Yeah you're right.

 

Still a few years ago I never saw people complain about sexism or misoginy on random game trailers.

 

Now I find this stuff everywhere. I have even seen people start to apply sexism to cartoon from all things.

[SnakeCode]

Or to shirts that scientists choose to wear...

[Gabeed]

Frankly, I find it much more immersive when there's misogyny in medieval fantasy worlds, and then to see female characters overcome or struggle against those social factors, rather than just having a fantasy land with conveniently 21st century sensibilities a la Thedas and make males and females socially indistinguishable.  The female characters of the Song of Ice and Fire series, or the Witcher series, have to deal with these factors, and are more interesting as a result.  Cersei Lannister in particular comes into mind here.

People can, and indeed do, go on about how it's FANTASY and not truly MEDIEVAL all they want, but let's face it--it's the Generic Fantasy Setting.  It's the Middle Ages, only with made-up countries, monsters, and races.  Dwarves live underground, elves have pointy ears, etc, etc.  It's essentially the same thing since we've seen since Tolkein, and there are consistent themes as a result.  I find the gender equality of Thedas to be a cop-out and not very interesting.

Dorian's character quest with his father was a great example of what Bioware otherwise lacks for its female characters--and is one of the most heartfelt missions of the game, in my opinion.

[Zeroth Angel]

Or to shirts that scientists choose to wear...

Oh don't remind me.

 

I seriously couldn't believe what I was reading when I saw an article about that.

[TevinterSupremacist]

Every time I've seen it used it's been someone pointing out how something is kinda problematic (not using the term SJW), and then a bunch of people (using the term SJW) massively overreacting and acting like that person is attacking them personally because they disagree about the problem.

 

Also, I thought forums/blogs were for people to post their opinions on things.

See my b ). Finding [x] "problematic/morally_questionable/etc" can be fully unrelated to social justice, depending on what [x] is. If for instance, you think condeming sexualised imagery in fiction somehow relates to achieving equality in society, you're wrong. It has nothing to do with social justice, social justice is perfectly aciehvable without condemning such imagery.

 

As for the forums part, I never said people shouldn't voice their opinions, I said that whining about what they find wrong [especially if what they find wrong is perfectly ok] isn't an act of "fighting against oppression". Hence, the ''warrior'' as sarcasm. Because they're not actually fighting. They're whining. About things that aren't wrong.

[Cette]

I've always found it very strange that people use the term "social justice warrior" as an insult. Like, who decided that being a warrior for social justice is a bad thing? How did that ever come about? 

 

I get that people disagree about how equal things are, and how much people should care, but someone literally invented a term that isn't insulting at all to describe people they want to insult. 

 

It's very strange, and I don't understand why they didn't invent an actually insulting term. I'm always left just staring at people using the term with a confused expression. 

 

 

I do believe it's over the tendency to take themselves WAY to seriously and go on the offensive without thinking the whole thing out.  That and you know acting like they're fighting the big battle to help change society while mostly just engaging in online slapfights with sweaty manchildren.

Or to sum it up in an old joke.

How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

ONE and there's nothing funny about it!


Now mind you I actually support the feminism and equality as a whole and think sometimes good things get posted.  but equally often tone deaf shrieking occurs which does more harm to the cause than having said nothing. 

 

The other side of course tends to yell just as much and it devolves into the worst and loudest of both groups screaming at each other over the top of anyone more level headed.  But that's the internet for you.

Worth noting that how bad it is varies wildly form place to place.  You want to see things get ugly go look at the politics subforum for The Escapist.  WOOOOHH BOOOOYY!

[Farangbaa]

I honestly wish that video games didn't get as big as they did.

 

Then we wouldn't have had to deal with al these SJW's.

 

You'd rather go back to the time where everyone looked at you like you were somekind of abomination for playing video games? Especially as an adult?

 

I'd rather not.

[Sully13]

That's regardless of gender mind.

https://www.youtube....h?v=CvYSPxvrq5s

Nuff said.

[Abyss108]

See my b ). Finding [x] "problematic/morally_questionable/etc" can be fully unrelated to social justice, depending on what [x] is. If for instance, you think condeming sexualised imagery in fiction somehow relates to achieving equality in society, you're wrong. It has nothing to do with social justice, social justice is perfectly aciehvable without condemning such imagery.

 

As for the forums part, I never said people shouldn't voice their opinions, I said that whining about what they find wrong [especially if what they find wrong is perfectly ok] isn't an act of "fighting against oppression". Hence, the ''warrior'' as sarcasm. Because they're not actually fighting. They're whining. About things that aren't wrong.

 

Sure, condemning sexualized imagery has nothing to do with equality. But I see SJW thrown around when people condemn sexualized imagery when it's only used for female characters. Which is equality based, as it's a different standard for both sex.

 

You say people can express their opinions, but then you say that expressing their opinions about things they find wrong is "whining" in the next sentence? You can't just say their opinion is wrong and it's actually OK because YOU don't find it a problem. Seems like it would be a better option to discuss the issue with them, instead of insulting them.

[SnakeCode]

You'd rather go back to the time where everyone looked at you like you were somekind of abomination for playing video games? Especially as an adult?

 

I'd rather not.

We still are by some. Cough... Gauker cough...