225 réponses à ce sujet

[Farangbaa]

That's regardless of gender mind.

https://www.youtube....h?v=CvYSPxvrq5s

Nuff said.

 

Great. Now apply this to me: a white, heterosexual male.

 

Who's oppressing me?

[Zeroth Angel]

You'd rather go back to the time where everyone looked at you like you were somekind of abomination for playing video games? Especially as an adult?

 

I'd rather not.

 

 

W still are by some. Cough... Gauker cough...

This.

 

Also I don't know where you live but people still look weird at me when they know I play video games even though I'm an adult.

[Farangbaa]

The Netherlands.

 

(yes, that's a real country. I once had someone who thought I made that country up. That guy probably thought I said Netherworld though)

[Shimmer_Gloom]

See my b ). Finding [x] "problematic/morally_questionable/etc" can be fully unrelated to social justice, depending on what [x] is. If for instance, you think condeming sexualised imagery in fiction somehow relates to achieving equality in society, you're wrong. It has nothing to do with social justice, social justice is perfectly aciehvable without condemning such imagery.

As for the forums part, I never said people shouldn't voice their opinions, I said that whining about what they find wrong [especially if what they find wrong is perfectly ok] isn't an act of "fighting against oppression". Hence, the ''warrior'' as sarcasm. Because they're not actually fighting. They're whining. About things that aren't wrong.

I take issue with 'whining' and 'wrong.'

It's not 'whining' to have a conversation. When someone says some thing in tv/videogame/life is problematic it's a statement of opinion.

And if you say there is nothing wrong with seeing others as not human...

Idk man. It seems to work out that when women have an issue with something it's 'whining' when dudes complain it's fair discourse. That is ENTIRELY the problem.

But I'm not sure where to start on a attitude like this...

[TevinterSupremacist]

But I see SJW thrown around when people condemn sexualized imagery when it's only used for female characters. Which is equality based, as it's a different standard for both sex.

 

You say people can express their opinions, but then you say that expressing their opinions about things they find wrong is "whining" in the next sentence?

No , a creator having the hots for women and not for men and that fact being represented in his/her works isn't a problem to justice in society.

 

People can phrase their opinions in different ways. Some of these ways, as you're sure aware, include whining. It's matter of the way you choose to express yourself. And lashing out at things you don't like while trying to paint them as malicious falls under whining...or manipulation, but I'm generous and try to suppose it's usually the former.

[Abyss108]

I do believe it's over the tendency to take themselves WAY to seriously and go on the offensive without thinking the whole thing out.  That and you know acting like they're fighting the big battle to help change society while mostly just engaging in online slapfights with sweaty manchildren.

Or to sum it up in an old joke.

How many feminists does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

ONE and there's nothing funny about it!


Now mind you I actually support the feminism and equality as a whole and think sometimes good things get posted.  but equally often tone deaf shrieking occurs which does more harm to the cause than having said nothing. 

 

The other side of course tends to yell just as much and it devolves into the worst and loudest of both groups screaming at each other over the top of anyone more level headed.  But that's the internet for you.

Worth noting that how bad it is varies wildly form place to place.  You want to see things get ugly go look at the politics subforum for The Escapist.  WOOOOHH BOOOOYY!

 

Well, as I said, I mainly see the side screaming about "SJW" being the ones taking things way too seriously. Usually just because someone dared to criticize something they like. Never seen someone criticizing a game claiming they are fighting "the big fight" and that they are "warriors" for it. That's always the other side. I'm sure there's a few people who do that (it's a big internet, there's a lot of people), but I haven't seen any. Seen a lot of the other side though.

 

Internet arguing is annoying, because any calm voices are always going to get drowned out by the shrieking ones. It sucks.

 

You're not going to ever convince me that things like games/movies etc don't affect society though. I was playing these things my entire childhood and I can see the ways they affected me as an adult. I know for a fact they affected me, and other people I know, and I'm pretty sure we're not all just special unique snowflakes.

[phantomrachie]

I agree, but I doubt we'll see it happen. In all likelihood we'd see a huge backlash of bad press and campaigns complaining that the game promotes violence against women. Remember folks, when you kill a man, you killed an individual. When you kill a woman, you're systematically targeting women as a group. I don't think society is ready for a game in which you kill as many women as men. 

 

This goes both ways though. When I play a game online and I'm a bit shite at it, I'm not a bit shite, my entire gender is. 

 

Men always tend to be seen as individuals, whereas women are always seen as a big homogeneous group*.

 

I constantly feel like I'm representing my gender online rather than just representing me because that is how most of the online community views me. 

 

I'm not sure how to fix this, but I'd sure as hell like it to stop.

 

*the exception to this is of course advertising, where we will all fit into little demographic boxes whether we want to or not. 

[Arl Raylen]

Minor correction OP...M was originally a male and has been played by a male actor 3/4 times in the movies. I don't see how spymaster is inherently biased towards women in the first place.

 

I also don't understand the problem with sex scenes. So what if they're full of nudity a la The Witcher 2? Preferring fade to black or something of the more hardcore variety doesn't inherently make someone an anti-feminist pig.

 

Believe it or not, women are just as hormonally charged as men. Whether you want to admit it or not, I bet most wouldn't cry about a fully nude and prolonged scene involving Cullen or any of the other male romance options.

 

Other than that, you bring up decent points, but then again Dragon Age is a fantasy world and you can't compare things directly. DA for instance has always held women in high regard, what with Andraste and all of the strong female characters in Origins.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

This.

 

Also I don't know where you live but people still look weird at me when they know I play video games even though I'm an adult.

same here.

the thing I get as a homosexual woman is people being offended on my behalf.

 

ill add this as well

[Zeroth Angel]

The Netherlands.

 

(yes, that's a real country. I once had someone who thought I made that country up. That guy probably thought I said Netherworld though)

Well here in Belgium where I live I've had people call me and other people who play video games "people who have no life".

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

same in Scotland.. but I can get away with it by being a girl.

[Abyss108]

No , a creator having the hots for women and not for men and that fact being represented in his/her works isn't a problem to justice in society.

 

People can phrase their opinions in different ways. Some of these ways, as you're sure aware, include whining. It's matter of the way you choose to express yourself. And lashing out at things you don't like while trying to paint them as malicious falls under whining...or manipulation, but I'm generous and try to suppose it's usually the former.

 

No, a single creator creating something like that isn't an issue.

 

90% of things being created like that IS an issue.

 

How is men being able to choose from 90% of things to sexually appeal to them, but women 10% not unequal? (random numbers chosen, but you get the point). 

 

So talk about expressing yourself. So you're not arguing against the POINT they are making, just the TONE? SJW usually gets thrown at people being perfectly polite, not claiming "maliciousness" or anything of the sort.

[Abyss108]

This goes both ways though. When I play a game online and I'm a bit shite at it, I'm not a bit shite, my entire gender is. 

 

Men always tend to be seen as individuals, whereas women are always seen as a big homogeneous group*.

 

I constantly feel like I'm representing my gender online rather than just representing me because that is how most of the online community views me. 

 

I'm not sure how to fix this, but I'd sure as hell like it to stop.

 

*the exception to this is of course advertising, where we will all fit into little demographic boxes whether we want to or not. 

 

I know what this feels like...   Reason I don't play many online games.

 

Logged into DA:I last night and has someone scream at me that I was a "little ******" who sucked repeatedly just for existing. Then the game glitched, and he lost all his progress. I laughed! Then I realised I had lost all of my progress too, but it still amused me.

[Precursor Meta]

I didn't think anything of it. Whether it be more males than females in important roles or vice versa.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

No , a creator having the hots for women and not for men and that fact being represented in his/her works isn't a problem to justice in society.

People can phrase their opinions in different ways. Some of these ways, as you're sure aware, include whining. It's matter of the way you choose to express yourself. And lashing out at things you don't like while trying to paint them as malicious falls under whining...or manipulation, but I'm generous and try to suppose it's usually the former.

Seeing women as less than men is a 'problem to justice in society.' This effects employment and law and sex and violence and everything.

So how do we change the way we see people? Where do we start? With the law? Or do we start with the culture that created the law?

Let me put it this way: you think Blackface minstrel shows are okay? Or do you think it contributes to negative attitudes?

'SJW's aren't often 'trying to paint something as malicious.' A dude creating a big breasted super Heroine as personal ****** material and publishing it isn't malicious. And nobody has ever said so. But is it problematic? In context? Maybe. And it's not whining to say so.

Culture is important. Games are important. I wouldn't be on the BSN if I thought otherwise. Calling someone's opinion 'whining' is belittling and denies that games or tv or anything about culture doesn't shape who we are. We ARE the stories we tell.

[Cette]

Well, as I said, I mainly see the side screaming about "SJW" being the ones taking things way too seriously. Usually just because someone dared to criticize something they like. Never seen someone criticizing a game claiming they are fighting "the big fight" and that they are "warriors" for it. That's always the other side. I'm sure there's a few people who do that (it's a big internet, there's a lot of people), but I haven't seen any. Seen a lot of the other side though.

 

Internet arguing is annoying, because any calm voices are always going to get drowned out by the shrieking ones. It sucks.

 

You're not going to ever convince me that things like games/movies etc don't affect society though. I was playing these things my entire childhood and I can see the ways they affected me as an adult. I know for a fact they affected me, and other people I know, and I'm pretty sure we're not all just special unique snowflakes.

 

Oh yes media either effects or reflects what's going on in the culture at large to be sure.  Just always good to look at the whole context of a thing before popping off.  Not saying you or associates do but I have seen it happen.

Honestly not as often as quite a few people make it out to but it's always that way isn't it?  Every group characterized by others as their worst or just loudest members.

The first time I saw that stereotype played out live in the field it was kind of magical like a unicorn.  Then next thing you know there's herd of them in your living room pissing on the carpet.  Kinda ruins the magic that. 

[TevinterSupremacist]

How is men being able to choose from 90% of things to sexually appeal to them, but women 10% not unequal? (random numbers chosen, but you get the point). 

 

So talk about expressing yourself. So you're not arguing against the POINT they are making, just the TONE? SJW usually gets thrown at people being perfectly polite, not claiming "maliciousness" or anything of the sort.

Easy. Having art/fiction/entertainment/etc that appeals to you created by others isn't within your rights. Therefore, lack of such stuff isn't a problem.

 

Tone and point tend to mesh. Morally condemning stuff you don't like, is whining, unless you can prove why they're morally reprehensible.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Same here i just see people take offence at trivial things on others behalf.

i now have a forhead that can rival the Mean Machiens.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Easy. Having art/fiction/entertainment/etc that appeals to you created by others isn't within your rights. Therefore, lack of such stuff isn't a problem.

Tone and point tend to mesh. Morally condemning stuff you don't like, is whining, unless you can prove why they're morally reprehensible.

You can't prove morality. Or do I have to start digging through Nietche again? Because I thought I was done w him a couple years ago when I got my AA lol.

And we haven't even touched the 'women's voices are silenced' issue so I'm not sure why you brought it up. By that's a whole other box of worms than somethin being problematic.

And also, do you get how messed up telling other people what they should and shouldn't see as a problem, is? Especially if you aren't like them? I don't go around telling black people what they should or shouldn't find offensive. Why is it okay to do that to women?

[Arl Raylen]

I know what this feels like...   Reason I don't play many online games.

 

Logged into DA:I last night and has someone scream at me that I was a "little ******" who sucked repeatedly just for existing. Then the game glitched, and he lost all his progress. I laughed! Then I realised I had lost all of my progress too, but it still amused me.

 

Maybe you guys and gals need to expand your horizons. PC online games are nearly 50/50 male/women nowadays. I just canceled my sub to WoW, but seriously the majority of the people on my server and on the official forums seem to be female.

 

The fact of the matter is that "consoles" are still a ~20 year old male dominated market, but PCs aren't. If you speak up on Xbox live and you're anything but a 25 year old white guy, you'll get called out on it (gender doesn't apply).

[SnakeCode]

You can't prove morality. Or do I have to start digging through Nietche again? Because I thought I was done w him a couple years ago when I got my AA lol.

And we haven't even touched the 'women's voices are silenced' issue so I'm not sure why you brought it up. By that's a whole other box of worms than somethin being problematic.

And also, do you get how messed up telling other people what they should and shouldn't see as a problem, is? Especially if you aren't like them? I don't go around telling black people what they should or shouldn't find offensive. Why is it okay to do that to women?

S/he was talking about 'Social Justice Warriors' not women.

[Dreamer]

Same here i just see people take offence at trivial things on others behalf.

i now have a forhead that can rival the Mean Machiens.

 

There is little that upsets me more than having an "ally" take offense on my behalf. I find it incredibly patronizing--as if I need their support if I'm going to be taken seriously. Oh it boils my blood.

 

As for the comments on SWJ and its usage: It's a caricature. You know how some people use the term neckbeard? What was once an innocuous way to describe someone with lengthy stubble, it's now used to marginalize an entire group of men with which SWJs apparently tend to disagree.

[alwaysquestions]

Maybe you guys and gals need to expand your horizons. PC online games are nearly 50/50 male/women nowadays. I just canceled my sub to WoW, but seriously the majority of the people on my server and on the official forums seem to be female.

 

The fact of the matter is that "consoles" are still a ~20 year old male dominated market, but PCs aren't. If you speak up on Xbox live and you're anything but a 25 year old white guy, you'll get called out on it (gender doesn't apply).

 

Dota 2 is one of the most popular online PC exclusives and I'm pretty sure it's massively male dominated. In fact what online games except wow have a huge female fanbase?

[Abyss108]

Oh yes media either effects or reflects what's going on in the culture at large to be sure.  Just always good to look at the whole context of a thing before popping off.  Not saying you or associates do but I have seen it happen.

Honestly not as often as quite a few people make it out to but it's always that way isn't it?  Every group characterized by others as their worst or just loudest members.

The first time I saw that stereotype played out live in the field it was kind of magical like a unicorn.  Then next thing you know there's herd of them in your living room pissing on the carpet.  Kinda ruins the magic that. 

 

(on your first paragraph) yeah, I'm sure it happens sometimes. I've seen people make points I disagree with on things like this before. But the trend does seem to be other people jumping on them and hurling insults rather than explain why they're wrong or what they have missed. And I see it happen on other topics, much less than I do when it relates to equality or similar things.

 

I'm sure there are rational people on both sides, it just all gets drowned out.

 

Easy. Having art/fiction/entertainment/etc that appeals to you created by others isn't within your rights. Therefore, lack of such stuff isn't a problem.

 

Tone and point tend to mesh. Morally condemning stuff you don't like, is whining, unless you can prove why they're morally reprehensible.

 

I've never claimed it was a "right", I've claimed it was "unequal" and has an effect on people. 

Seeing that 90% of something of something you love isn't for you and treats you as an object, has an effect on you. Hence, it is a problem. I find it hard to believe that you have never criticized something in your life that was not your "right" to receive. If you pay to watch a movie, it is not your "right" that the movie be good, but people will still criticize that movie if it isn't.

 

Tone and Point are completely unrelated. I could argue any argument in the world whilst hurling insults at people. It does not affect whether that argument is correct. And this ignores all the people who argue the point quite politely, which is the majority.

[Decepticon Leader Sully]

Shimmer Gloom.

Would that be the same womens voices that got GTA 5 off shelves in Australia?

or the ones that got the uk goverment to have a 50 /50 ratio in university chemistery classes... that quickly failed due to 70 male students gettng droped due to low female intrest then them finding a different subject namely Psychology more intresting.

or the one that began prohibition?