S/he was talking about 'Social Justice Warriors' not women.
You can't prove morality. Or do I have to start digging through Nietche again? Because I thought I was done w him a couple years ago when I got my AA lol.
And we haven't even touched the 'women's voices are silenced' issue so I'm not sure why you brought it up. By that's a whole other box of worms than somethin being problematic.
And also, do you get how messed up telling other people what they should and shouldn't see as a problem, is? Especially if you aren't like them? I don't go around telling black people what they should or shouldn't find offensive. Why is it okay to do that to women?
If you think you can't prove morality, then you don't get to call things morally reprehensible. And if you're honest with yourself, you call out people who do.
Unrelated to what I said, like most of your earlier posts.
Something either is a problem, or it isn't. If I consider something morally reprehensible, I'll point it out. If I don't consider it problematic and someone else does, either a) I never thought about it so I just ponder on the other person's opinion or b ) I have reasons why it's not reprehensible, therefore I try to counter the points of those who find it problematic.
As for "offesnivevenss" , something being offensive just means it makes you feel bad, it's hurtful/upsetting, etc. (english is my third language so I had to google the definition to make sure). I would never try to tell you what hurts you or not , that's your emotion, it's yours, no one can claim it.
However, if you try to move from "it's offensive to me" to "it's offensive" or even worse to "it's problematic", then you're just wrong.
Yeeeeaaaaah. I know. But that's what we're really talkin about though. If I said I didn't like th NAACP it would be hard to for me to say 'I'm not talking about black people.'
When people say 'the tumblr crowd' and 'SJW's' they are talking about the women on tumblr. Or the men that support their opinions.
You're not gunna convince me that SJW is not a gendered word.
You would be surprised how many man call themselves SJW and jump to a woman's defense when someone doesn't agree with them.
This goes both ways though. When I play a game online and I'm a bit shite at it, I'm not a bit shite, my entire gender is.
Men always tend to be seen as individuals, whereas women are always seen as a big homogeneous group*.
I constantly feel like I'm representing my gender online rather than just representing me because that is how most of the online community views me.
I'm not sure how to fix this, but I'd sure as hell like it to stop.
*the exception to this is of course advertising, where we will all fit into little demographic boxes whether we want to or not.
I simply do not care about gender. We're all individuals, not just members of a group. Male, female, whatever. That's especially true online. What does it change for me if the person I play with online is not of my gender? Nothing at all. I still make stupid jokes and how I treat people depends on their behaviour/personality and not on their gender.
This goes both ways. "You can't say that to a lady!" ... bullshit. If it's offensive, then you don't say it at all. Not to men and not to women.
This also applies to other areas of discrimination like ethnicity, race, religion, sexuality. I simply do not give a **** about any of that when I talk with people, it doesn't affect me personally, so why would I?
Nobody is perfect and if we took a closer look at how we talk about other people, then we'd find a lot of stereotypes, discrimination and unfair treatment. This applies to everyone.
While women might have a more difficult time to be accepted as gamers, men have have similiar troubles in areas like family, household etc. Ever been the only man in a cooking class? Fun...
I wish people would be seen as individuals first and as part of a group second. It's what I try to do myself and if everyone else would do it too, life would be so much easier and better.
Dota 2 is one of the most popular online PC exclusives and I'm pretty sure it's massively male dominated. In fact what online games except wow have a huge female fanbase?
I can't think of any but i'm not a big online guy. I know the statistics often brought up are completely misrepresentative of the actual numbers though. The mythical 47% or whatever it is, fails to mention that the games most popular with women are handheld phone games like Candy Crush and angry birds. AAA gaming still seems to be dominated by a mostly male fanbase.
I can't think of any but i'm not a big online guy. I know the statistics often brought up are completely misrepresentative of the actual numbers though. The mythical 47% or whatever it is, fails to mention that the games most popular with women are handheld phone games like Candy Crush and angry birds. AAA gaming still seems to be dominated by a mostly male fanbase.
And it's important to remind everyone that there's nothing wrong with that.
You would be surprised how many man call themselves SJW and jump to a woman's defense when someone doesn't agree with them.
That behaviour only makes things worse. It's not like women are fragile little flowers who can't defend themselves.
*COFF* Full Macintosh *COFF*
Sorry allergies.
I simply do not care about gender. We're all individuals, not just members of a group. Male, female, whatever. That's especially true online. What does it change for me if the person I play with online is not of my gender? Nothing at all. I still make stupid jokes and how I treat people depends on their behaviour/personality and not on their gender.
This goes both ways. "You can't say that to a lady!" ... bullshit. If it's offensive, then you don't say it at all. Not to men and not to women.
This also applies to other areas of discrimination like ethnicity, race, religion, sexuality. I simply do not give a **** about any of that when I talk with people, it doesn't affect me personally, so why would I?
Nobody is perfect and if we took a closer look at how we talk about other people, then we'd find a lot of stereotypes, discrimination and unfair treatment. This applies to everyone.
While women might have a more difficult time to be accepted as gamers, men have have similiar troubles in areas like family, household etc. Ever been the only man in a cooking class? Fun...
I wish people would be seen as individuals first and as part of a group second. It's what I try to do myself and if everyone else would do it too, life would be so much easier and better.
I couldn't agree any more.
Seeing that 90% of something of something you love isn't for you and treats you as an object, has an effect on you. Hence, it is a problem.
To your feelings. Not to the goal of achieving equality in society. Equality in society means that people get the same rights, not that every aspect of our lives will have equal represantations and acceptance of everyone. There are aspects in life which are to be protected and regulated by establishing human rights that govern them, and aspects in life that are to be left unchecked for free reign of whatever. Guess where art and entertainment goes.
As for tone and point, it depends how you argue your point. You can have a point and support it with arguments or try to paint the opposition as negative without any reason. While still having the same point. Perhaps ''tone'' was incorrect, modus operandi of arguing would fit better? Or should we shift the arguments to be included in the point, instead of treating the point as only in the conclusion? If we define it like this, yeah, it's a point issue, not a tone/modus_operandi issue.
Of course, yeah, there's no reason to use SJW for those who argue their points.
That behaviour only makes things worse. It's not like women are fragile little flowers who can't defend themselves.
and that is exactly what grinds my gears.
when i was a kid arround 12 or 13 me and a few guys i know began back yard wresteling.
i took chair shots, sticks to the back , Flouresent tubes hell even barbed wire.
and that was on dirt my back looks like a road map.
trust me we can take sheeet.
If you think you can't prove morality, then you don't get to call things morally reprehensible. And if you're honest with yourself, you call out people who do.
Unrelated to what I said, like most of your earlier posts.
Something either is a problem, or it isn't. If I consider something morally reprehensible, I'll point it out. If I don't consider it problematic and someone else does, either a) I never thought about it so I just ponder on the other person's opinion orI have reasons why it's not reprehensible, therefore I try to counter the points of those who find it problematic.
As for "offesnivevenss" , something being offensive just means it makes you feel bad, it's hurtful/upsetting, etc. (english is my third language so I had to google the definition to make sure). I would never try to tell you what hurts you or not , that's your emotion, it's yours, no one can claim it.
However, if you try to move from "it's offensive to me" to "it's offensive" or even worse to "it's problematic", then you're just wrong.
That behaviour only makes things worse. It's not like women are fragile little flowers who can't defend themselves.
I agree with that.
I didn't mean to imply that men defending women like that was positive in any way.
(on your first paragraph) yeah, I'm sure it happens sometimes. I've seen people make points I disagree with on things like this before. But the trend does seem to be other people jumping on them and hurling insults rather than explain why they're wrong or what they have missed. And I see it happen on other topics, much less than I do when it relates to equality or similar things.
I'm sure there are rational people on both sides, it just all gets drowned out.
I've never claimed it was a "right", I've claimed it was "unequal" and has an effect on people.
Seeing that 90% of something of something you love isn't for you and treats you as an object, has an effect on you. Hence, it is a problem. I find it hard to believe that you have never criticized something in your life that was not your "right" to receive. If you pay to watch a movie, it is not your "right" that the movie be good, but people will still criticize that movie if it isn't.
Tone and Point are completely unrelated. I could argue any argument in the world whilst hurling insults at people. It does not affect whether that argument is correct. And this ignores all the people who argue the point quite politely, which is the majority.
The thing about videogames, is that we're customers, not patrons. So sure, you can voice your displeasure about the things you don't like, that IS absolutely your right. You can also vote with your wallet, and not buy the games you have a problem with (which i'm sure you already do.) Some people (these so called SJWs,) seem to think that they ARE patrons though, and as such start demanding that certain things be (or not be) included in their games, this is what annoys people. It isn't the customers place to pressure devs to making games that allign with their worldview, or to neuter their creativity because it might offend someone, somewhere.
Here is an example. You can like the Star Wars prequels and find elements of the movies to be super lame. But it doesn't take away another perosn's feelings on it. Why is it when we start criticizing something from a Feminist perspective, people get their feelings hurt?
It's suddenly 'whining.' :/
It's never whining to find something lame. It's whining when you try to paint something as problematic without trying to prove your point. Lame is an aesthetic term, no one can correctly disagree with you on what you like/dislike.
To your feelings. Not to the goal of achieving equality in society. Equality in society means that people get the same rights, not that every aspect of our lives will have equal represantations and acceptance of everyone. There are aspects in life which are to be protected and regulated by establishing human rights that govern them, and aspects in life that are to be left unchecked for free reign of whatever. Guess where art and entertainment goes.
As for tone and point, it depends how you argue your point. You can have a point and support it with arguments or try to paint the opposition as negative without any reason. While still having the same point. Perhaps ''tone'' was incorrect, modus operandi of arguing would fit better? Or should we shift the arguments to be included in the point, instead of treating the point as only in the conclusion? If we define it like this, yeah, it's a point issue, not a tone/modus_operandi issue.
Of course, yeah, there's no reason to use SJW for those who argue their points.
No, equality in society has nothing to do with "rights". Equality means everyone is treated equally. It is literally the same word. Nothing about "rights". "Equal rights" means everyone has the same rights, not equality. You are factually incorrect about the definition of the word. You can argue whether you think these things are important, or whether you think things are equal, but you can't "argue" equality implies "rights".
I'm not sure what you're trying to say with your second paragraph, it's very confusing for me to read. It sounds like you think tone and point are related?
"The sky is blue"
"The sky is blue, you ****** piece of ****"
These two statements have the same POINT, but very different TONE.
Then we are back to 'nothing can be problematic.' Which is what I disagree with. And 'morally reprehensible' and 'problematic' are very different things for me.
I think a lot of the opposition to Feminist and Socially Conscious talk is that people feel like they are taking their toys away.
Here is an example. You can like the Star Wars prequels and find elements of the movies to be super lame. But it doesn't take away another perosn's feelings on it. Why is it when we start criticizing something from a Feminist perspective, people get their feelings hurt?
It's suddenly 'whining.' :/
It mostly has to do with the way arguments are framed. Many (not all) who identify online as feminists do so because they took a sociology class or because it's an in-group thing on tumblr; a lot of these people don't actually know what they're talking about, but because it has what I call "the three Ps" (positive, popular, and progressive), they feel compelled to join in. This means we get a lot of harmful opinions masquerading as progress and moral superiority.
Internet feminism--not to be confused with true feminism--is increasingly becoming distanced from egalitarianism; the argument is frequently "the boys club is evil and misogynistic, and should be destroyed." I think there'd be less consternation if the argument were reframed as "there's nothing wrong with men having their things, but wouldn't it be great if women could play too--how can we join in?"
I couldn't agree any more.
Then we are back to 'nothing can be problematic.' Which is what I disagree with. And 'morally reprehensible' and 'problematic' are very different things for me.
I think a lot of the opposition to Feminist and Socially Conscious talk is that people feel like they are taking their toys away.
Here is an example. You can like the Star Wars prequels and find elements of the movies to be super lame. But it doesn't take away another perosn's feelings on it. Why is it when we start criticizing something from a Feminist perspective, people get their feelings hurt?
It's suddenly 'whining.' :/
no the opposition to feminism is that there are 2 types of feminism 1 the ones like Dawkins who hate men ect and anita who muddel whith fact. look at Witchwood. the feminist logic that all women are soooo week that even consentual sex even whith a woman is rape.
they misuse things so mutch thar the word is worthless.
and the 2nd type the average ones who let the other ones get away whith it.
The thing about videogames, is that we're customers, not patrons. So sure, you can voice your displeasure about the things you don't like, that IS absolutely your right. You can also vote with your wallet, and not buy the games you have a problem with (which i'm sure you already do.) Some people (these so called SJWs,) seem to think that they ARE patrons though, and as such start demanding that certain things be (or not be) included in their games, this is what annoys people. It isn't the customers place to pressure devs to making games that allign with their worldview, or to neuter their creativity because it might offend someone, somewhere.
Except people don't DEMAND that things are a certain way, that's impossible. We were talking about people writing blogs and forum posts criticizing things, not people saying there should be a law that makes these things illegal. People are posting what they don't like, and what they would like better. That's not putting pressure on devs any more than people writing about how they disliked the soundtrack/gameplay/graphics/whatever.
There's a big difference in the number of insults hurled at people who criticize how a game handles gender, than those that criticize how a game handles the soundtrack.
Eh. And I'd almost want to agree but I can't.
So. I'm a white dude. But most of the people I see saying 'gender doesn't matter,' or 'race doesnt matter,' are other people like me.
Not once heard a black guy say race doesn't matter. That wasn't on TV anyway.
It would be nice if we could all treat each other a equals. But to deny race or gender is a factor is to deny that people of different races or genders can't have different experiences. Know what I'm saying?
Male opinions on feminism don't matter? I want to be sure that's not what you're suggesting, because it almost sounds like you are. It's a common point and one that stands opposed to positive change.
I'm Hispanic (brown) and I say race doesn't matter. Race matters to racists. Period.
I'm gay and I say sexuality doesn't matter. Sexuality matters to homophobes and anti-LGBT sentimentality. Period.
People have different experiences because we (generally) obsess over our differences. Differences are meaningful and sometimes powerful. There are places I feel left out while there are places I feel incredibly empowered. As long as someone thinks of themselves as different than others, lines will remain in the sand.
It's never whining to find something lame. It's whining when you try to paint something as problematic without trying to prove your point. Lame is an aesthetic term, no one can correctly disagree with you on what you like/dislike.
It mostly has to do with the way arguments are framed. Many (not all) who identify online as feminists do so because they took a sociology class or because it's an in-group thing on tumblr; a lot of these people don't actually know what they're talking about, but because it has what I call "the three Ps" (positive, popular, and progressive), they feel compelled to join in. This means we get a lot of harmful opinions masquerading as progress and moral superiority.
Internet feminism--not to be confused with true feminism--is increasingly becoming distanced from egalitarianism; the argument is frequently "the boys club is evil and misogynistic, and should be destroyed." I think there'd be less consternation if the argument were reframed as "there's nothing wrong with men having their things, but wouldn't it be great if women could play too--how can we join in?"
Male opinions on feminism don't matter?
No, they don't.
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