13 réponses à ce sujet

[Former_Fiend]

So, because I have eyes, I noticed that there are quite a few posts and threads on this board condemning Corypheus as a poor villain. Myself, I rather liked Corypheus, but this thread isn't for debate over his merits as a villain, rather, it's to satisfy my own curiosity. 

 

I'm curious about two things; firstly, when condemning Corypheus, is it that you think he stacks up poorly when compared to the other villains in the DA franchise, or is it that he stacks up poorly to other villains in fiction in general?

 

If it's the former, then I have to ask the follow up; when compared to the primary antagonists of the series' other entries(Urthemiel, the Mother, and Meredith), where is it Corypheus comes up lacking?

[Jaison1986]

I believe it's mostly because Corypheus is an DLC villain, and no matter what, that feels very anti climatic. How would anyone feel if Balak turned out to be the final boss of ME3? Corypheus is pretty much the same. While the Archdemon and Meredith were fresh villains in contrast.

[Br3admax]

They were also both terrible villains.

[Sidney]

See I thought his reappearance was a nice way to tie things together. We clearly saw him survive the fight (at least I thought it was clear) and as far as being "fresh" I thought he was wasted as a DLC villian. I mean in terms of story an old magister who invaded the Black City is about as big as it gets.

[Reznore57]

The only " villain" in DA I liked was the Arishok.

I still remember playing DAO the first time , and then looking at the forum , and people were saying" Loghain " is great.

And I was really scratching my head , I mean really.

Later I've read the book , and played return at Ostaggar , and I thought "OH! Now he's making sense .Orlais was indeed a threat and after what he went through , I understand the total paranoia going on".

But without that , he's like the only dude in Ferelden worried about Orlesians.So he looks like a lunatic.

 

Now Cory is lacking...because I want to be a God...well it sounds stupid.So it's hard to make something like this work.

Also he wants to be a God by doing exactly what he did in the past.His face shows the result.

He tells you there were nothing in there , but darkness and dead whisper.Still he wants to go back.WTH, COry?

So he's not exactly a genius to begin with.

Fine .

And then you spend the whole game looking at him failing.A grandma kick his orb at of his hand then a passerby picked it up.

Cory said "Argh!"

Then he tries to destroy Haven , but everyone important escape , then you drop a mountain on his head.He flies away and doesn't even bother to kill the refugee with his dragon.Would have been easy really.

He gets killed by a bunch of elves then he survives he goes "Argh".You close the big door , and somehow it takes him hours to open it.

He managed to open the door , he goes "Argh" and smash his face into an eluvian.

Then of course dude has a nervous breakdown , so he has a hissy fit at Haven , you go there and kill him.

It's pathetic.No really.

I mean  the attack at Haven was great.But then Cory is so pathetic , it's just embarassing.

 

I mean this is the person who says he will be a GOD.Seriously.

If a villain doesn't have good motives , for the villain sake, don't make the poor thing a running gag.

[AshesEleven]

I think he stacks up poorly to other villains and he just didn't get enough screen time in this game.  Two major scenes with him and that's it.  He comes across as a threat at Haven but after that you barely see him and you're busy dismantling his entire organization while he apparently does little to stop you.  

[Fireblader70]

You say this isn't about his merits as a villain, but it sure sounds like it! I'll give my full opinion, though.

Corypheus is a human-like character. He walks, he talks, he has a personality (in theory). For human villains, in any genre of fiction, the intracacies of their desires and how they go about fulfilling them are necessary ways of getting the audience to relate to them. They need to empathise with the villain. Understand their feelings and in-depth points of view. The struggles they're going through. Stuff that makes them human. Like Loghain, for example. He's not the best example, but he's pretty decent.

This is opposed to the villainous forces of nature like the Darkspawn, which only need to prove how brutal and merciless they are. The Blight is not a human, it is a dark tsunami. No character development is needed, only a visual representation of its formidable power. The Darkspawn and Archdemon do a decent job of this in Origins. You see their brutality everywhere. In fact, as a Darkspawn, Corypheus should be in this category as well.

He is a blend of humanity and the dark forces of nature. Yet, he fails to be a good example of either. His personality and desires go only as far as his blatant goal to be a god and his points of view, his feelings, are all muted. There is little for the audience to relate to. His on-screen humanity is akin to a stick figure. His pure power is also not really shown, as he appears a grand total of three times. You never see him try to rip things apart with his own bare hands, even if the game tries to make him seem that powerful. Thus, the audience has a hard time feeling threatened.

Then there's the quality of his dialogue. So many cliches, all over the place. When you put all this together, then, Corypheus does not seem like a good villain.

[Sidney]

He is a blend of humanity and the dark forces of nature. Yet, he fails to be a good example of either. His personality and desires go only as far as his blatant goal to be a god and his points of view, his feelings, are all muted.

 

 

I thought that he actually went beyond this. He talks about how on waking he was shocked to see the world and in particular how far Teviner had fallen. Those strains of Tevinter nationalism made him more "human" than just bwahahahahahahahaha villain. I agree he could have done with more screen time but then again I was thinking about Harbinger who really gets what, one good scene with you - although it is a heck of a scene.

[Br3admax]

You say this isn't about his merits as a villain, but it sure sounds like it! I'll give my full opinion, though.

Corypheus is a human-like character. He walks, he talks, he has a personality (in theory). For human villains, in any genre of fiction, the intracacies of their desires and how they go about fulfilling them are necessary ways of getting the audience to relate to them. They need to empathise with the villain. Understand their feelings and in-depth points of view. The struggles they're going through. Stuff that makes them human. Like Loghain, for example. He's not the best example, but he's pretty decent.

Loghain isn't a villain. He is/was an antagonist. Comparing them doesn't really work. As far as villains in DA go, Cory's probably among if not, the best.

Also, Cory has all of those things, I'm not sure what your point is. 

[AshesEleven]

You say this isn't about his merits as a villain, but it sure sounds like it! I'll give my full opinion, though.

Corypheus is a human-like character. He walks, he talks, he has a personality (in theory). For human villains, in any genre of fiction, the intracacies of their desires and how they go about fulfilling them are necessary ways of getting the audience to relate to them. They need to empathise with the villain. Understand their feelings and in-depth points of view. The struggles they're going through. Stuff that makes them human. Like Loghain, for example. He's not the best example, but he's pretty decent.

This is opposed to the villainous forces of nature like the Darkspawn, which only need to prove how brutal and merciless they are. The Blight is not a human, it is a dark tsunami. No character development is needed, only a visual representation of its formidable power. The Darkspawn and Archdemon do a decent job of this in Origins. You see their brutality everywhere. In fact, as a Darkspawn, Corypheus should be in this category as well.

He is a blend of humanity and the dark forces of nature. Yet, he fails to be a good example of either. His personality and desires go only as far as his blatant goal to be a god and his points of view, his feelings, are all muted. There is little for the audience to relate to. His on-screen humanity is akin to a stick figure. His pure power is also not really shown, as he appears a grand total of three times. You never see him try to rip things apart with his own bare hands, even if the game tries to make him seem that powerful. Thus, the audience has a hard time feeling threatened.

Then there's the quality of his dialogue. So many cliches, all over the place. When you put all this together, then, Corypheus does not seem like a good villain.

 

This is actually a great point.  It feels like they're trying to give him some humanity, but he's got that badass boom to his voice and his one-liners remind me of stereotypical "I am beyond your comprehension" villains.  So there's this confusion of "Huh, well, he sounds like a total boss and like he could destroy me in seconds, but so far he's just thrown me around a bit and now he's whining that I've foiled his plans."  

 

Which is why I think they should have kept the original voice actor.  The new one has a sexy umf to it, but it doesn't really match the character, unfortunately.   

[Fireblader70]

I thought that he actually went beyond this. He talks about how on waking he was shocked to see the world and in particular how far Teviner had fallen. Those strains of Tevinter nationalism made him more "human" than just bwahahahahahahahaha villain. I agree he could have done with more screen time but then again I was thinking about Harbinger who really gets what, one good scene with you - although it is a heck of a scene.

That was a start, but it never goes anywhere after. I'm not sure about the comparison to Harbinger - he wasn't really human, but a talking force of destruction. We don't automatically search for the relatability like we do with humanoid characters. It's all very psychological... but since I don't claim to be a psychologist, I'll stop!

Loghain isn't a villain. He is/was an antagonist. Comparing them doesn't really work. As far as villains in DA go, Cory's probably among if not, the best.
Also, Cory has all of those things, I'm not sure what your point is.

I don't know why you're splitting hairs like that, the point is still the same. Yes it does work to compare the two - Loghain is a humanoid villain/antagonist, Corypheus is a humanoid villain. They should have gotten the same level of character development.

[bluonblu]

I don't mind that he's been introduced in a DLC. If he hadn't been, I think a common complaint would be: oh, but how come we haven't heard of him yet? How credible a threat can he be?

 

That being said, I have to agree that he seemed a much more imposing opponent at first (the scene in Haven is particularly effective), but neither his human nor his monstrous side are shown later on. We're expected to keep believing that he's the biggest threat EVER to Thedas, but he keeps standing by while his army is destroyed, his political machinations are thwarted and the Inquisition wins allies right and left. And only then does he make his move... I'm sorry, but was he having a stupid day? 

 

A much greater worry would be (for me) to see how despite this all-around threat (within the context of the story, anyway) people / elves / Quanari seem to be happy to just keep at each others' throats. What? Band together unless the danger is imminent? What a silly idea... Oddly enough, the dwarves were the only to offer assistance right away, though that may have to do with Bhelen's politics.  

[The Ascendant]

I have no qualms about Corypheus. He's an interesting character with a chilling voice.

[Lianaar]

In my opinion Cory's issue is that he failed to adapt to the changing environment.
He might have had reasons for this prideful and stupid decision. It would have been cool if eg we have been presented for two ways to go, like:
- we noticed Cory's forces splitting one of them heading to the Abor Wilds for a ruin but he and his best people went to a hidden ruin in the Emerald graves. We only have time to catch one of them, which way will you go? Then I know he tried to adapt, and outsmart me. I would have made a decision which is either goor or bad, or how about this:
while he sets foot to find some relics in a given area with his most trusted me, he orders his army to masacre Crestwood and you chose wether to save the people and forget about the relic he is after (alas you must fight his dragon on your own terms with your own people, maybe by finding some real wardens to kill the thing), or you save the people.

 

He didn't offer mental challenges, for your advisors did the outsmarting him instead of you.
Story wise of course you had people who knew him, while he didn't have people who knew you. Oh, that would have been nice too, if he tried to find your friends/relatives and you get an operation needing to rescue them from his clutches.

 

The point is: he was not aiming to destroy you and he didn't apply a good strategics. He was a child throwing tantrum. Might have a logical explanation why, but it took from his power.

 

I still love the game and find it more entertaining then DA:O, but Loghain was giving a feeling to be more of a challenge because you had a feeling you can lose.

 

Edit: oh yes, the voice. I adore his voice