293 réponses à ce sujet

[DaemionMoadrin]

Set Effects Quality to Low; removes the flash and sparkle, makes spells to appear more natural, and improves FPS.

 

Are you serious? I don't even...

[Realmzmaster]

Well, there is a presentation difference. Everyone in DA:O had magic abilities, but the mages got most of the flashy VFX. Rawgrim's talking about feelings rather than the substantive mechanics. I'd be making the same complaint if I was sensitive to this sort of thing.

But if everyone had magicabilities in DAO that completely breaks the lore as written since only mages have a connection to the Fade. Therefore magical abilities. Aslo given that healing in both DAO and DA2 break the lore also. According to the lore healing is like magical surgery and only Spirit healers should be able to heal in combat.

 

The magical abilities of non-mages should come from the equipment. A ranger should not be able to summon an animal from thin air.  I can see the animal traveling as a secondary companion where control is maintained in combat.  The difference is that anyone can become a spell slinger in the D & D universe through study or dedication to a god. Mages in the DA universe have to be born according to lore. Anyone with magical abilities would be considered a mage.

So basically you have gameplay trumping lore (backstory of the world).

 

DA2 actually made sense since Anders was a Spirit healer and in DAO Wynne was a in effect a Spirit healer whereas Merrill and Morrigan  were not, but people complained about Merrill that even though it was right lore wise.

[Bioware-Critic]

OP is generally spot-on. There has actually been a lot of "finding the middle ground" ruining games recently. (GT5 in the preview stages was a great Racing SIM, but people complained that it was "too hard" and they dumbed it down in the final to a hybrid racing sim/arcade game; result - a ruined product, with GT6 following right along). Heck, it ruins a LOT of things because what you get is mediocrity. All too often things just don't work well when you try to build something that will appeal to everyone. You often end up with something that just doesn't do anything well. A lot of people are, I think, just kind of blind to this though and are perfectly happy with mediocre, so in a way, who can blame companies for catering to an audience in which the majority of people aren't discerning anyway? (Clear example from another industry; all-season tires. If you've ever driven with a good set of summer performance tires and a good set of winter tires, you'll never want all-season tires again, because they do everything kind of poorly. You don't get a tire that's a great summer tire and a great winter tire, you get a tire that's a mediocre summer tire and a mediocre winter tire. And while there are a lot of drivers who do understand tires, the vast majority of drivers seem perfectly happy driving on tires which are mediocre in nearly every way, with no understanding that truly GOOD tires can potentially save your life, the life of your family members, the life of others, or the life of that adorable little squirrel confused about where to run...)

 

Key here is that it simply doesn't feel like EA / Bioware understand what made Bioware games so great, or what made Bioware fans love their games so much. If you fundamentally don't understand what made your product great, then doing it right again the next time around becomes a lot more difficult.

 

P.S. And, if you make a game for consoles and PC, that's great. But start with the most capable platform, build to that, and then modify DOWN to the other platforms and everyone will be happy. If you do it the other way around, you're going to make everyone with the more capable platforms angry. (Man was the gaming community angry when Skyrim came out with crappy console-level textures (which Bethesda was good enough to fix)). AND, pay attention to the controls and UI for each platform... I can't imagine the number of sales in the PC-market that EA must have lost because of all the bad reviews, many of which are largely due to the controls, so getting this stuff right is just good business practice!

 

 

@Skeevley

 

I think Bioware and even EA understand what made DA:O's success

and what we prefer as RPG-fans all too well - but they simply don't care for it enough or prioritise it any longer!

 

 

DA:O was made by "Brent Knowles" as far as I know ... And DA:2 as well as DA:I were made by "Mike Laidlaw". He (Laidlaw) has less problems to follow EA's directions which is why he got Knowles' job in the first place! In their money driven worldview and goals, EA/Bioware does not necessarily need to deliver anything better than this "12-headed-beast" we've got here in front of us ... Because for them (at least for EA at times) it is not about the "damn" game anymore! It is about marketshares and potential earnings - which they will never receive, btw, because they underestimate the power all the fans have as consumers!

 

(And I have to say I cannot really blame any market analysts of EA ... The market gets bigger and bigger in the moment. In the future it will maybe suffice to make PR to sell anything to enough people to neglect abolutely every sort common sense! The american market is in this regard 100 times worse than any other market in the world already anyway. And they (the economists) won't stop forcing through this type of strategy because it is simply too covenient for them!)

 

And this is exactly why, we as consumers and fans, have to make a stand, fight back with our wallets and continue to give honest feedback

here in the forums!

The economy guys will never respect anything but money - it is everything they know and this fact will never change! But we can communicate our consumer stance on the terms! Because it is our money they want!

Now I don't doubt Biowares ability to understand us or their ability to make good games. It is just, that they have to change their currently heavily flawed strategy to make oversimplified but very shiny and beautiful games that lack depth and polish to go and try to conquer the whole market!

 

Now I don't have any problem with Mike Laidlaw whatsoever but I do think if he cannot cater to RPG fans and their preferences "all the way" - because he does not want to - maybe somebody like Brent Knowles should be in charge the next time they make an "Origins-successor"! But since the market is getting bigger and the big publishers are getting better at PR every year ... I really don't have any clue what the future will hold for the gaming industry. But I truly think that a good example of the power of the consumer in 2015 and a truly "nourishing food-for-thought" for any gaming-fan is the whole story revolving around the launch of the XBOX ONE ... We made a stand as consumers with our wallets and one of the richest and most influencial companies in the IT world backed down and reversed their whole strategy because a f*uckton of money was on the line! And they care more about money than they care about strategy! This is a lesson consumers have to learn and practice!

 

 

Just sayin' ...

[mutantspicy]

^ I don't think that's 100% fair. It's not that they don't care about us, its that they don't have much of a choice. The PC gaming industry has been suffering for a while now.  When a company gets as big as EA/Bioware has in order to provide AAA content, they need to know they are going to sell well.  This niche market that we all wish they'd support, simply isn't big enough to sustain all of the high end content.  The music production, cinematics, voice acting, etc etc etc.  The truth is in order to make a "AAA" game for PC these days you have market it to console player as well.  Its the only way to get enough coin to support the project.  

[Dakota Strider]

@Realmzmaster:  In regards to non-mages, using "magic" in DAO:  Unless the designers/writers were to tell us how they rationalized those classes, it will be impossible for us to guess exactly what it may be.  I do have some thoughts, that might justify it, and hopefully without going against the established lore.

 

First of all, not all abilities that seem fantastic or supernatural are necessarily impossible without magic.  I have read some people talk about the "ranger radar".  This one is easy.  Rangers are generally known for their tracking skills, and rather making a tedious game mechanic where you snoop around for tracks, look for broken branches and blades of grass, sniff the wind, put your ear to the ground...etc, they put the game mechanic that to us looks like radar, but is actually just a minimap gives a visualization of where a ranger's skills have indicated enemies are.  Obviously a lot slicker than real tracking works, but streamlined (hey, I can use that term, too) to not slow the game down.

 

Regarding a ranger summoning animals.  It could be something as simple as developing a form of animal empathy, and that animals are following him/her around, ready to charge into combat, just waiting for a call.  A little too simplistic for me, and the death toll for those animals would get to be a bit too high.  Instead, I would say that a ranger has developed a sort of bond with a nature spirit.  Not magical...and the ranger is not a vessel for the spirit, like Wynne or Anders was.  Perhaps a creature that is similar to Cole, that can take the shape of animals, as it chooses.  And because of the ranger's bond with nature, chooses to hang around, and take animal form when called.  Perhaps a stretch for some, but I do not think it breaks the lore that we have been taught.

 

Similar type of spirits may bond with certain bards, that seem to display magical ability.  Perhaps these would be spirits of music (on the light side) or spirits of influence (a bit darker).  Bard abilities certainly resemble magic spells, far more than other non mage classes.  But, perhaps with a spirit inhabiting a bard focus item, most likely a musical instrument, it may explain how their song abilities work, within the framework of the laws of magic and spirits.

[Bioware-Critic]

^ I don't think that's 100% fair. It's not that they don't care about us, its that they don't have much of a choice. The PC gaming industry has been suffering for a while now.  When a company gets as big as EA/Bioware has in order to provide AAA content, they need to know they are going to sell well.  This niche market that we all wish they'd support, simply isn't big enough to sustain all of the high end content.  The music production, cinematics, voice acting, etc etc etc.  The truth is in order to make a "AAA" game for PC these days you have market it to console player as well.  Its the only way to get enough coin to support the project.  

I am a console player!  ... primarily anyways ...

 

And I think these professionals know what the are doing and more importantly ...

 

... they know exactly what they are NOT doing!

 

And they try - very calculatingly - to get away with it!

 

That is all I am gonna say to this ...

[otis0310]

^ I don't think that's 100% fair. It's not that they don't care about us, its that they don't have much of a choice. The PC gaming industry has been suffering for a while now.  When a company gets as big as EA/Bioware has in order to provide AAA content, they need to know they are going to sell well.  This niche market that we all wish they'd support, simply isn't big enough to sustain all of the high end content.  The music production, cinematics, voice acting, etc etc etc.  The truth is in order to make a "AAA" game for PC these days you have market it to console player as well.  Its the only way to get enough coin to support the project.  

 

 

While we all know that any AA game must be a cross platform game, I do not think that many of the console uusers like the changes either.  I think the "Niche" RPG market is a lot larger than EA believes it is.   There not many here that like the dumbed down action oriented combat, and I do not think the console users are any different in this regard.  It is just hard for EA to be satisfied with the DAO sales when they see the sales that COD gets.  As a result they get greedy and try to make changes to drag in the COD croud.

 

Of course this fails because those people would just buy another COD game or Battlefield or some other shooter, not an RPG.  EA does not understand the concept of Brand Recognition when it comes to that.  People who like COD won't buy an RPG just because it adds action elements.  They know what the DA series is and it isn't for them, just like adding RPG elements would not make me buy a COD game for the same reason.

 

None of this is what their consumers want.  Not the PC players, and not the console players.  It is just that EA assumes RPGs won't sell, that DAO was a fluke, it was nice that it sold well, very well, but it was just an accident because that genere is dead.   So they make changes to bring in people who like action games.  Unfortunately, I do not have the numbers they have, but I have a strong feeling that they are acting purely out of speculation and vastly underestimating the true size of the market.

[Dakota Strider]

I do believe, that what EA really wanted, was their own World of Warcraft online.  So that is why they acquired Bioware, probably the best fantasy RPG competition to Blizzard, and are trying to position them to take share of that market.  Just a guess, on my part.

[otis0310]

Other than WOW Blizzard does not have much in the way of RPG titles at all, that is mostly Bethesda nowadys.  However, SWTOR was is in production when EA bought them, and I honestly believe that was the game they wanted mre than anything else.  Once they had it, they made the changes they thought were necessary to bring in WOW fans, which, combined with it being released with several features (like group finder) missing in roder to meet a rushed Christmas schedule, led to the games downfall.

 

It seemed that no one wanted to play a game that was basically a direct copy of another game except was missing key features when they could play the other game instead.  Weird that way, isn't it?

[Realmzmaster]

@Realmzmaster:  In regards to non-mages, using "magic" in DAO:  Unless the designers/writers were to tell us how they rationalized those classes, it will be impossible for us to guess exactly what it may be.  I do have some thoughts, that might justify it, and hopefully without going against the established lore.

 

First of all, not all abilities that seem fantastic or supernatural are necessarily impossible without magic.  I have read some people talk about the "ranger radar".  This one is easy.  Rangers are generally known for their tracking skills, and rather making a tedious game mechanic where you snoop around for tracks, look for broken branches and blades of grass, sniff the wind, put your ear to the ground...etc, they put the game mechanic that to us looks like radar, but is actually just a minimap gives a visualization of where a ranger's skills have indicated enemies are.  Obviously a lot slicker than real tracking works, but streamlined (hey, I can use that term, too) to not slow the game down.

 

Regarding a ranger summoning animals.  It could be something as simple as developing a form of animal empathy, and that animals are following him/her around, ready to charge into combat, just waiting for a call.  A little too simplistic for me, and the death toll for those animals would get to be a bit too high.  Instead, I would say that a ranger has developed a sort of bond with a nature spirit.  Not magical...and the ranger is not a vessel for the spirit, like Wynne or Anders was.  Perhaps a creature that is similar to Cole, that can take the shape of animals, as it chooses.  And because of the ranger's bond with nature, chooses to hang around, and take animal form when called.  Perhaps a stretch for some, but I do not think it breaks the lore that we have been taught.

 

Similar type of spirits may bond with certain bards, that seem to display magical ability.  Perhaps these would be spirits of music (on the light side) or spirits of influence (a bit darker).  Bard abilities certainly resemble magic spells, far more than other non mage classes.  But, perhaps with a spirit inhabiting a bard focus item, most likely a musical instrument, it may explain how their song abilities work, within the framework of the laws of magic and spirits.

 

Actually in D & D terms animal empathy would be the best answer or in Fallout there are perks that make certain animals your friend. The first perk certain animals leave the protagonist alone. The second level of the perk has animals fighting for the protagonist.

 

You are correct that Bioware steamlined the tracking abilities of the ranger. Whether that was good or bad is subjective. Some of the other archer abilities like scattershot  and rain of arrows I cannot agree with unless the ranger just became Green Arrow or Hawkeye.

 

The problem with the animal spirit is that the ranger has to call it in DAO instead of the spirit coming when needed. Surely the spirit is keeping an eye on the ranger.

The suggestion on the bard is a real stretch, because living possession usually requires a willing mage unless forced. Most of the other living possessions have to be forced by magic according to lore. It usually results in the forced person becoming an abomination like the templar in DA2.

 

The best answer (IMHO) is that Bioware let gameplay trump lore. Which may be or not be the right decision depending on the gamer.

[Nen_Rx]

I would buy a console, if I enjoyed dumbed down,  games that do not meet the standards I have come to expect.

 

Different strokes for different folks. I built a high end gaming PC about a year and a half ago. Jumped on Steam and Origin and was all pumped up to join the "master race" of gamers. After about 6 months gaming on it... I went back to my 360. Then I bought a PS4. Now my high end gaming PC sits there collecting dust. Sad really... it was fun to build.

 

I was born and raised a console gamer and enjoy it. And even though the graphics blew the consoles out of the water and the command line stuff and mods were really fun (Skyrim was excellent on PC!)... at the end of the day... I just enjoy the console so much more. I could care less if the hardware in my PS4 is that of angaming PC from 2006. It is still more enjoyable to play my games on console than it is for me to play on PC.

[Biotic Flash Kick]

it's a good game

but it has alot of problems

 

and after 100 hours

i kinda felt it was short because alto of that was shard hunting and such

 

:/

[Dakota Strider]

@Realmzmaster:  Sorry if I did not make my point clearly, but I did not intend to say that bards were possessed by spirits.  I meant a spirit that was probably drawn by the music, would accompany the bard...not using the bard as a vessel.  I did suggest, that the spirit might reside within a musical instrument, or other focus.  I admit it may be stretching the lore, even to do that.  But not going to suggest anyone living other than mages could be possessed.  That would open up too many cans of worms.   (Of course, I would not be shocked if Bioware used that as a plot twist in the future.)

[Realmzmaster]

@Realmzmaster:  Sorry if I did not make my point clearly, but I did not intend to say that bards were possessed by spirits.  I meant a spirit that was probably drawn by the music, would accompany the bard...not using the bard as a vessel.  I did suggest, that the spirit might reside within a musical instrument, or other focus.  I admit it may be stretching the lore, even to do that.  But not going to suggest anyone living other than mages could be possessed.  That would open up too many cans of worms.   (Of course, I would not be shocked if Bioware used that as a plot twist in the future.)

 

Except that in DAO Leliana specifically states that Majolaine (her bardmaster) taught her everything she knew about being a bard. Leiliana can also teach the warden if he is a rogue. Also in combat Leliana and Majorlaine have no musical instruments other than their voice. That would seem to require quite a few benevolent spirits who according to Wynne basically do not leave the Fade. 

[CronoDragoon]

There not many here that like the dumbed down action oriented combat, and I do not think the console users are any different in this regard.

They are. I am. You don't appreciate how dreadful Dragon Age Origins played on console. Dragon Age Inquisition handles like a dream in comparison. The combat isn't perfect by any means, but overall it's a big improvement.

[DaemionMoadrin]

They are. I am. You don't appreciate how dreadful Dragon Age Origins played on console. Dragon Age Inquisition handles like a dream in comparison. The combat isn't perfect by any means, but overall it's a big improvement.

 

Dragon Age Origins was developed for PC, so I am not surprised that it played less than optimal on consoles.

DA:I is exactly the other way around, hence our criticism.

[Dakota Strider]

@Realmzmaster:  Never said it was a great theory.  Definitely some holes in it.  There would have to be some stray spirits roaming around.  But...does Wynne, or any of the other mages know everything there is about spirits, and how many might be roaming the world?   We saw in the Alienage of DAO, the burned orphanage, where spirits that could only be called ghosts roamed around (along with a few nasty demons).  Had those "ghosts" even made it to the Fade yet? 

 

Granted, Leliana was taught by another bard.  And for my theory to work, both would have had to have some sort of spirit assisting them.  And any other bard that gained those supernatural talents, would have to have a spirit doing the heavy work as well.  I am guessing that not every bard that received training, received those abilities.  But it is not the "magical" song, that makes a bard in Thedas, especially Orlais.  It is there espionage and people skills.  It may just be a very rare few that gain the spell song (with unseen assistance).  The bards themselves, probably would not even know why they get the powers, they might just think it is following a ritual correctly, and inner strength.

[Sidney]

It really isn't about PC on the controls. The controls for a lot of DAI menus and tac cam stuff are awful as well at least on the X1. With the menus it was like they tried to be different just to be different. I just think in general the UI and controls were a failed bit in the game. The master race need not fear the peasants also suffer.

[Danoniero]

I think It would be great that every single game should be Beta tested by players, just give 2-3 quests that do not spoil much so players would be able to check technical and design aspects of the game, if not just give the damn tech demo, It costs money but If It would be covered and required by law developers would think twice before they make rush decisions, or empty promises. Eventually we can always stop preordering those damn games and

[mutantspicy]

@Realmzmaster:  Never said it was a great theory.  Definitely some holes in it.  There would have to be some stray spirits roaming around.  But...does Wynne, or any of the other mages know everything there is about spirits, and how many might be roaming the world?   We saw in the Alienage of DAO, the burned orphanage, where spirits that could only be called ghosts roamed around (along with a few nasty demons).  Had those "ghosts" even made it to the Fade yet? 

 

Granted, Leliana was taught by another bard.  And for my theory to work, both would have had to have some sort of spirit assisting them.  And any other bard that gained those supernatural talents, would have to have a spirit doing the heavy work as well.  I am guessing that not every bard that received training, received those abilities.  But it is not the "magical" song, that makes a bard in Thedas, especially Orlais.  It is there espionage and people skills.  It may just be a very rare few that gain the spell song (with unseen assistance).  The bards themselves, probably would not even know why they get the powers, they might just think it is following a ritual correctly, and inner strength.

I don't think it has to be that deep honestly. The Bard has always had the ability to inspire with song, and also fascinate(hypnotize) with song.  As a music lover, I will tell you that music is its own magic, no spirits req'd.  That said in the DnD world, bards were always a multiclass of sorts, rogue/wiz/fighter.  Not saying it makes sense for the Bard in DAO to have magic.  I see no reason why a bard with rogue combat skills augmented with songs of inspiration(buff), songs of despair(anti buff), songs of mesmerizing, battlecries to stun, etc would be out of bounds.

[Realmzmaster]

I think It would be great that every single game should be Beta tested by players, just give 2-3 quests that do not spoil much so players would be able to check technical and design aspects of the game, if not just give the damn tech demo, It costs money but If It would be covered and required by law developers would think twice before they make rush decisions, or empty promises. Eventually we can always stop preordering those damn games and

 

In theory it is a good idea except a lot of beta testers never finish nor turn in the necessary bug reports. Also beta testing requires that the person go over the same area after each update. A vast majority of beta testers simply drop out due to different circumstances.. 

[Realmzmaster]

I don't think it has to be that deep honestly. The Bard has always had the ability to inspire with song, and also fascinate(hypnotize) with song.  As a music lover, I will tell you that music is its own magic, no spirits req'd.  That said in the DnD world, bards were always a multiclass of sorts, rogue/wiz/fighter.  Not saying it makes sense for the Bard in DAO to have magic.  I see no reason why a bard with rogue combat skills augmented with songs of inspiration(buff), songs of despair(anti buff), songs of mesmerizing, battlecries to stun, etc would be out of bounds.

 

I have no problem with songs of inspiration. That has always been used through history to raise the spirits and inspire the warriors. But songs that paralyze the body or stun as you say are pushing it.

[mutantspicy]

You don't think people can be hypnotized by music?  Besides that it is a fantasy world afterall.

[Realmzmaster]

@Realmzmaster:  Never said it was a great theory.  Definitely some holes in it.  There would have to be some stray spirits roaming around.  But...does Wynne, or any of the other mages know everything there is about spirits, and how many might be roaming the world?   We saw in the Alienage of DAO, the burned orphanage, where spirits that could only be called ghosts roamed around (along with a few nasty demons).  Had those "ghosts" even made it to the Fade yet? 

 

Granted, Leliana was taught by another bard.  And for my theory to work, both would have had to have some sort of spirit assisting them.  And any other bard that gained those supernatural talents, would have to have a spirit doing the heavy work as well.  I am guessing that not every bard that received training, received those abilities.  But it is not the "magical" song, that makes a bard in Thedas, especially Orlais.  It is there espionage and people skills.  It may just be a very rare few that gain the spell song (with unseen assistance).  The bards themselves, probably would not even know why they get the powers, they might just think it is following a ritual correctly, and inner strength.

 

Warrior abilities actually worked in DAO. Most of warrior specializations had an explanation except for war cry and superiority in Champion and made some sense until Awakening. Awakening unfortunately overpowered all the classes.