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The reason why I (and perhaps others) criticize DAI.


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#101
Shermos

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Developers have to stop making games for the "casual gamer" in an attempt to win mass appeal. Casual gamers don't exist. There are gamers and non-gamers.

 

Hard and compelex games which are arguably aimed at niche audiences can still be popular and sell well. It comes down to how well the game is marketed. Some very good games were marketed poorly and didn't sell well, while some very **** games were marketed very well and sold well.

 

Note to the developers and EA: Dumbing down a game won't gain it mass appeal and $ for you. Good marketing will.



#102
fcedric

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Dragon Age and Mass Effect haven't been "marketed"...

NO TV Pub, no Pub in magazines (i don't buy game magazine)... Those games have made sell record, because of the history, the universe created by Bioware, etc... (et le bouche à oreille - in english : the mouth to ears)

But i agree, i had expected the return of Wardens... Like in ME4 i will expect the return of Shepard Commander in a form or another...

Those game should stay in the Story line, Bioware created a universe, and they should stay straight...

 

My problem with Dragon Age Inquisition is more technical problems than Editorial problems... I totally disagree with Bioware the new NAG tactics system (Tactics for dummies - pour les nuls), the completely poor and limited 8 Spells/capacity max, this is a regression for me...

And there is another thing...

 

Do you remember in DAO/DA2/ME1/ME3 the ending. ? it was an alliance between all the races/factions of Thedas/Universe which have permitted to beat the bad guy (the reapers/the archdemon/Meredith) ... Where is the big ending fight with all the factions we collected during the game... Coryphallus is a boss, like a Elite boss but it is not an archidemon, not even a Meredith Demon, no even a Saren boss... It just a Elite boss we could beat the fingers in the nose...

I loved in DAO the ending, with the dwarves, the dalish, the circle of magies, L1 button -> Call allies (ok i admit i never called them, because i didn't want them to be killed)... it was ... wow "on s'y croyait", i mean it was like if it was real...

May be Darse ending is the best moment of the game, with the walk in the mountains and the talk with the revered mother...

 

In fact except the tactics, the 8 capacity max, the only thing which is missed in DAI is EMOTION...

I remember perfectly, in DAO/ME1/ME2/ME3 sometimes i had chills (j'avais des frissons) because of the "intense emotionnals moments"... Remember the Lady of the Forest and Zatrhian ? Remember the 1st apprentice of Zathrian .? I played in French DAO, and usually the VF isn't very good, miss emotion, but in DAO, French voices was more than perfect... Wynne voice during stories of the old wardens, was ... wow... 

Remember the Spirit in the Sylvan in the forest how interesting this character was ? 

I will return playing to DAO...


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#103
Realmzmaster

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Interesting post OP, but I have to disagree. The design of DAI is far more akin to BG1. I do not feel that Bioware has gone in the wrong direction. IBioware has gone back design wise to what made BG1 successful IMHO.

 

Many posters were complaining about the lack of Stat point allocation. Early crpgs did not allow adding to attributes especially those based on the D & D 2,0 ruleset. The only early crpg that allowed adding to stats was one based on the T & T system called Crusaders of Khazan.

The Fallout series onlu allowed limited stat allocation in the SPECIAL system. Perks made up the bulk of changes to the character. DAI uses skills in much the same manner.

The semi open world is a throwback to BG1.

Limited healing is a throwback to  BG1 and D & D. Healing was limited to potions and the few heraling spells that the cleric class had.

The rest mechanic goes back to BG1. 

 

Bioware started deviating from the "crpg formula" with NeverWinter Nights which eliminated permadeath.

DAO added in regnerating health which is a staple of MMOs. DA2 took that concept further with complete health regen after each battle. DAI is actually bringing it back to BG1 standards.

BG1 was about damage mitigation which is proactive versus damage healing which is reactive.  

 

IMHO, the banter between companions is spot on. The companions are very good.The story is cliched , but then so was DAO's story.

 

For those who state they would pay $100 for DAO2. I am glad to see that passion, but from an economic point of view which one is better. If Bioware prices the game for you at $100 and sells only a million copies that is 100 million. Let's suppose that by changing their game to appeal a little more to attract more buyers Bioware can sell 2 million copies at $60.00 each. Bioware makes 120 million.

Given that EA is a publicly traded company which one do you think the investors are going to expect?

 


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#104
Rawgrim

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Good points by Realmzmaster. BG1 is the game that seems to be the most like DA:I. BG1 minus the tactics and a decent AI for the companions. The exploration is really where the game shines, in my opinion.



#105
AlanC9

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Dragon Age and Mass Effect haven't been "marketed"...
NO TV Pub, no Pub in magazines (i don't buy game magazine)


Really? I'm certain I saw commercials for several of the games. Didn't see print ads in anything but gaming mags, but I never see print ads in non-gaming mags for any game. Plus tons of online ads, which are certainly "marketing."

#106
fcedric

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Good points by Realmzmaster. BG1 is the game that seems to be the most like DA:I. BG1 minus the tactics and a decent AI for the companions. The exploration is really where the game shines, in my opinion.

Please what is BG1 ? Did it exist on PS3/PS4 ? Give us the entire name of this game please !!!

 

Really? I'm certain I saw commercials for several of the games. Didn't see print ads in anything but gaming mags, but I never see print ads in non-gaming mags for any game. Plus tons of online ads, which are certainly "marketing."

 

May be in USA, but in France, Europe, i haven't seen any publicity on TV (and i have more than 50 channels on Astra and Hotbird).. May be you talk about Posters in Game shops ... ? Posters didn't cost too much .. I'm graphic designer, and i create posters and marketing kits, and at least for 50 000 ex, 1 poster cost could be less than 0,1 euro...



#107
AlanC9

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Please what is BG1 ? Did it exist on PS3/PS4 ? Give us the entire name of this game please !!!


Baldur's Gate -- 1 is to distinguish it from the sequel, Baldur's Gate 2 . PC only, 1998. IIRC there are iOS and Android versions around these days, though
 
 

May be in USA, but in France, Europe, i haven't seen any publicity on TV (and i have more than 50 channels on Astra and Hotbird).. May be you talk about Posters in Game shops ... ?



I'm pretty sure I know the difference between watching television in my home and looking at a poster in a game shop. It wasn't worth doing a Francophone edition of the commercials, I guess. I have no idea about posters. I never saw one, but as a PC gamer I have no reason to ever go into a game shop.

Anyway, the real marketing expense would be online stuff, judging from the amount of ads that get pushed at me.

#108
Master Flux

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Pointless thread.



#109
Rawgrim

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Please what is BG1 ? Did it exist on PS3/PS4 ? Give us the entire name of this game please !!!

 

 

May be in USA, but in France, Europe, i haven't seen any publicity on TV (and i have more than 50 channels on Astra and Hotbird).. May be you talk about Posters in Game shops ... ? Posters didn't cost too much .. I'm graphic designer, and i create posters and marketing kits, and at least for 50 000 ex, 1 poster cost could be less than 0,1 euro...

 

BG1 = Baldur's Gate. You must be the only one on a Bioware board that doesn't know this.


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#110
gay_wardens

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But, DA2 showed, that Bioware was starting to take the PC market for granted, and was spending more time trying to build a game that appealed to the console players.  More flash, simpler controls, fewer choices, and going from a realistic style of combat (yes....I know that a game based around magic, is not "realistic", but the beauty of most fantasy swords and sorcery systems is that you do everything just like you would do normally...with the addition of magic) to a more arcade style combat, where every character class jumps and leaps, doing stunts that are normally only possible with hidden wires in Hollywood.  It may have made for a more visually appealing game (for some audiences), but it really started to gut what was always the heart of a CRPG, a tactical combat system that had great roleplay aspects.  As I have stated elsewhere, it was akin to having your partner leaving you, for a bimbo that was impressed with pretty graphics and flashy animations, and was bored or frustrated when confronted with a tactical rpg.

 

This is just a ridiculous statement. It didn't feel that much different from Origins, especially on Nightmare mode. The hate for DA2 is so unwarranted. Stop comparing DA to other RPGs already. You should know by now it's in a category of its own.

 

I agree about Inquisition, but I just can't hate it because the story is still great and the combat is bearable once you get used to it. I don't like it as much as DA2 but the multiplayer makes up for it.

 

I really don't understand the problem people have with DA2... at all...



#111
Rawgrim

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This is just a ridiculous statement. It didn't feel that much different from Origins, especially on Nightmare mode. The hate for DA2 is so unwarranted. Stop comparing DA to other RPGs already. You should know by now it's in a category of its own.

 

I agree about Inquisition, but I just can't hate it because the story is still great and the combat is bearable once you get used to it. I don't like it as much as DA2 but the multiplayer makes up for it.

 

I really don't understand the problem people have with DA2... at all...

 

Stramlined combat, restrictions on classes, restrictions on companion outfits, no being able to affect the outcome of the story at all, spawning enemies raining from the sky, over the top animations, railroaded story.

 

There you go.


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#112
gay_wardens

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Stramlined combat, restrictions on classes, restrictions on companion outfits, no being able to affect the outcome of the story at all, spawning enemies raining from the sky, over the top animations, railroaded story.

 

There you go.

 

Combat was FINE. Unless you're one of those "tactical RPGers" who play on bloody Easy mode without even using the Tactical Camera or switching to other characters, in that case go play a real nice easy game like Farmville and GTFO my Dragon Age.

 

Restrictions on companion outfits? What kind of complaint is that? Seriously, perhaps you'd have a better time playing around with Microsoft Excel or something.

 

The story was great. I just have no comment there because you're dead wrong.



#113
Rawgrim

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Combat was FINE. Unless you're one of those "tactical RPGers" who play on bloody Easy mode without even using the Tactical Camera or switching to other characters, in that case go play a real nice easy game like Farmville and GTFO my Dragon Age.

 

Restrictions on companion outfits? What kind of complaint is that? Seriously, perhaps you'd have a better time playing around with Microsoft Excel or something.

 

The story was great. I just have no comment there because you're dead wrong.

 

Just listed up what people didn't like about DA2. No need to get all emo and take it as a personal attack.


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#114
Dubya75

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I wholeheartedly agree with the OP.

 

I am not here complaining because I have nothing better to do - I am here complaining because I absolutely LOVE Dragon Age. I have played and re-played the previous titles more times than I care to admit. Even DA2 with all its faults still felt like a Dragon Age game.

 

But DAI.....not so much. Yes, they have created the very best looking Dragon Age game ever with an equally EPIC story attached to it. But underneath, that part that makes it a GAME....that part was completely butchered.

And that is the part that really matter, but Bioware seems to have lost sight of this completely.

 

If Ferrari started designing better body work for their cars than ever before, but put in cheap engines and steering, and charge more money to their customer, will it appeal to a larger market? No. It would be the beginning of the end for them.

 

That is exactly what Bioware is doing. And I am very sad to see such an awesome franchise get destroyed like this.


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#115
gay_wardens

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I wholeheartedly agree with the OP.

 

I am not here complaining because I have nothing better to do - I am here complaining because I absolutely LOVE Dragon Age. I have played and re-played the previous titles more times than I care to admit. Even DA2 with all its faults still felt like a Dragon Age game.

 

But DAI.....not so much. Yes, they have created the very best looking Dragon Age game ever with an equally EPIC story attached to it. But underneath, that part that makes it a GAME....that part was completely butchered.

And that is the part that really matter, but Bioware seems to have lost sight of this completely.

 

If Ferrari started designing better body work for their cars than ever before, but put in cheap engines and steering, and charge more money to their customer, will it appeal to a larger market? No. It would be the beginning of the end for them.

 

That is exactly what Bioware is doing. And I am very sad to see such an awesome franchise get destroyed like this.

 

You really need to make more posts like this, that are coherent.

 

Instead of this, "waah waah QQ." Come on man.

 

Yeah we disagree about multiplayer, but I damn well do agree about single player.



#116
scrutinizer

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Interesting post OP, but I have to disagree. The design of DAI is far more akin to BG1. I do not feel that Bioware has gone in the wrong direction. IBioware has gone back design wise to what made BG1 successful IMHO.

 

Many posters were complaining about the lack of Stat point allocation. Early crpgs did not allow adding to attributes especially those based on the D & D 2,0 ruleset. The only early crpg that allowed adding to stats was one based on the T & T system called Crusaders of Khazan.

The Fallout series onlu allowed limited stat allocation in the SPECIAL system. Perks made up the bulk of changes to the character. DAI uses skills in much the same manner.

The semi open world is a throwback to BG1.

Limited healing is a throwback to  BG1 and D & D. Healing was limited to potions and the few heraling spells that the cleric class had.

The rest mechanic goes back to BG1. 

 

Bioware started deviating from the "crpg formula" with NeverWinter Nights which eliminated permadeath.

DAO added in regnerating health which is a staple of MMOs. DA2 took that concept further with complete health regen after each battle. DAI is actually bringing it back to BG1 standards.

BG1 was about damage mitigation which is proactive versus damage healing which is reactive.  . 

Oh, come on. It's an interesting idea, but stretched.

 

Adding stats is different from stats allocation. Correct me if I'm wrong, but BG1 allowed you to create any sort of character you wanted, apart from class restrictions - bard has to have at least x charisma and so forth. These restrictions however do not impair your ability to shape a character that fits your gaming need and strikes you fancy, i.e. a thief with monster strength, or a mage with high wisdom, or a warrior specialized in bows. Moreover, you can dual-class or multi-class, effectively changing the way your character plays - a mage/thief? Go for it. Warrior/druid? No problem. The flexibility offered was sufficient to generate unique builds.

 

Fallout had SPECIAL - limited amount of points to distribute between 7 attributes. From the get-go you can change the amount of points or attributes themselves with traits (gifted, bruiser, small frame). Then, as you mentioned, there are perks every 3 levels, and among these are stat increasing ones. Furthermore, the game itself has many places in which you can increase your stats (surgeries, modules, game story elements).

 

I would not call BG1 a semi-open world. You have a map of the Sword Coast, and this map is completely filled with locations - it's a 1998 open world. Smaller zones of more or less the same size that are connected to each other. The connectivity is crucial here, as the zone to the south is a direct extension of the north zone. This way, the entire Sword Coast is recreated. DA:I has multiple huge zones that are not connected, the world present in the game encompasses Ferelden and Orlais, yet we only get to visit a few small chunks (small in regards to the scale of gameworld) of the world. It's not like BG1. If anything, it more closely resembles BG2, which is set in Amn mostly, but you only get to visit a few locations - Athkatla obviously, de'Arnise stronghold, Trademeet and so forth. Upon release, BG2 received some flak for this approach, as gamers were not happy with the departure from BG1 map system. Even though BG2 has a few locations, they are all tightly connected to the story, unlike certain zones in DA:I.   

 

The limited healing of BG1 results from the fact that yo cleric/druid can only reach level 7, which gives him access to level 3 spells at best. In BG2, pretty much without the level cap, you cleric/druid can be a healing machine. Potions are scarce, especially in the early game.

 

In BG1 the rest mechanic is based on entirely different concept. You rest when your characters are tired (which lowers their die rolls), to replenish your spells/abilities, as they are cast-and-gone kind of thing (there is no cooldown), and to heal your party. You rest because your mages/clerics are useless once they cast all their spells. You rest because your group is one hit from dying.

 

BG1 was about damage mitigation? With what? Protection from evil? Armor spells are useless for high AC characters, making them viable only for mages really, Blur is a solid spell, but requires sacrificing precious 2nd level spells slots (I'd go with Web and Stinking Cloud, for starters). Proper protection spells can only be cast from scrolls (few and far between), unless you have a cleric who memorized them.

Cleric/druid spells have a few more protection options with Barksin, Sancturay for a caster only, Resist Fire and Cold, and Armor of Faith which gets better as you level up. However, these are NOT viable damage mitigation options. They can help you avoid a hit or two, but won't dramatically alter the battle. Keep in mind that if decide to have them memorized, you leave yourself without healing spells, AoE spells, control spells and summons, which usually help tremendously during any battle.

BG2 is more about spells-induced resistances and damage mitigation, but again, it means abandoning the plethora of other, IMO more useful spells.

 

So ultimately, no. Your fancy comparison to BG1 does not hold its ground at all and is far-fetched. There are similarities, sure (you can always find some), but the formula is not even close. 

 

Peace.


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#117
Dakota Strider

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@Realmzmaster:  I totally agree with scrutinizer's rebuttal of your post, in regards to your comparison of BG1 to DAI.  I also want to add that I have played almost every AD&D/D&D licensed CRPG starting with the Gold Box Pool of Radiance games on my old XT clone, up through NwN2, and they were all loyal to the p&p style character creation and customization, allowing the player almost total control of the character build, within the rules of the game.  Yeah, in some of the earlier games, if you wanted to play some of the elite classes like paladin or ranger, you had to meet minimum ability scores to qualify, which may have limited how many points you had left to put in another attribute.  But that was staying true to the rules of which they were licensed.  Within the rules (which were created for game balance in the p&p system), you had the flexibility to create many more unique characters, than you have in any Dragon Age game. 

 

Once again, agreeing with scrutinizer, in that you had far more healing options in any of those games.  A first level cleric could cast Cure Light Wounds, usually three times per rest.  Not unlimited, but balanced enough to make it a challenge.  And, you could choose to rest outside of the designated campsites, albeit, with a chance of being attacked, to regain health that way, also.  

 

Realzmaster, I will concede, that there really seems to be no truly original ideas, anymore.  However, that is true in almost any field.  Today's innovations, in any field, are almost always built upon the innovations of the past.  Hopefully, Bioware will also learn from mistakes of the past, and stop trying to recreate themselves into a franchise that abandons what built them a loyal customer base.



#118
kopez

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You know it is actually feedback from fans that made the game what it is. BioWare just went full ret**d with it.

After DA2, fans wanted big and pretty world (with taccam as second priority) and with EA taking over BW Frostbite 3 was for free. And the game has beautiful world no denying that.

 

Tactical camera is what it is because it is invisible party member (probbably because of Frostbite 3 not allowing that). You cant use it if you cant have companions in area. If you want to approach enemies on higher elevation you need to use stairs with tactical camera... But you wanted tac-cam so they came up with compromise. I would have done the same thing with.

 

I may not have much knowledge about Frostbite but I know it was made for Battlefield. I didnt even support 4 legged creatures. That probbably took a lot of time to develop.

 

Combat is what it is because engine was build to run shooters and I think frostbite will be good for Mass Effect, it is a shooter after all. ME have never been strong on AI companion tactic, they just shoot things, so no problem with that.

 

When they asked what do fans want you should have said we want DAO2 nothing else. Because they would made better combat anyway, better graphic, better everything. Now they just focused on big and pretty world. And the only way you will want to explore it is by giving you a quests to go there, no matter how pointless they are. And now you are not exploring but you just spam search button and you keep your camera focused on the ground. Fans (no offence) stop being so passionate about BW and start thinking logically what do you want.

 

You can play Dragon age games 3 times after that you will be doing the same thing. DAO had 3 diffrent classes and main story has 2-4 main choices per "act" (mages or templars; choose Orzammar king;  Orzammar king with or without anvil; elf or warewolf or compromise; kill or not high dragon; destroy, pour blood in or leave ashes alone; Alistar, Anora or both,... and a choice to say to hell with you i'm leaving and you let all people die bye bye people of Redcliffe)

But exploration has no replay value. Let me explain. I'm form Europe as a turist I have seen Camp Nou biggest active football stadium in Europe. Great now I wont visit it again as turist I have seen it and that is it. I will however go there if there will be Champions league match (lets say Main quest in gaming) or if there will be a good match in Spanish La Liga (good side quest) or I will go there if stadium will host some great music band for example (that is not happening on Camp Nou, but for the sake of the argument it will; in gaming: good mod). So exploration dont really have value in Inquisition. It has in TESO games because of mods and half of ladmarks have a quest especially you want to find Deadric shrines (you are sure you will get good item and you are sure it will be good and weird quest). 

 

 

(Numbers taken from links at the bottom)

BTW: DAO sold 4.73 million copies global. Skyrim 17.81 million but it may be because it is 5th game in franchise and last 2 games were very good and next one will be more or less the same as Skyrim, Oblivion(7.49 million) and Morrowind(2.86 million). Those numbers werent because they dumb the game down, but because they did the same game again. And it looks like people like this, it builds trust. You made first game (DAO) which is very good and sets the gameplay, second game (DA2) that is 60% quality of the first one and third one (DAI) that is weird and diffrent. People dont know what to expect. And when they see EA they think this company is only good for sports games. And why is that? It is because every year you release the same game (with little improvements) and they know what they will get. They dont believe what you tell them, people think you are a rich lying corporation. What matters is what you make, and EA you are making very good sports games.

 

EA/BW if you need some kind of analyst or advisor or even programmer. I have a degree in economics and industrial engineering, I'm learning C# by myself and have two years of work experience.  :)

 

http://www.vgchartz....s=0&results=200

http://www.vgchartz....s=0&results=200


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#119
kopez

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BTW guys just stop complaning it is over, they can fix minor things like m&k and broken arms, sync lips, voice, but they can't do much else it is over. The game is out. It runs on wrong engine, and I'm sure they wont fix mmo quests. Sorry. Just end it. They have enough imput on what is wrong.



#120
Bioware-Critic

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You really need to make more posts like this, that are coherent.

 

Instead of this, "waah waah QQ." Come on man.

 

Yeah we disagree about multiplayer, but I damn well do agree about single player.

 

Stop trolling you MORON! <_<

 

... or I'll whoop yo' ass!


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#121
Unnamed

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Of course, it is over, the game was released and bought already. But people have the right to express them selves. I agree also that they kind of messed up the fighting system, compared to DA 1. Also, I think they underestimated the player with some stupid boring quests in WOW style and with some dialogues that are not realistic or are kind of cliche. Also, the big issue for me is that after lv 12 it kind of became too easy and too monotonous. Anyway, there are great things about playing this game, think of Varric's lines or Morrigan's appearance or for example fighting your first dragon. I ll not talk about itemization, this is not diablo, and I m not sure itis such a big deal, even though I wish it was kind of different. The exploration of course is a problem also because the game has to be HUGE but then it is not replayable as you will not be super thrilled to visit the river in the Emerald Graves twice or to see Skyhold again /since you walked around it 157 times/. I think most "A game" 3 are not what we expect. Third instalments are tricky. For me personally [I know many will shout for this] the only great third instalment of an RPG game is Mass Effect 3. Ofc. I preordered the Witcher, I hope it will be what we expect.



#122
Bocochoco

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I read your entire post and I'd like to say thank you because since I've made an account on this forum I can't make a single post without someone saying how my criticisms are unwarranted and when I call someone out for claiming the game doesn't need work they jump on me. I can be rash and I am the same in person as I am online but there is a level of "say that to my face not on the internet" I've seen on these forums that is worse than certain anonymous image boards I frequent.
I know people have differences of opinion and that's fine but the majority of the people on the DA board are here because they have an issue that is not being resolved.
Also Dragon Age: Minecraft will probably never happen considering Mojangs attitude towards EA but if it did I would probably cop out and buy it lol

Edit: I bought this for PS4 and immediately thought; maybe this would be better on PC...now I am glad I got it for PS4 because it has the best stability. It still crashes regularly but the PC concerns are so much worse. This is a first for Bioware and I blame EA not the Bioware team
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#123
Realmzmaster

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Good points by Realmzmaster. BG1 is the game that seems to be the most like DA:I. BG1 minus the tactics and a decent AI for the companions. The exploration is really where the game shines, in my opinion.

 

 The AI was dumb in BG1.  IMHO, AI can be hard or easy to program depending on the game. Many crpg's AI tend to be inadequate. The only way to overcome dumb AI is to manually control all the companions which tac cam allows in DAI. Tac Cam is not perfect, but I find it serviceable and on par with BG1's isometric view which allowed for its tactics.. 



#124
Marika

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EA is only in this business for the money any passion they had for making quality games was lost many many years ago and sadly enough when the person(s) running the show have no passion for the business anymore that causes the people working for them to eventually loose their passion for it which results in mediocre products.


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#125
Bioware-Critic

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BTW guys just stop complaning it is over, they can fix minor things like m&k and broken arms, sync lips, voice, but they can't do much else it is over. The game is out. It runs on wrong engine, and I'm sure they wont fix mmo quests. Sorry. Just end it. They have enough imput on what is wrong.

 

No it is NOT! Over the course of 6-12 month (hopfully) - especially if there are DLC's coming out - they will be making patches constantly! It is a long distance and it is frustrating for those who cannot play because they are waiting for something to be implemented (I am waiting for weapon-switching), I give you that!

 

But all is not lost ... Not until it's over!

 

But I will buy no DLC's as long as I do not see the appropriate reaction and devotion from Bioware. This much is certain for me as well ...

This company could potentially get a lot of money from me in the future for DA and ME products. I am here to check out if this will be the case.