106 réponses à ce sujet

[zeypher]

Not said it was unplayable but its definitely not optimal when W&S is by itself a better alternative. The thing is though it can be better. But if sword and board is better than 2 handed, what is the point of going 2 handed for dps then.

 

That is my issue as all the damage skills of a 2 handed warrior are conditional, mighty blow is only 200% unless you use it on a knocked down opponent, basic math wise payback does 400% upgraded and 600% when you have taken a hit, that beats out the might blow out of the water as it does more damage and it cools down faster and costs less stamina. 

 

Finally we also have broken detonators, hopefully they will get fixed, but should not have even been broken from the start. Its like there was no combat testing or any balance analysis done.

 

Also that dragon was not the strongest, the ravager is as even then takes us good 5-6 mintues? while a assassin can wipe it away in 20 seconds flat. Something is wrong with the balance of the world, i mean if assassins and rogues in general can kill stuff solo faster, why do we even need warriors. What role do they fulfil now. That is my issue that balance is out of whack as the disparity between offence of warriors to the other classes is on the extreme side. Right now warriors feel unnecessary to dragon age as they serve no purpose. Damage no, Tanking everyone can with easy to get enchants, what role does a warrior actually serve in this game.

 

Now regarding assassins they fit their description, take templar instead magic negating which in earlier games used to be nice 50% or more. This game its 10%, they even lost their bonuses against mages . Hell 2 out of 3 warrior specializations require corrupting the player via lyrium or dragon blood infusion for barely any gains as presented in the game play. Warriors do not match their own lore now and thats the problem. 

 

Sadly this is the trend now, even in 2 an Assassin duellist rogue would break the game again making me question why do i even need warriors and frankly in 2 i didnt even need on for my party.

[Sugram84]

 

A vid made by sinosleep to show blessed blades does not work. Comparing horn of valour and blessed blades both supposed to give 15% damage increase.

 

i think the part VS Demons worked, kind of felt like i did more damage to demons, killed them faster, but no wonder i had hard time a bit, cause blessed blades does not work properly

[Zetrial]

*snip*

 

I would have to agree on everything you said, currently the only detonator that works somewhat well for 2H is whirlwind, but it being on a 24 second cooldown does suck and makes it subpar outside of static cage where it reigns king.

A warriors role in inquisition is pretty much just to survive, damage is for the rogues and control is for the mages. But the caveat with that is that they made combat more action orientated with active defence over automatic, so they give all classes some kind of active defence that allows them to survive, which in the hands of decent players puts the squishier classes on par with the survival experts. Add in silverite and boom, they become even more survivable. While our the difference in our control or damage is not so easily bridged.

[teks]

I would have to agree on everything you said, currently the only detonator that works somewhat well for 2H is whirlwind, but it being on a 24 second cooldown does suck and makes it subpar outside of static cage where it reigns king.

A warriors role in inquisition is pretty much just to survive, damage is for the rogues and control is for the mages. But the caveat with that is that they made combat more action orientated with active defence over automatic, so they give all classes some kind of active defence that allows them to survive, which in the hands of decent players puts the squishier classes on par with the survival experts. Add in silverite and boom, they become even more survivable. While our the difference in our control or damage is not so easily bridged.

This is a dramatic oversimplification. No squishy class is going to become just as survivable just because he plopped on heavy armor, and every class has survival skills that fit their class. Rogues dodge and hide, tanks take it to the face or move aside, mages use magical tricks. It doesn't change the underlying factors that make the class what they are. Rogues can't take vanguard abilities. They can't pick up shields. They will never get 50% damage resistance vs. bows with a skill. Maybe at those stupid high levels things change, but who cares. Saying the end game is broken is like saying the sky is blue.

 

Warriors reavers are DPS monsters. Maybe in the hands of all the best players with all the right gear rogues come out better for DPS. First of all its not surprising that the DPS class comes out as the best DPS class, second off its meaningless for the average player. I can sit in front of enemies spamming dragon rage, and just decimate everything in my path. No fancy dodges, no giving a crap about my health. Just bullrushing and ripping faces off.

 

Sure, now I'm using a sword and shield, but I've switched to two-hand before when I'm willing to bring cassandra, or blackwall. Black and slash is a nice piece of awesome, and I can easily double my dragon claw DPS with the twohanded weapon because it allows me to swing twice as fast.

 

Twohanders have a skill which reduces cooldowns on crit. It really helps reduce cooldown times. IMO twohanders,especially the reavers, are all about that crit chance.

Weaken on crit,

Reduce cooldown on crit.

AOE fear on crit.

 

50% chance to proc all three per swing? Now the mages and the rogues can come complain how thier roles were taken by the warrior.

[zeypher]

I would have to agree on everything you said, currently the only detonator that works somewhat well for 2H is whirlwind, but it being on a 24 second cooldown does suck and makes it subpar outside of static cage where it reigns king.

A warriors role in inquisition is pretty much just to survive, damage is for the rogues and control is for the mages. But the caveat with that is that they made combat more action orientated with active defence over automatic, so they give all classes some kind of active defence that allows them to survive, which in the hands of decent players puts the squishier classes on par with the survival experts. Add in silverite and boom, they become even more survivable. While our the difference in our control or damage is not so easily bridged.

Yup this is the exact issue, what is the role. I hope they balance it if not then i have no more interest in buying any dlc. Honestly as i enjoy playing both assassins and 2 handed warriors and having played both on night mare its kinda painful to see what warriors have become in inquisition. 

[zeypher]

This is a dramatic oversimplification. No squishy class is going to become just as survivable just because he plopped on heavy armor, and every class has survival skills that fit their class. Rogues dodge and hide, tanks take it to the face or move aside, mages use magical tricks. It doesn't change the underlying factors that make the class what they are. Rogues can't take vanguard abilities. They can't pick up shields. They will never get 50% damage resistance vs. bows with a skill.

 

Warriors reavers are DPS monsters. Maybe in the hands of all the best players with all the right gear rogues come out better for DPS. First of all its not surprising that the DPS class comes out as the best DPS class, second off its meaningless for the average player. I can sit in front of enemies spamming dragon rage, and just decimate everything in my path. No fancy dodges, no giving a crap about my health. Just bullrushing and ripping faces off.

 

Sure, now I'm using a sword and shield, but I've switched to two-hand before when I'm willing to bring cassandra, or blackwall. Black and slash is a nice piece of awesome, and I can easily double my dragon claw DPS with the twohanded weapon because it allows me to swing twice as fast.

 

Twohanders have a skill which reduces cooldowns on crit. It really helps reduce cooldown times. IMO twohanders,especially the reavers, are all about that crit chance.

Weaken on crit,

Reduce cooldown on crit.

AOE fear on crit.

 

50% chance to proc all three per swing? Now the mages and the rogues can come complain how thier roles were taken by the warrior.

 

Yea no, im sorry but you speaking out of your ass now, first of all warrior gear barely has any leather offence slots so no idea how you gearing to 50% crit, second those passives you mention even a W&S warrior can take em, third any time you do as a reaver if think they are dps monsters, a assassin can absolutely annihilate it. Infact any rogue spec can out dps a reaver easily. Btw reaver 20 shots you die, dragon rage is bugged surprised you never noticed it.

 

So please stop spreading mis information. I have played a reaver as it was my first class and on nightmare as well. Also gearing up for crti for rogues is pointless as we cannot raise our crit damage easiliy. A warrior due to how stats work is better served going for attack, while rogues for whom dex raises both attack and crit damage, get crit damage easily. So you basically gimped your own reaver by going for your so called 50% crit chance to do 40% more damage, when you could have just gotten 50% attack power and done 50% more damage all the time.

 

Here do this with your reaver, hell even get close to it:

[Zetrial]

This is a dramatic oversimplification. No squishy class is going to become just as survivable just because he plopped on heavy armor, and every class has survival skills that fit their class. Rogues dodge and hide, tanks take it to the face or move aside, mages use magical tricks. It doesn't change the underlying factors that make the class what they are. Rogues can't take vanguard abilities. They can't pick up shields. They will never get 50% damage resistance vs. bows with a skill. Maybe at those stupid high levels things change, but who cares. Saying the end game is broken is like saying the sky is blue.

 

Warriors reavers are DPS monsters. Maybe in the hands of all the best players with all the right gear rogues come out better for DPS. First of all its not surprising that the DPS class comes out as the best DPS class, second off its meaningless for the average player. I can sit in front of enemies spamming dragon rage, and just decimate everything in my path. No fancy dodges, no giving a crap about my health. Just bullrushing and ripping faces off.

 

Sure, now I'm using a sword and shield, but I've switched to two-hand before when I'm willing to bring cassandra, or blackwall. Black and slash is a nice piece of awesome, and I can easily double my dragon claw DPS with the twohanded weapon because it allows me to swing twice as fast.

 

Twohanders have a skill which reduces cooldowns on crit. It really helps reduce cooldown times. IMO twohanders,especially the reavers, are all about that crit chance.

Weaken on crit,

Reduce cooldown on crit.

AOE fear on crit.

 

50% chance to proc all three per swing? Now the mages and the rogues can come complain how thier roles were taken by the warrior.

 

It was meant to be a vast oversimplification, high level armours break down the balance. At lower levels a rogue or mage won't get near a warrior survivability, at higher levels they won't match but they can become durable enough to take minimal damage from most monsters.

Throw on some guard on hit and they get even closer to matching a warrior for survivability because they gain significant damage mitigation while retaining their escape mechanics. The higher items are so overdone defence wise that as you can see in those videos champions are keeping to the death up for significant periods of time, with a Dragon doing at times an extra 300% damage, yet is still unable to beat down a warrior. That reeks of the defensive values in game being silly over powered. All this with those vanguard armour and champion armour boosts with guard not working from the front as they currently only work for non front armour. Yes at this point a mage or rogue would be paste, but they realistically won't ever be in a situation where a Dragon is doing 300% extra damage. I'm not slamming warriors, far from it, I am just against silverite and cross class armours and how they can make poor balance even more of a joke.

 

If you glanced at my earlier post you would see I am not saying 2H is unplayable by a long shot, I am actually promoting 2H playstyle, there are broken features and balance issues that need attention currently. Mighty blow detonations only doing 1 damage, the armour boosts not properly applying to front armour, a balance of cooldown times between W&S and 2H. Unless they wish 2H to only be Reaver or rely on auto attacking. And given this thread is about 2H damage dealing that isn't Reaver I never brought it up. I play a 2H Dwarf and love charging in, using pommel strike and whirlwind and block and slash is a godsend. I even had a nice 3.4k shatter using whirlwind earlier, pretty nice for level 12.. And using the ping trick my auto attacks are nearly as fast as W&S, were it not for that trick 2H without being a Reaver feels exceptionally slow due to the long cooldown of it's attacks, even with flow of battle.

 

Yea no, im sorry but you speaking out of your ass now, first of all warrior gear barely has any leather offence slots so no idea how you gearing to 50% crit, second those passives you mention even a W&S warrior can take em, third any time you do as a reaver if think they are dps monsters, a assassin can absolutely annihilate it. Infact any rogue spec can out dps a reaver easily. Btw reaver 20 shots you die, dragon rage is bugged surprised you never noticed it.

 

So please stop spreading mis information. I have played a reaver as it was my first class and on nightmare as well. Also gearing up for crti for rogues is pointless as we cannot raise our crit damage easiliy. A warrior due to how stats work is better served going for attack, while rogues for whom dex raises both attack and crit damage, get crit damage easily. So you basically gimped your own reaver by going for your so called 50% crit chance to do 40% more damage, when you could have just gotten 50% attack power and done 50% more damage all the time.

 

Here do this with your reaver, hell even get close to it:

 

50% crit would be cakewalk with a Hossberg Twainer, at level 12 using the T2 crafted greataxe while proccing mastercrafted I have 34% crit with the axe giving me 28%. Yes attack% will give 2H more damage per point than crit% but it is still a desired stat due to the amount of on crit abilities a warrior and specifically Reaver can have. Though admittedly I am not a fan of Reavers aoe fear on crit, unless you are going solo and have trouble staying alive it just adds frustration trying to chase down mobs when it does happen.

[zeypher]

**Snip**

 Fair enough, but the point still stands that opportunity cost for raising crit and then crit damage is on the higher side for warriors. Funny thing though those on hit heal and on hit guard are even better for mages an rogues cause they can do multiple attacks at the same time and fill up their guard and their hp. SO on proc set up works better for other classes cause they make more attacks, the defensive attachments also work better on them.

 

All i want it bioware to take a look at warriors and see they messed up, some little love would be nice. 

[teks]

Its really not. twohanders espesially have plenty of opportunity to gear for crit. Aoe abilities proc on hit multiple times, and they proc multiple crits per swing. Dragon rage is aoe and has a fast attack animation, so even better.

aoe fear=bullrush fodder. Weaken on crit is also awesome, and reavers pack a lot of hurt. Compare this situation to dao. The warrior game has improved a ton. I hear just as many posts about tanks being the best class. With their damage resistances they can be invincible without even trying. I dont hear many posts about rogues taking hits to the face.

I never noticed the dragon rage bug. I just spam it at dragons until they die. It doesnt seem to do 5% but even if it does its no biggie to me. Im not saying its the best dps, but warriors can dps. Im not having trouble dpsing a warrior, and i feel a lot of these arguements are only referring to the end game which is the worst part of the game. I havent even played through to level 20, because whats the point?

[zeypher]

Its really not. twohanders espesially have plenty of opportunity to gear for crit. Aoe abilities proc on hit multiple times, and they proc multiple crits per swing. Dragon rage is aoe and has a fast attack animation, so even better.

aoe fear=bullrush fodder. Weaken on crit is also awesome, and reavers pack a lot of hurt. Compare this situation to dao. The warrior game has improved a ton. I hear just as many posts about tanks being the best class. With their damage resistances they can be invincible without even trying. I dont hear many posts about rogues taking hits to the face.

I never noticed the dragon rage bug. I just spam it at dragons until they die. It doesnt seem to do 5% but even if it does its no biggie to me. Im not saying its the best dps, but warriors can dps. Im not having trouble dpsing a warrior, and i feel a lot of these arguements are only referring to the end game which is the worst part of the game. I havent even played through to level 20, because whats the point?

I really have to question then why are you even contributing to this thread, you have not even played a warrior to the high levels but you do keep posting to suggest you know about it. The dragon rage is easily noticeable especially if you play on the higher difficulties. Another this is this thread is looking at damage specifically for warriors and especially when you put them next to other classes.

[teks]

Wether i choose to play to high levels hardly dictates how much i know. I choose not to play it because there is nothing left to learn nor is there anything challenging left to do. Id argue that playing to high levels has spoiled your pov since your basing your opinion on the least important state of the game, and swaying others opinions based on the end game situation is deceptive and in no way helps them with the portion of the game they would need help in.

I kniw you have more experience then me, but it takes more then boasting this fact. My challenging your opinion gives you the opportunity to defend its logic, and is the only way we learn.

[teks]

Double post

If you dont mind, the thing that gets me most is the praise for the warriors in origins and da2. Nearly the entire 2h tree was broken. It was just awful. Sword and shield wasnt much better. The class couldnt do anything besides sit in front and take hits. Its appauling when you look at mods and see just how much twohand stuff didnt work back then.
So i this game, with warriors that can actively be played i dont see how it can be said they got shafted. Some of thier skills are just crazy good, like shield wall, payback strike, shield bash, turn the bolt. Frankly im estatic just in the fact that i can play twohander at all. As long as another tank nabs up all most the agro he isn't half bad in both the hands of the ai and in the player.

meanwhile its the mages that got the shaft. They lost so much in inquisition, and have nothi g returned to make up for it. They went from indomitable best class in the set to mindless button spam.

[Sugram84]

[Alren]

with Varric I currently have 86% crit chance, I used regular bear hide in my pommel, so I could boost that up a few more points with great bear hide. I am also running over 100% crit damage. Thanks to the Flow of battle Passive my CDs come back very fast. When i am whirlwinding on a rather large pack of enemies with Walking Fortress up, Flow of Battle passive and Seige breaker passive pretty much means I can nearly chain cast walking fortress. Also, hidden blades on hit masterwork is amazing. 

 

[Zetrial]

Its really not. twohanders espesially have plenty of opportunity to gear for crit. Aoe abilities proc on hit multiple times, and they proc multiple crits per swing. Dragon rage is aoe and has a fast attack animation, so even better.

aoe fear=bullrush fodder. Weaken on crit is also awesome, and reavers pack a lot of hurt. Compare this situation to dao. The warrior game has improved a ton. I hear just as many posts about tanks being the best class. With their damage resistances they can be invincible without even trying. I dont hear many posts about rogues taking hits to the face.

I never noticed the dragon rage bug. I just spam it at dragons until they die. It doesnt seem to do 5% but even if it does its no biggie to me. Im not saying its the best dps, but warriors can dps. Im not having trouble dpsing a warrior, and i feel a lot of these arguements are only referring to the end game which is the worst part of the game. I havent even played through to level 20, because whats the point?

 

On the aoe fear, yes it is great for bullrush but when I am using whirlwind in a pack, the last thing I want is for them all running away. It's purely quality of life, it has uses but it can be frustrating.

[teks]

Yeah. Ive been trying to build a party around it. Dorian with fire, varric for the crit bonuses, and 2 reavers. Its...interesting. its easy to tank when nothing hits ya. I see the point with dragon taking 5% health. I think its working as intended. A lot of the cards have incorrect details, and i wonder if the people who write those did so without proper communications with the programmers. I think i just got lucky with the weapons and upgrades for my warriors crit chance.

[Shevy]

with Varric I currently have 86% crit chance, I used regular bear hide in my pommel, so I could boost that up a few more points with great bear hide. I am also running over 100% crit damage. Thanks to the Flow of battle Passive my CDs come back very fast. When i am whirlwinding on a rather large pack of enemies with Walking Fortress up, Flow of Battle passive and Seige breaker passive pretty much means I can nearly chain cast walking fortress. Also, hidden blades on hit masterwork is amazing. 

 

Yeah, but your ATP seems to be really low, crit isn't all. My 2H on Level 21 has 95% ATP at 41% crit with Varric and 69% crit damage. Damage wise ATP on the warrior is key, while crit is nice to trigger passives. Going full crit and crit damage tanked my damage output immensly.

[sethroskull79]

Pardon my ignorance but what is ATP?  Terrible with acronyms.

[Shevy]

Attack Power (or how it is called in the English version. Playing with German client). Old WoW habit of mine to use ATP as acronym for it I guess. The stat which is increased through strength.

[teks]

I'm not sure how he is tanking his damage. He crits with nearly every hit, and his crits do 117% more damage. This is multiplied by attack %, and crits proc additional passives.

Sunder on crit, cooldown reduction on crit, weaken on crit.

 

With his high crits he is getting a 1 second cooldown per crit on all of his abilities, which is a huge boost to both his damage output and survivability. The armor reduction on top of this also adds a lot to his damage output, and the stacking weaken helps compensate for the lack of a shield.

[teks]

What sucks is that a lot of the great +crit weapons are random loot, but there are ways around that besides luck. Some of the twohander weapons can get some really impressive crit bonuses.

 

Tier 2

Maul of the dragon, the jagged battleaxe, the greatsword of the dragon,and the wide greatsword have 6 leather offence slots.

The masterwork and regular dwarven maul have 7 leather offence slots.

Tier 3

The war hammer has 12 leather offence slots.

The ornate battleaxe has 12 leather offence slots

 

Then add the upgrades.

The firm pummel at val royal adds 6 leather offense slots, and there are a great variety of hafts and grips with leather offense slots.

[Shevy]

I tested a high crit/crit damage build myself and your base damage is so low that the multiplier doesn't add up well. You can reach ~ 40% crit and 70% crit damage wiith around 90% attack. While you're not reducing your cd's as fast as with the crit build you can shred through everything with Dragon Rage. It's not like one has to completely resign crit to improve attack rating. 40% is more than enough.

 

Maybe he likes the faster cd's better, but out of a damage view there isn't a need to go at 80% crit. It's the same mistake (imo) players did in vanilla WoW with the warrior. Pumping crit and neglecting base damage and in the end doing way less overall damage. I think in DA:I it's more a point of preference (cd time vs. damage), but I would choose attack rating every time.

[teks]

Maybe hes not a reaver. Cooldown reduction doesn't mean much for a reaver, though a good player could take advantage of bull rushing much more often. Its easy to get a good attack bonus elsewhere, like with the right armor and upgrades to it. The kicker is that crit damage is multiplicative with attack bonus damage.

[Shevy]

Sure it's multiplicative but there isn't much to multiplicate from a low base. I would guess his attack rating on ~60% evaluating from the stat bar and his main hand damage is 23 under the high t3 weapons.

 

Important sidenote: I don't want to blame you Alren, but your screen was just a nice way into the crit vs. atp discussion. I've seen "max crit on warriors" posts everywhere but my own builds (and I own nearly every schematic in the game) with crit weren't that awesome as many indicated.

[teks]

My edit didn't save for some reason. I meant to add that your 40% crit chance is totally more then enough. Its all about that sweet spot between attack bonus and crit chance.