223 réponses à ce sujet

[TheKomandorShepard]

Old system didn't worked because it was done poorly and had little control over mages plus we had corrupted and incompetent individuals in charge of it like last divine.Pretty much there is good reason why leliana epilogue have big "for now".Pretty much kirkwall already proved even with templars mages had enough freedom to cause damage orsino is pretty much great example of that.Under leliana corrupted mages like uldred or orsino will have paradise to do as please and that will lead to disasters and corruption.

 

Best divine for templars is Cassandra as leliana allows peoples like orsino function and well viv is orsino on the top of system.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Old system didn't worked because it was done poorly and had little control over mages plus we had corrupted and incompetent individuals in charge of it like last divine.Pretty much there is good reason why leliana epilogue have big "for now".Pretty much kirkwall already proved even with templars mages had enough freedom to cause damage orsino is pretty much great example of that.Pretty much under leliana corrupted mages like uldred or orsino will have paradise to do as please and that will lead to disasters and corruption.

Actually, pretty much all endings give mages more freedom and have limits imposed on the Templars. Vivienne gives mages more freedom and the Templars are leashed. Cassandra reforms the Circles so that mages get more freedom and Templars are reformed to actually protect mages instead of being jailers, and Leliana straight up gives mages independence and disbands the Templars.

 

The fact that none of the Divines return the system to how it used to be clearly indicated that the previous system was broken. Mages had too little freedom and the Templars were too strict. 

 

Also, there is no "for now" in Hardened Leliana's ending which says unity is maintained but people are killed. You also forget that Cass' Divine ending has the words "if it can last." 

[TheKomandorShepard]

Actually, pretty much all endings give mages more freedom and have limits imposed on the Templars. Vivienne gives mages more freedom and the Templars are leashed. Cassandra reforms the Circles so that mages get more freedom and Templars are reformed to actually protect mages instead of being jailers, and Leliana straight up gives mages independence and disbands the Templars.

 

The fact that none of the Divines return the system to how it used to be clearly indicated that the previous system was broken. Mages had too little freedom and the Templars were too strict. 

 

Also, there is no "for now" in Hardened Leliana's ending which says unity is maintained but people are killed. You also forget that Cass' Divine ending has the words "if it can last." 

Sadly this is why i said best not good all 3 candidates for me suck cass just less than two others.Cassandra don't give mages more freedom she reforms templars and circle from what i know freedom are viv and lel endings where viv gives them more freedom leliana gives them total freedom.

 

And not rly yes system was broken but not because it gave mages too little freedom it was horrible in terms of controlling them , if mages didn't had freedom orsino and uldred wouldn't be able pull their crap and it is prove that in fact mages had enough freedom to become corrupted.

 

And no it is about chantry unity not about mages she gets and "for now it is working" in every case.

[thesuperdarkone2]

Sadly this is why i said best not good all 3 candidates for me suck cass just less than two others.Cassandra don't give mages more freedom she reforms templars and circle from what i know freedom are viv and lel endings where viv gives them more freedom leliana gives them total freedom.

 

And not rly yes system was broken but not because it gave mages too little freedom it was horrible in terms of controlling them , if mages didn't had freedom orsino and uldred wouldn't be able pull their crap and it is prove that in fact mages had enough freedom to become corrupted.

 

And no it is about chantry unity not about mages she gets and "for now it is working" in every case.

DA2 was a perfect example of why treating mages like prisoners was NOT a good idea since it encourages them to do anything for freedom. Would you be okay being place in essentially a prison where you had no rights and could be beaten or raped simply for existing? 

 

Also, you forget that Cass outright says that if she becomes Divine she intends to reform the Circle by allowing mages to govern themselves with help and having the Templars be protectors of the innocent, not mage jailers

 

http://youtu.be/LjNA...P2DxWg?t=3m24s 

 

 

Imposing more restrictions winds up causing more problems than it solves. Face it, the devs clearly indicate that imposing restrictions was wrong. Therefore, your viewpoint is wrong.

[Steelcan]

Cassandra is the best for both IMO, she understands that the old system had major flaws, and the Seekers dropped the ball hard

 

Leliana is too far in one direction, Vivienne isn't enough

[Br3admax]

Anyone not named Leliana. 

[thesuperdarkone2]

Cassandra is the best for both IMO, she understands that the old system had major flaws, and the Seekers dropped the ball hard

 

Leliana is too far in one direction, Vivienne isn't enough

The circle system originally started that way with mages willingly going to circle and the Templars protecting them. However, it changed into what it is now. I think Cass' reforms may work in the short run but eventually power corrupts and the Templars will likely go back their old ways and the whole system will go back to how it used to be. I consider the only way to stop this is to permanently change it. The mages govern themselves and the remaining templars will likely go on with the lives or join Leliana's new seeker order. 

[Steelcan]

The circle system originally started that way with mages willingly going to circle and the Templars protecting them. However, it changed into what it is now. I think Cass' reforms may work in the short run but eventually power corrupts and the Templars will likely go back their old ways and the whole system will go back to how it used to be. I consider the only way to stop this is to permanently change it. The mages govern themselves and the remaining templars will likely go on with the lives or join Leliana's new seeker order. 

and I'm not willing to hand over complete autonomy to the mages for a variety of reasons, but even I can see they can't stay in the old system forever

[Valerius]

People need to stop fussing over Leliana. Mage freedom ending was leaked a year before the game's release. It wasn't rushed, it was always meant to be part of DA:I epilogue. I always saw Nobles to be more dangerous than mages and they would roughly be the same number and they can have more power than mages. I mean the south is ruled by tarts with fancy crowns who think they are better than anyone else and they think they are more able to rule the masses than mages. I'm not suggesting mages should rule Thedas, but you gotta admit magic is not the only power that's dangerous. If you fail at politics at the ball, the game is as over and Corypheus wins. That's the power I'm talking about. Not even the strongest magic can cause that.

Mages can police themselves. You make Leliana Divine, side with Mages and encourage Cassandra to rebuild the Seekers with better ideals and goals. Templars will become seekers who can be called upon for anything as the order now stands for "Justice for all" and that includes the mages as well. This whole rebellion proved the old system didn't work and the paranoia that mages might become possessed killed as much as all mages becoming possessed all at once. The issue was not as small as leashing Templars and giving slightly more freedom to mages inside the circles. That's how the circle were at the beginning! Read the WOT people. Then the chantry and templars started cracking down harder until mages were needed, like in a blight. After victory they were given more freedoms only to be taken away again later. Not to mention a circle like Kirkwall's was allowed to exist.

The way it sounds the new seekers are ten times better than any epilogue for Templars. And with Leliana they get the highest number of recruits.

What happens to the inquisition then? The templar ending is arguably just as good considering that the templars choose to remain with the inquisition where they are under the command of cullen. The reason i chose templars were because the inquisition had to be trusted by southern thedas and recruiting the templars (an established order that was respected by the people of thedas) seemed a better way to gain their trust over allying with rebel mages in a time where magic was feared more than ever. The Leliana ending is good for the epilogue, what I am wondering however is if it is any different if you side with The mages or the templars. (Both with leliana as divine)

[thesuperdarkone2]

What happens to the inquisition then? The templar ending is arguably just as good considering that the templars choose to remain with the inquisition where they are under the command of cullen. The reason i chose templars were because the inquisition had to be trusted by southern thedas and recruiting the templars (an established order that was respected by the people of thedas) seemed a better way to gain their trust over allying with rebel mages in a time where magic was feared more than ever. The Leliana ending is good for the epilogue, what I am wondering however is if it is any different if you side with The mages or the templars. (Both with leliana as divine)

Well apparently if you side with the Templars and get Leliana as Divine, the Circles and the Templar Order are disbanded so the Templars either leave the Inquisition to join mercenary bands or the Orlesian army, or decide to stay with the Inquisition and join Cass' Seekers. I also find it interesting that if you ally with the Templars and get Leliana as Divine, Leliana is the one to reform the Seekers, not Cass:

 

[TheKomandorShepard]

DA2 was a perfect example of why treating mages like prisoners was NOT a good idea since it encourages them to do anything for freedom. Would you be okay being place in essentially a prison where you had no rights and could be beaten or raped simply for existing? 

 

Also, you forget that Cass outright says that if she becomes Divine she intends to reform the Circle by allowing mages to govern themselves with help and having the Templars be protectors of the innocent, not mage jailers

 

http://youtu.be/LjNA...P2DxWg?t=3m24s 

 

 

Imposing more restrictions winds up causing more problems than it solves. Face it, the devs clearly indicate that imposing restrictions was wrong. Therefore, your viewpoint is wrong.

Da 2 was example what happens if you don't control mages as i said if orsino was such prisoner how he could actively support blood mage serial killer undetected same for any other mages in krikwall and pretty other circles like in ferelden.You can be beaten and raped by city guard hell it even happens in our times done by police and yet it is better have police than not .

 

What doesn't mean mages will have more freedom they still will be governed by templars (pretty much what old system was supposed to be) and just prob have more rights in circle than before.As i said old sytem was bad because it did poor job in terms of controling mages sadly every divine instead making more effort to control them in proper way went in another direction.

 

So not rly it is saying that imposing laws cause more problems that it is solving because authorities can abuse others...

[thesuperdarkone2]

Da 2 was example what happens if you don't control mages as i said if orsino was such prisoner how he could actively support blood mage serial killer undetected same for any other mages in krikwall and pretty other circles like in ferelden.You can be beaten and raped by city guard hell it even happens in our times done by police and yet it is better have police than not .

 

What doesn't mean mages will have more freedom they still will be governed by templars (pretty much what old system was supposed to be) and just prob have more rights in circle than before.

 

So not rly it is saying that imposing laws cause more problems that it is solving because authorities can abuse others...

Kirkwall was a prime example of how being incredibly restrictive causes problems. Practially every character that mentions Kirkwall admits that what Meredith did was bad. Face it, restrictions don't work and only cause even more unrest. In fact, it's said that the more restrictions that were placed on the mages in Kirkwall, the more the mages fought back and thus had the Templars inflict more restrictions until everything came crashing down.

[Steelcan]

Kirkwall was a clusterf*ck on both sides, lunatics in charge of the templars, can't go three steps without finding a blood mage

 

maybe putting a Circle in a place where the Veil is that thin was a poor idea

[Br3admax]

It's too bad the only way that place gets the sacking it deserves is letting Anders live. I wonder if marrying Sebastian to Hawke will have the same outcome.

[TheKomandorShepard]

Kirkwall was a prime example of how being incredibly restrictive causes problems. Practially every character that mentions Kirkwall admits that what Meredith did was bad. Face it, restrictions don't work and only cause even more unrest.

As i said answer my question then we can talk about how controlling mages don't work.Kirkwall and circle system was example where law simple didn't worked not because mages need freedom only because it was badly executed and system in itself gave too much freedom to mages (thus orsino and uldred like mages). 

[thesuperdarkone2]

It's too bad the only way that place gets the sacking it deserves is letting Anders live. I wonder if marrying Sebastian to Hawke will have the same outcome.

Nope. Apparently Sebastian is only the Chantry advisor to Starkhaven rather than the Prince if Anders dies. Also, if you help Sebastian annex Kirkwall, he only takes control of part of the city rather than the whole thing.

[Steelcan]

nah the last thing it needs is more bloodshed, kill Anders, and let Sebastian take over peacefully

[Battlebloodmage]

I think ally with the templars will push the divine closer to Vivienne and Cassandra. It's harder to get Lelianna elected. Between Vivienne and Cassandra, Cassandra is a better candidate since she's a seeker of truth which is basically templars without lyrium. She can help them get over the lyrium addition and join the rank of seekers.

[Br3admax]

Nope. Apparently Sebastian is only the Chantry advisor to Starkhaven rather than the Prince if Anders dies. Also, if you help Sebastian annex Kirkwall, he only takes control of part of the city rather than the whole thing.

I mean in the long run. There's still time. 

 

nah the last thing it needs is more bloodshed, kill Anders, and let Sebastian take over peacefully

Whatever man. Time to press format and start over. Defragmenting is pointless. 

[Lulupab]

Old system didn't worked because it was done poorly and had little control over mages plus we had corrupted and incompetent individuals in charge of it like last divine.Pretty much there is good reason why leliana epilogue have big "for now".Pretty much kirkwall already proved even with templars mages had enough freedom to cause damage orsino is pretty much great example of that.Under leliana corrupted mages like uldred or orsino will have paradise to do as please and that will lead to disasters and corruption.

 

Best divine for templars is Cassandra as leliana allows peoples like orsino function and well viv is orsino on the top of system.

 

There is no "for now" in hardened Leliana epilogue. Unity is maintained permanently.

[Lulupab]

What happens to the inquisition then? The templar ending is arguably just as good considering that the templars choose to remain with the inquisition where they are under the command of cullen. The reason i chose templars were because the inquisition had to be trusted by southern thedas and recruiting the templars (an established order that was respected by the people of thedas) seemed a better way to gain their trust over allying with rebel mages in a time where magic was feared more than ever. The Leliana ending is good for the epilogue, what I am wondering however is if it is any different if you side with The mages or the templars. (Both with leliana as divine)

 

Templars are disbanded and join Cassandra's Seekers. I don't see how that's bad.

 

Kirkwall was a clusterf*ck on both sides, lunatics in charge of the templars, can't go three steps without finding a blood mage
 
maybe putting a Circle in a place where the Veil is that thin was a poor idea

 
Sure but if there is a riot in prisons the first thing that happens is warden getting fired. No steps were taken to calm things down and both sides were allowed to go at teach other. The Chantry's solution was waiting and sending an exalted march and it couldn't even do that. The Chantry and the old circle system gets more blame than mages and templars.

[Lulupab]

I mean in the long run. There's still time. 
 
Whatever man. Time to press format and start over. Defragmenting is pointless.

The Free marches states annexed each other a lot of times but it was always freed because rebellion came after rebellion. The free marches is meant to be made of independent city states. All greedy rulers failed in history of Thedas and Sebastian is no different. He is out of luck.

[Master Warder Z_]

There is no "for now" in hardened Leliana epilogue. Unity is maintained permanently.

Horse****.

It's maintained until she crosses the line enough to be replaced or killed.

Go on Leliana go ****** off Gaspard I dare you.

That Cathedral won't stand up to a good trebuchet.

[Warden Commander Aeducan]

There is no "for now" in hardened Leliana epilogue. Unity is maintained permanently.

Pardon me, but Bull ****. 

 

There is no such thing as permanent happy ending where everyone hold hands and sing the song of peace. You can't fool me. Here is what it said in un-hardened Leliana Divine ending.

 

"She meet with their leaders, urging unity. Miraculously her words take root, and - for now - the Chantry remains strong."